Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following: the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information. 1. *Personally identifiable information* (PII) is any data that could potentially *identify* a specific individual. Any *information* that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII. -- *Terri Stumme* *Intellligence Analyst*
Hi Terri, always keep in mind that currently providers have an absolute right to refuse disclosure for any reason. So we as a working group are not taking anything away from complainants but rather debating how much providers should be required to give, and under which circumstances. The default of the status quo is "nothing". As to your proposal, I see several issues with it. First is that "solely" is not really that different from "only", so none of my concerns as discussed previously are addressed. Even if the complaint is 95% about something else and only 5% about the alleged violation, this would tie the providers hands. I therefore propose we stick to "mainly"... I am also unsure what "contravening PII" would mean as it is not the PII that is circumvented, but rather the anonymity of said PII. I like the definition of PII proposed though... Best, Volker Am 14.04.2015 um 17:34 schrieb Terri Stumme:
Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following:
the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information.
1. *Personally identifiable information* (PII) is any data that could potentially *identify* a specific individual. Any *information* that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII.
-- /Terri Stumme/ /Intellligence Analyst/
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
I have no objection to utilizing the term mainly. Regarding "contravening PII" we are talking about both privacy and proxy. Maybe another term for contravening? On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net
wrote:
Hi Terri,
always keep in mind that currently providers have an absolute right to refuse disclosure for any reason. So we as a working group are not taking anything away from complainants but rather debating how much providers should be required to give, and under which circumstances. The default of the status quo is "nothing".
As to your proposal, I see several issues with it. First is that "solely" is not really that different from "only", so none of my concerns as discussed previously are addressed. Even if the complaint is 95% about something else and only 5% about the alleged violation, this would tie the providers hands. I therefore propose we stick to "mainly"...
I am also unsure what "contravening PII" would mean as it is not the PII that is circumvented, but rather the anonymity of said PII. I like the definition of PII proposed though...
Best,
Volker
Am 14.04.2015 um 17:34 schrieb Terri Stumme:
Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following:
the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information.
1. *Personally identifiable information* (PII) is any data that could potentially *identify* a specific individual. Any *information* that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII.
-- *Terri Stumme* *Intellligence Analyst*
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing listGnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
-- *Terri Stumme* *Intellligence Analyst*
I think that "accessing" should work... Best, Volker Am 14.04.2015 um 17:54 schrieb Terri Stumme:
I have no objection to utilizing the term mainly. Regarding "contravening PII" we are talking about both privacy and proxy. Maybe another term for contravening?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>> wrote:
Hi Terri,
always keep in mind that currently providers have an absolute right to refuse disclosure for any reason. So we as a working group are not taking anything away from complainants but rather debating how much providers should be required to give, and under which circumstances. The default of the status quo is "nothing".
As to your proposal, I see several issues with it. First is that "solely" is not really that different from "only", so none of my concerns as discussed previously are addressed. Even if the complaint is 95% about something else and only 5% about the alleged violation, this would tie the providers hands. I therefore propose we stick to "mainly"...
I am also unsure what "contravening PII" would mean as it is not the PII that is circumvented, but rather the anonymity of said PII. I like the definition of PII proposed though...
Best,
Volker
Am 14.04.2015 um 17:34 schrieb Terri Stumme:
Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following:
the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information.
1. *Personally identifiable information* (PII) is any data that could potentially *identify* a specific individual. Any *information* that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII.
-- /Terri Stumme/ /Intellligence Analyst/
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
-- /Terri Stumme/ /Intellligence Analyst/
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Terry, I much prefer the original language since we are also working with the privacy and speech protections also of political groups, battered women's shelters, minority religious groups, Mom- and home-based small businesses, etc. -- the wide array of legitimate groups, organizations and businesses that use proxy/privacy providers. Best, Kathy :
Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following:
the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information.
1. *Personally identifiable information* (PII) is any data that could potentially *identify* a specific individual. Any *information* that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII.
