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Updated Transcription PPSAI Subteam 2
by Terri Agnew Sept. 8, 2015

Sept. 8, 2015

Hello Everyone, Please see attached transcription with corrected title. Apologies for any confusion. Kind regards, Terri From: gnso-ppsai2-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai2-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Perrin Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 9:11 AM To: gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai2] Transcription PPSAI Subteam 2 Transcript is dated September 8 (in the title). Needs to be changed to August 31. kind regards Stephanie On 2015-09-01 9:25, Terri Agnew wrote: Hi Everyone, The original attached transcript seemed to have an issue. Please see attached version. Kind regards, Terri -----Original Message----- From: Terri Agnew Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 8:09 AM To: gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai2@icann.org> Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org> Subject: Transcription PPSAI Subteam 2 Dear all, Please find attached the transcription of the PPSAI Subteam 2 call on the 31 August 2015 Kind regards, Terri Agnew _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai2 mailing list Gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai2@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai2

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Re: [Gnso-ppsai2] Transcription PPSAI Subteam 2
by Terri Agnew Sept. 8, 2015

Sept. 8, 2015

Hi Everyone, The original attached transcript seemed to have an issue. Please see attached version. Kind regards, Terri -----Original Message----- From: Terri Agnew Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 8:09 AM To: gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org Subject: Transcription PPSAI Subteam 2 Dear all, Please find attached the transcription of the PPSAI Subteam 2 call on the 31 August 2015 Kind regards, Terri Agnew

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Transcription PPSAI Subteam 2
by Terri Agnew Sept. 1, 2015

Sept. 1, 2015

Dear all, Please find attached the transcription of the PPSAI Subteam 2 call on the 31 August 2015 Kind regards, Terri Agnew

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MP3 PPSAI WG SubTeam2 - Monday, 31 August 2015 at 1600 UTC
by Terri Agnew Aug. 31, 2015

Aug. 31, 2015

Dear All, Please find below the attendance and MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP SubTeam2 call held on Monday, 31 August 2015 at 16:00 UTC. Transcript will follow upon receipt. MP3: https://icann.box.com/shared/static/2eyp5ftx2ltdp6l3de6c0mmio6d84c6u.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=zZ8xDDIU4PY795Cika7Nmy-2FNugFnAwo9a…> Attendees: Kiran Malancharuvil- IPC Terri Stumme BC Susan Prosser RrSG Kathy Kleiman NCSG Stephanie Perrin NCSG Apologies: Lindsay Hamilton-Reid RrSG Christian Dawson - ISPCP ICANN staff: Mary Wong Terri Agnew Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Monday, 31 August 2015 Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Privacy & Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Sub Team 2 teleconference on Monday, 31 August 2015 Kathy:Just lost Mary Terri Agnew:Welcome Stephanie Perrin Stephanie Perrin:Thanks, sorry I did not realize it was just the same old link Stephanie Perrin:I think we need it for accountability Kathy:I'm confused, there appear to be at least four documents Stephanie Perrin:I think it is more than a request....we have to follow normal procedures. Kathy:@Mary that sounds good Kathy:@Mary and All: I have no trouble putting in the commenters later... Stephanie Perrin:that would be wonderful.. Stephanie Perrin:can you put up question 2 please? Kathy:That's not what I said at all Stephanie Perrin:I will have to check the transcript....I am not sure that I said we are not making progress... Stephanie Perrin:If so I did not mean that, nor did I mean to indicate that the call for comments was a waste of time. It is extremely important to get input. and we got lots of it. Kathy:Disagree completely with what Kiran just said Kiran Malancharuvil:What is the justification for dismissing the comments that call for definitions? Kiran Malancharuvil:Just because you don't agree? Kathy:It's only a small fraction of the commenters who seek to drive down the definitions path Susan Prosser:I agree with positioning that sub team has not made a consensus Kathy:+1 Susan Kiran Malancharuvil:The content question is a red herring. If ICANN never took content (including commercial v. noncommercial) into account we wouldn't have any RPMs Kiran Malancharuvil:I would also support the "no consensus" position Stephanie Perrin:I will see how many folks I can line up to support my position Kiran.... Kathy:Tx you, Mary and Terri! Stephanie Perrin:Thanks very much! Slow going, but progress Kiran Malancharuvil:Thanks Mary! Susan Prosser:Thank you Mary Mary Wong:thanks all!

