Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 October 2014 at 14:00 UTC. at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20141028-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#oct The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Steve Metalitz - IPC Graeme Bunton – RrSG Griffin Barnett – IPC Frank Michlick – Individual Don Blumenthal – RySG David Heasley-IPC Jim Bikoff-IPC Chris Pelling – RrSG Kathy Kleiman – NCSG Justin Macy - BC Susan Kawaguchi – BC Kristina Rosette – IPC Darcy Southwell – RrSG Paul McGrady – IPC Sarah Wyld – RrSG Victoria Scheckler - IPC Michele Neylon – RrSG Val Sherman – IPC Alex Deacon – IPC Todd Williams – IPC Phil Corwin – BC Volker Greimann - RrSG Holly Raiche – ALAC Theo Geurts - RrSG Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG Stephanie Perrin - NCSG David Cake - NCSG Susan Prosser - RrSG Christian Dawson - ISPC Apologies : Amr Elsadr - NCSG Carlton Samuels – At-Large James Bladel – RrSG ICANN staff: Mary Wong Amy Bivins Glen de Saint Géry ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Glen Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat@gnso.icann.org<mailto:gnso.secretariat@gnso.icann.org> http://gnso.icann.org<http://gnso.icann.org/> ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 28 October 2014: Glen de Saint Gery:Welcome to the PPSAI call on October 28 2014 Graeme Bunton:No audio via adobe? only call in? Glen de Saint Gery:sound should be up Holly Raiche:Are the dial outs being made? Graeme Bunton:I only see the option to dial in Holly Raiche:Is the option replacing an earlier request for a dial out? Mary Wong:Hi all, there was a new plugin I had to download today - I have Adobe sound and mic. Glen de Saint Gery:Holly we are dialing out to you now Holly Raiche:Thanks Chris Pelling:afternoon all Theo Geurts:good afternoon all Graeme Bunton:I am able to test my mic set up using the audio setup in the adobe connect, but the option is still not enabled when I try to connect my audio Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, I will dial in now. Graeme Bunton:dialing in, waiting on operator Volker Greimann:what was that just now? no audio? Volker Greimann:did anyone elses audio drop or just mine? Michele Neylon:got dropped by the operator Frank Michlick:I still have audio in the adobe room. Glen de Saint Gery:the operrator is getting people on the line Chris Pelling:I can also hear audio in the room steve metalitz:Schedule looks good to me. Glen de Saint Gery:@Volker, is your audio all right now? Holly Raiche:Actually, in apAC, therarere many very different regimes Holly Raiche:Sorry - thought you meant APAC region David Cake:I agree that F2F went well. Stephanie Perrin:Audio is going back and forth...is that me or are other people having trouble? Michele Neylon:Dialling in might be saner Mary Wong:@Steve, yes Mary Wong:Staff is assuming that the proposal highlighted in the document pertained only to Disclosure and not Publication Stephanie Perrin:@Michele thx Paul McGrady:Apologies, but I am having a really hard time hearing Don today. Michele Neylon:Paul - dialling in seems to work - adobe might be a bit b0rked Paul McGrady:Michele - thanks! I will try that. Glen de Saint Gery:if you need a dialout, please let me know David Cake:I was about to discuss, just realise I need to dial in Paul McGrady:Dial in is much better. Thanks! David Cake:I have no great issues with what Steve said, but I have disagreements with some of Vals other suggestions. Stephanie Perrin:agree witk Kathy K Volker Greimann:+1 Philip Corwin:On Disclosure, what IP rights are we talking about? Not patent, I presume. Certainly copyright. But are we including trademark -- there is UDRP and URS for that, and I don't think we should be creating a parallel procedure for domain name-related trademark allegations. sale of counterfeit goods on a website may be a different matter. Chris Pelling:Sorry I am listening, where are we page and point ? Chris Pelling:page 1 point 1 ? Mary Wong:@Chris, we're on the Relay issue Graeme Bunton:Ahahahaah. Thanks Steve Don Blumenthal':And Val's suggested edits in email. Val Sherman:My point regarding cost-shifting was specific to the second bullet -- which references a number of failed attempts at delivery via the email address provided. Graeme Bunton:Technically, not 'mine' Mary Wong:@Graeme, too late :) Michele Neylon:nor mine Todd Williams:+1 Steve. This is pretty narrow. Doesn't implicate examples Graham mentioned. Todd Williams:Graeme. Sorry. :) Kathy:Oh no - more quilts! Kathy:Quilts and diapers.... Chris Pelling:+1 Michele Volker Greimann:Not more diapers, please steve metalitz:Agree with Michele that