-- /Terri Stumme/ /Intellligence Analyst/
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
Hi Kathy, How does Terri's language exclude those groups? Thanks, Kiran From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 9:01 AM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) Terry, I much prefer the original language since we are also working with the privacy and speech protections also of political groups, battered women's shelters, minority religious groups, Mom- and home-based small businesses, etc. -- the wide array of legitimate groups, organizations and businesses that use proxy/privacy providers. Best, Kathy : Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following: the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information. 1. Personally identifiable information (PII) is any data that could potentially identify a specific individual. Any information that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII. -- Terri Stumme Intellligence Analyst _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
PII and this definition relates to individuals. If the proxy registration is for a battered women's shelter, the address and phone number do not relate to an individual or at least do not lead to the identification of an individual. I think using PII (which is different from PI, and not what is usually found in data protection law) leads us into waters that we dont need to enter. We must remember that proxy services are used for groups, even companies. Stephanie P On 2015-04-14 12:03, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote:
Hi Kathy,
How does Terri’s language exclude those groups?
Thanks,
Kiran
*From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathy Kleiman *Sent:* Tuesday, April 14, 2015 9:01 AM *To:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5)
Terry, I much prefer the original language since we are also working with the privacy and speech protections also of political groups, battered women's shelters, minority religious groups, Mom- and home-based small businesses, etc. -- the wide array of legitimate groups, organizations and businesses that use proxy/privacy providers. Best, Kathy
:
Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following:
the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information.
1.*Personally identifiable information* (PII) is any data that could potentially *identify* a specific individual. Any *information* that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII.
--
/Terri Stumme/
/Intellligence Analyst/
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All: As the original drafter of the III(C)(5) language that we're debating, I'm concerned that we've moved far away from the original purpose behind the language. So with that, and in the hopes of bridging the divide that has sprung up as to whether the final term at the end of the clause should be "human rights," or "privacy rights," or "privacy", or "PII" - what if we instead went with: (5) that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific information, facts, and/or circumstances showing that the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details for some other purpose unrelated to addressing the alleged infringement. Again, that gets to what III(C)(5) is really meant to address: the edge-case examples that Kathy and others have put forward of a Requestor submitting a pretextual complaint in order to get information about a battered women's shelter, minority religious group, anti-gang advocacy group, etc. Yet it also addresses the concerns that Volker and others have raised about including the term "human rights." From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Perrin Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 12:17 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) PII and this definition relates to individuals. If the proxy registration is for a battered women's shelter, the address and phone number do not relate to an individual or at least do not lead to the identification of an individual. I think using PII (which is different from PI, and not what is usually found in data protection law) leads us into waters that we dont need to enter. We must remember that proxy services are used for groups, even companies. Stephanie P On 2015-04-14 12:03, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote: Hi Kathy, How does Terri's language exclude those groups? Thanks, Kiran From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 9:01 AM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) Terry, I much prefer the original language since we are also working with the privacy and speech protections also of political groups, battered women's shelters, minority religious groups, Mom- and home-based small businesses, etc. -- the wide array of legitimate groups, organizations and businesses that use proxy/privacy providers. Best, Kathy : Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following: the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information. 1. Personally identifiable information (PII) is any data that could potentially identify a specific individual. Any information that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII. -- Terri Stumme Intellligence Analyst _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
All: For ease of comparison, below is the original III(C)(5) language that I proposed, with the changes in the new proposal highlighted. Thanks. * Original: that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific evidence demonstrating that the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details for the purpose of contravening the Customer's human rights. * New: that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific information, facts, and/or circumstances showing that the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details for some other purpose unrelated to addressing the alleged infringement. From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Williams, Todd Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 4:49 PM To: Stephanie Perrin; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) All: As the original drafter of the III(C)(5) language that we're debating, I'm concerned that we've moved far away from the original purpose behind the language. So with that, and in the hopes of bridging the divide that has sprung up as to whether the final term at the end of the clause should be "human rights," or "privacy rights," or "privacy", or "PII" - what if we instead went with: (5) that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific information, facts, and/or circumstances showing that the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details for some other purpose unrelated to addressing the alleged infringement. Again, that gets to what III(C)(5) is really meant to address: the edge-case examples that Kathy and others have put forward of a Requestor submitting a pretextual complaint in order to get information about a battered women's shelter, minority religious group, anti-gang advocacy group, etc. Yet it also addresses the concerns that Volker and others have raised about including the term "human rights." From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Perrin Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 12:17 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) PII and this definition relates to individuals. If the proxy registration is for a battered women's shelter, the address and phone number do not relate to an individual or at least do not lead to the identification of an individual. I think using PII (which is different from PI, and not what is usually found in data protection law) leads us into waters that we dont need to enter. We must remember that proxy services are used for groups, even companies. Stephanie P On 2015-04-14 12:03, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote: Hi Kathy, How does Terri's language exclude those groups? Thanks, Kiran From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 9:01 AM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) Terry, I much prefer the original language since we are also working with the privacy and speech protections also of political groups, battered women's shelters, minority religious groups, Mom- and home-based small businesses, etc. -- the wide array of legitimate groups, organizations and businesses that use proxy/privacy providers. Best, Kathy : Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following: the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information. 1. Personally identifiable information (PII) is any data that could potentially identify a specific individual. Any information that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII. -- Terri Stumme Intellligence Analyst _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
Very helpful Todd, thanks! I don't see any problem with this. Kiran Malancharuvil Internet Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Apr 16, 2015, at 3:06 PM, Williams, Todd <Todd.Williams@turner.com<mailto:Todd.Williams@turner.com>> wrote: All: For ease of comparison, below is the original III(C)(5) language that I proposed, with the changes in the new proposal highlighted. Thanks. · Original: that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific evidence demonstrating that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details for the purpose of contravening the Customer’s human rights. · New: that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific information, facts, and/or circumstances showing that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details for some other purpose unrelated to addressing the alleged infringement. From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Williams, Todd Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 4:49 PM To: Stephanie Perrin; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) All: As the original drafter of the III(C)(5) language that we’re debating, I’m concerned that we’ve moved far away from the original purpose behind the language. So with that, and in the hopes of bridging the divide that has sprung up as to whether the final term at the end of the clause should be “human rights,” or “privacy rights,” or “privacy”, or “PII” – what if we instead went with: (5) that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific information, facts, and/or circumstances showing that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details for some other purpose unrelated to addressing the alleged infringement. Again, that gets to what III(C)(5) is really meant to address: the edge-case examples that Kathy and others have put forward of a Requestor submitting a pretextual complaint in order to get information about a battered women’s shelter, minority religious group, anti-gang advocacy group, etc. Yet it also addresses the concerns that Volker and others have raised about including the term “human rights.” From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Perrin Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 12:17 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) PII and this definition relates to individuals. If the proxy registration is for a battered women's shelter, the address and phone number do not relate to an individual or at least do not lead to the identification of an individual. I think using PII (which is different from PI, and not what is usually found in data protection law) leads us into waters that we dont need to enter. We must remember that proxy services are used for groups, even companies. Stephanie P On 2015-04-14 12:03, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote: Hi Kathy, How does Terri’s language exclude those groups? Thanks, Kiran From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 9:01 AM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Section III-C-(5) Terry, I much prefer the original language since we are also working with the privacy and speech protections also of political groups, battered women's shelters, minority religious groups, Mom- and home-based small businesses, etc. -- the wide array of legitimate groups, organizations and businesses that use proxy/privacy providers. Best, Kathy : Perhaps I am over-simplifying, but since agreement has not been reached on the current language, and III-C-(3) actually gives the provider quite a bit of lee-way to decide against disclosure, I propose the following: the Provider has found, specific information, facts and/or circumstances that reveal the Requestor's trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer's contact details solely for the purpose of contravening the Customer's personally identifiable information. 1. Personally identifiable information (PII) is any data that could potentially identify a specific individual. Any information that can be used to distinguish one person from another and can be used for de-anonymizing anonymous data can be considered PII. -- Terri Stumme Intellligence Analyst _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
participants (6)
-
Kathy Kleiman -
Kiran Malancharuvil -
Stephanie Perrin -
Terri Stumme -
Volker Greimann -
Williams, Todd