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PPSAI Sub Team 2 call on Monday 31 August at 1600 UTC
by Mary Wong Aug. 31, 2015

Aug. 31, 2015

Thanks to all who responded by way of this email I¹m requesting that the GNSO Secretariat set up the call-in details and AC room. Please watch your inboxes for the information they¹ll send around. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org From: "Prosser, Susan" <susan(a)domaintools.com> Date: Monday, August 31, 2015 at 00:57 To: Terri Stumme <terri.stumme(a)legitscript.com> Cc: Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org>, "gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org" <gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai2] PPSAI Sub Team 2 - status update > I can make that work for a call tomorrow. > > > ~~~~ > Susan Prosser > VP, Client Services > DomainTools, LLC > > T: (206) 838-9060 > E: susan(a)domaintools.com > PGP: A2C4D2A4 > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Terri Stumme <terri.stumme(a)legitscript.com> > wrote: >> I can be available for a call on Monday. >> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org> wrote: >>> Thanks, Lindsay! >>> >>> All - again, as the subteam is due to provide its report to the full WG this >>> coming Tuesday 1 September, shall we do a call on Monday to discuss the >>> questions/topics set out below? >>> >>> Is anyone NOT able to do a 1600 UTC call on Monday? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Mary >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 16:02, Lindsay Hamilton-Reid >>> <Lindsay.Hamilton-Reid(a)fasthosts.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mary >>>> >>>> Many thanks for this. I can do a call on the Monday. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Lindsay >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 27 Aug 2015, at 08:56, Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello again everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Attached please find proposed language from Kiran and Christian following >>>>> the last Sub Team call, intended to address the comments from the Save >>>>> Domain Privacy and Respect Our Privacy petition and emails. As agreed on >>>>> the Sub Team call, the finalized language will be inserted into the Sub >>>>> Team¹s report to the full WG on Question 1. >>>>> >>>>> If we can get consensus on Question 1 via email, perhaps the call I¹d >>>>> proposed below can then focus on Questions 2 and 3 as well as any notes >>>>> anyone may have on the remaining comments that I¹d previously grouped into >>>>> a Question 4? Please let me know if that will work and if you think we >>>>> should convene a call either on Friday or Monday. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and cheers >>>>> Mary >>>>> >>>>> Mary Wong >>>>> Senior Policy Director >>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) >>>>> Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 <tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204889> >>>>> Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org> >>>>> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 08:48 >>>>> To: <gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org> >>>>> Subject: PPSAI Sub Team 2 - status update >>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> As this Sub Team is due to make its next/final report to the full WG next >>>>>> week (1 September), I thought I¹d write to follow up on the ³action >>>>>> items² noted after the last call we did on 12 August (below). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Question 1, I believe that Christian and Kiran will send proposed >>>>>> language to this group for your review and, hopefully consensus. >>>>>> >>>>>> For Questions 2 & 3, it was agreed that the Sub Team as a whole would >>>>>> likely need to further discuss its conclusions/recommendations. I will >>>>>> note here also that we have not yet discussed Question 4, though in that >>>>>> regard perhaps I can suggest that staff take a stab at summarizing them >>>>>> for your review. This suggestion is based on the fact that these >>>>>> represent a collection of comments that relate generally to our topic >>>>>> rather than specific responses to Questions 1, 2 or 3. >>>>>> >>>>>> As such, would it make sense for the Sub Team to try to do a call to go >>>>>> over the above, perhaps on Friday 28 August or Monday 31 August, >>>>>> presuming that everyone will have had a chance to send and/or read the >>>>>> latest documents by then? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and cheers >>>>>> Mary >>>>>> >>>>>> Mary Wong >>>>>> Senior Policy Director >>>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) >>>>>> Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 <tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204889> >>>>>> Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org> >>>>>> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 04:53 >>>>>> To: <gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org> >>>>>> Subject: Follow up from Sub Team call today >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Sub Team members, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the benefit of those who could not join us on the Sub Team call >>>>>>> earlier today and to document next steps for this group, here are the >>>>>>> ³action items² that were agreed on by those on the call: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Approach to the Save Domain Privacy and Respect Our Privacy petition, >>>>>>> comments and statements: >>>>>>> * Kiran and Christian will work on draft suggested language for the Sub >>>>>>> Team in respect of Question 1. While everyone agreed that these comments >>>>>>> show a huge wave of support for user privacy to be respected and against >>>>>>> restricting privacy services based on the word ³commercial² used as a >>>>>>> distinction, there was no agreement that this general support is totally >>>>>>> dispositive of the various specific issues and options that had been >>>>>>> raised by the Working Group in our Initial Report. >>>>>>> * ADDITIONAL NOTE: I went and prepared a general summary on the >>>>>>> additional comments that accompanied the Save Domain Privacy petition >>>>>>> i.e. the additional comments that the organizers sent in, containing >>>>>>> specific comments from many of the signatories. I¹ll circulate this >>>>>>> separately, in the hope that this summary will be helpful as you >>>>>>> finalize the Sub Team¹s recommendations. >>>>>>> Treating Question 1 as a ³threshold² question to Questions 2 and 3: >>>>>>> * It was agreed that this may not be possible, since some comments noted >>>>>>> that the answer to Question 1 might depend on the answer to Question 2. >>>>>>> It was suggested that Question 2 might in fact be a more appropriate >>>>>>> ³threshold² question, although that was not how it was framed in the >>>>>>> Initial Report. >>>>>>> Next steps: >>>>>>> * Sub Team to discuss draft language from Kiran and Christian (next >>>>>>> week?) >>>>>>> * Sub Team to continue review of the summary analysis to Questions 1 & >>>>>>> 2, and possibly also 3 as well >>>>>>> Please note that the WG Work Plan currently has this Sub Team scheduled >>>>>>> to provide its final recommended actions on Section 1.3.3 to the full WG >>>>>>> on 1 September (i.e. about two and a half weeks from now). Assuming you >>>>>>> think that is a realistic deadline, this would seem to call for at least >>>>>>> one call late next week or early the following week, prior to which >>>>>>> hopefully you will have had the chance to review all the documents >>>>>>> prepared by Lindsay and Terri, and the forthcoming proposed language >>>>>>> from Kiran and Christian. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks and cheers >>>>>>> Mary >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mary Wong >>>>>>> Senior Policy Director >>>>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) >>>>>>> Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 <tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204889> >>>>>>> Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org >>>>>>> >>>>> <Sub Team 2 - proposed language on SDP & ROP comments - updated 27 >>>>> August.docx> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Gnso-ppsai2 mailing list >>>>> Gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai2 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnso-ppsai2 mailing list >>> Gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai2 >> >> >> >> -- >> Terri Stumme >> Intelligence Analyst >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnso-ppsai2 mailing list >> Gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai2 >