all conclusions are preliminary but without "must" there's not a definable minimum standard for accreditation. Kristina Rosette:Apologies in advance for when/if I come off mute: The DC cab drivers are having another honking protest on Pennsylvania Avenue (immediately under my office window). Mary Wong:@Kristina, hence the need to move offices! :) Kristina Rosette:+1 to Steve w/r/t need for "must" in order to have an actual minimum standard Stephanie Perrin:REcommend parking the idea until we are closer to completion. Also recommend leaving discretion with providers. They are after all responsible. Michele Neylon:+1 Stephanie Volker Greimann:so essentially the taxi drivers are pushing you to use Uber instead again? Michele Neylon:Taxi drivers - don't get me started .. Kathy:I agree with the concerns raised by Michele and Stephanie, but also the note that the "should" applies only to the electronic communication. That is a detail I imissed. Kathy:Perhaps we should add a line that p/p service provides have discretion over any non-electronic communication that they receive. Kathy:providers Val Sherman:David -- we are talking about a stiuation where there have been a "certain minimum number of delivery failures -- i.e. hard bounces bc something is wrong with the email. Volker Greimann:Totally disagree with Steve: The standards for accreditation have nothing to do with forcing a provider to provide a third party with a potentially useless message. Stephanie Perrin:Is thew issue of must/should not something that we ask for comments on at the end of our drafting process? and cinch up accordingly? Alex Deacon:@michele - agreed. one a single 5xx falure should be sufficient. Michele Neylon:http://www.iana.org/assignments/smtp-enhanced-status-codes/smtp-enhanced-sta... Alex Deacon:a single.... Michele Neylon:temporary failures are a different matter Kathy:I think Val's suggestion of yesterday is one we should go back to our SG on and talk about it. Alex Deacon:right Chris Pelling:some nice feedback a few times then Volker Greimann:I am not currently dialled in. Usually use the Adobe Glen de Saint Gery:can we call out to you Volker? Volker Greimann:dialing in now Kathy:@Mary, in the notes, final paragraph, could you change "our" to "Val's" and then add some notes re: the concerns raised by others (because this is a shift of several things including should -> must and cost shifting. Kathy:Tx! Chris Pelling:Cheers kathy Volker Greimann:did not realize I would be asked to present Don Blumenthal':Validated postal code? Michele Neylon:huh? Don Blumenthal':Thinking of the Whois check processes Michele Neylon:There's no requirement to check post codes Volker Greimann:we just deactivated post-code checks for certain countries Volker Greimann:(and before you send an email to compliance, these are countries that do not have postal codes) Chris Pelling:Steve - we do not control content Darcy Southwell:@Steve, That was helpful, thanks. Graeme Bunton:Typically, when we work on malware and phishing issues, its with people we've built relationships with over years. I worry that removing our discretion on what to respond means that we then need to be far more rigid with those issues. Don Blumenthal':I should clarify. We don't see malware as a content issue without our anti abuse polcy. The point was to suggest that "content" definitions may vary. Michele Neylon:+1 Graeme Val Sherman:+1 @ Steve and Paul -- disclosure may obviate and/or faciliate a URS or UDRP. Kristina Rosette:And, NAF's URS supplemental rules make clear that the Respondent is the person/entity listed in Whois when the case is filed. That would be the proxy provider. So Phil's proposed solution doesn't seem to apply to URS. Don Blumenthal':Question for me or Paul? Kathy:+1 Volker - we have to take into account abuse on both sides - Registrants and Lawyers/Those seeking info Paul McGrady:I'm happy to respond to Volker's comment, but it appears we are out of time. Don Blumenthal':OK. For me. I'll follow up. in email. Philip Corwin:I have to leave call at 11 sharp but reiterate my concern abiout compulsory disclosure oif registrant data based upon mere allegation of TM infringement by a domain name. UDRP and URS filings sometimes are denied, yet we would compel disclsoure absent a decision on the merits. Also, while relay of a C&D letter may help avoid filing of a UDRP or URS, disclosure of registrant data does not promote that result. Kathy:I would like to hear Paul's response... Michele Neylon:Agree with Phil Kathy:Same bat channel. Bye all Michele Neylon:allegation of TM infringement is not the same as actual infringement Frank Michlick:Thank you. Michele Neylon:bye