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PPSAI Sub Team 2 - status update
by Mary Wong Aug. 30, 2015

Aug. 30, 2015

Hello everyone, As this Sub Team is due to make its next/final report to the full WG next week (1 September), I thought I¹d write to follow up on the ³action items² noted after the last call we did on 12 August (below). On Question 1, I believe that Christian and Kiran will send proposed language to this group for your review and, hopefully consensus. For Questions 2 & 3, it was agreed that the Sub Team as a whole would likely need to further discuss its conclusions/recommendations. I will note here also that we have not yet discussed Question 4, though in that regard perhaps I can suggest that staff take a stab at summarizing them for your review. This suggestion is based on the fact that these represent a collection of comments that relate generally to our topic rather than specific responses to Questions 1, 2 or 3. As such, would it make sense for the Sub Team to try to do a call to go over the above, perhaps on Friday 28 August or Monday 31 August, presuming that everyone will have had a chance to send and/or read the latest documents by then? Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org From: Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 04:53 To: <gnso-ppsai2(a)icann.org> Subject: Follow up from Sub Team call today > Hello Sub Team members, > > For the benefit of those who could not join us on the Sub Team call earlier > today and to document next steps for this group, here are the ³action items² > that were agreed on by those on the call: > > Approach to the Save Domain Privacy and Respect Our Privacy petition, comments > and statements: > * Kiran and Christian will work on draft suggested language for the Sub Team > in respect of Question 1. While everyone agreed that these comments show a > huge wave of support for user privacy to be respected and against restricting > privacy services based on the word ³commercial² used as a distinction, there > was no agreement that this general support is totally dispositive of the > various specific issues and options that had been raised by the Working Group > in our Initial Report. > * ADDITIONAL NOTE: I went and prepared a general summary on the additional > comments that accompanied the Save Domain Privacy petition i.e. the additional > comments that the organizers sent in, containing specific comments from many > of the signatories. I¹ll circulate this separately, in the hope that this > summary will be helpful as you finalize the Sub Team¹s recommendations. > Treating Question 1 as a ³threshold² question to Questions 2 and 3: > * It was agreed that this may not be possible, since some comments noted that > the answer to Question 1 might depend on the answer to Question 2. It was > suggested that Question 2 might in fact be a more appropriate ³threshold² > question, although that was not how it was framed in the Initial Report. > Next steps: > * Sub Team to discuss draft language from Kiran and Christian (next week?) > * Sub Team to continue review of the summary analysis to Questions 1 & 2, and > possibly also 3 as well > Please note that the WG Work Plan currently has this Sub Team scheduled to > provide its final recommended actions on Section 1.3.3 to the full WG on 1 > September (i.e. about two and a half weeks from now). Assuming you think that > is a realistic deadline, this would seem to call for at least one call late > next week or early the following week, prior to which hopefully you will have > had the chance to review all the documents prepared by Lindsay and Terri, and > the forthcoming proposed language from Kiran and Christian. > > Thanks and cheers > Mary > > Mary Wong > Senior Policy Director > Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) > Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 > Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org >

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Follow up from Sub Team call today
by Mary Wong Aug. 14, 2015

Aug. 14, 2015

Hello Sub Team members, For the benefit of those who could not join us on the Sub Team call earlier today and to document next steps for this group, here are the ³action items² that were agreed on by those on the call: Approach to the Save Domain Privacy and Respect Our Privacy petition, comments and statements: * Kiran and Christian will work on draft suggested language for the Sub Team in respect of Question 1. While everyone agreed that these comments show a huge wave of support for user privacy to be respected and against restricting privacy services based on the word ³commercial² used as a distinction, there was no agreement that this general support is totally dispositive of the various specific issues and options that had been raised by the Working Group in our Initial Report. * ADDITIONAL NOTE: I went and prepared a general summary on the additional comments that accompanied the Save Domain Privacy petition i.e. the additional comments that the organizers sent in, containing specific comments from many of the signatories. I¹ll circulate this separately, in the hope that this summary will be helpful as you finalize the Sub Team¹s recommendations. Treating Question 1 as a ³threshold² question to Questions 2 and 3: * It was agreed that this may not be possible, since some comments noted that the answer to Question 1 might depend on the answer to Question 2. It was suggested that Question 2 might in fact be a more appropriate ³threshold² question, although that was not how it was framed in the Initial Report. Next steps: * Sub Team to discuss draft language from Kiran and Christian (next week?) * Sub Team to continue review of the summary analysis to Questions 1 & 2, and possibly also 3 as well Please note that the WG Work Plan currently has this Sub Team scheduled to provide its final recommended actions on Section 1.3.3 to the full WG on 1 September (i.e. about two and a half weeks from now). Assuming you think that is a realistic deadline, this would seem to call for at least one call late next week or early the following week, prior to which hopefully you will have had the chance to review all the documents prepared by Lindsay and Terri, and the forthcoming proposed language from Kiran and Christian. Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org

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Transcription PPSAI Sub team 2
by Terri Agnew Aug. 14, 2015

Aug. 14, 2015

Dear All, Please find attached the transcription of the PPSAI Sub Team 2 call held on 14 August 2015. Kind regards Terri Agnew

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MP3 PPSAI WG SubTeam2 - Friday, 14 August 2015 at 1500 UTC
by Terri Agnew Aug. 14, 2015

Aug. 14, 2015

Dear All, Please find below the attendance and MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP SubTeam2 call held on Friday, 14 August 2015 at 15:00 UTC. Transcript will follow upon receipt. MP3: https://icann.box.com/shared/static/8o7aoev7bm4k3j2dw3bfr1c91dszmmv5.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=zZ8xDDIU4PY795Cika7Nmy-2FNugFnAwo9a…> Attendees: Kiran Malancharuvil- IPC Terri Stumme BC Lindsay Hamilton-Reid RrSG Christian Dawson - ISPCP Susan Kawaguchi - BC ICANN staff: Mary Wong Terri Agnew Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Friday, 14 August 2015 Terri Agnew: Welcome to the Sub Group call for Privacy & Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Sub Team 2 teleconference on Friday, 14 August 2015. Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:Can you hear me? Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:I can hear you guys Terri Agnew:Susan Prosser has joined audio Mary Wong:WElcome, Susan Mary Wong:We're talking about Q1 - whether P/P services for online financil transactions should be prohibited, including how to deal with the Save Domain Privacy petition Kiran:The legal conclusions were never challenged. The conversation is absolutely still on the table Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:It really depends on which jurisdiction. There are no specific rules on WHOIS under, for example, English legislation. Mary Wong:No offense taken! This has been a real learning experience - it's my first WG as a staffer! Christian Dawson:I won't fight the effort to define commercial or transactional but I do believe that the clear overwhelming support is for making domain privacy available for all, making the need for the definitions relatively moot. I know there's disagreement on this but I want my comment reflected publicly

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A very general summary of the comments that accompanied the Save Domain Privacy petition
by Mary Wong Aug. 14, 2015

Aug. 14, 2015

Dear all, To various degrees each Sub Team cc¹d here has been discussing how it wishes to approach both the specific language of, as well as the additional comments that accompanied, the Save Domain Privacy petition that was signed by 10,042 people. I did a quick skim of the additional comments that were sent in as an attachment to the petition and prepared the following summary based on the initial categories used by the Save Domain Privacy organizers in their statement. Some of this may be more relevant or useful to one rather than another Sub Team, but I thought it may be helpful to send it to all of you nonetheless. For Sub Team 2 on Section 1.3.3, while there were quite a few comments that did not distinguish between personal-use domains and websites with those used for commercial purposes, there were other commenters who linked their concerns over privacy or anonymity with their specific experiences as registrants or proxy customers of domains that are used in relation to online financial transactions of one sort or other. Please see the categories below for additional details. For Sub Team 3 on Annex E, on the question of whether ³verifiable evidence² means only a court order, no commenter expressly said this is what the phrase must mean, although a few noted that disclosure should only take place upon either a court order, warrant, due process or (in one instance) ³some legal document². Several mentioned the possibility of getting a subpoena or a warrant (with a few adding that this is due process that should be obtained from legal channels, law enforcement or a government agency). Others simply noted that these are existing channels that can be used without specifying if they believed these to be the only ones. One or two mentioned the need that disclosure be made only upon ³probable cause² or ³good cause² but without specifically linking this to a court order. As such, and if I may, I don¹t think we can say that there is unequivocal support from the additional comments to the petition for one specific meaning to the term ³verifiable² (should the Sub Team or Working Group wish to go down that path). While there were numerous comments that simply stated the commenter¹s wish for privacy and/or the need to respect the right to privacy in general terms, there were also numerous commenters that tried to relate their opinions to specific concerns. Generally, the most common concerns that can be gleaned from these additional comments to the SDP petition seem to be: * Doxing/SWAT-ing and concerns about physical safety (e.g. stalking, harassment or where registrant is in an unsafe or threatening location) * Anonymity needs for certain individuals and organizations (e.g. those serving at-risk communities, targeted minorities, political and religious activists) * Lack of separation of online business presence from personal information, in some cases for cost reasons and especially for home-based or small businesses (e.g. online shop owners, freelancers, self-employed persons, writers) * Registrants who use pseudonyms and pen names for legal reasons (e.g. adult entertainers, erotica authors) * Data harvesting concerns * Spam, scams and identity theft (e.g. phishing attempts) * Other legitimate need for privacy of domain information, e.g. new product launches, business competitors, pre-launch websites I hope some at least of this is useful to your groups as you try to complete your discussions on this question and move on to reviewing the other comments. I will try to upload the document that contains all these additional comments to your respective Sub Team wiki pages if I can (it is 554 PDF pages!); in the meantime, here is the link to it in the public comment forum: http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-ppsai-initial-05may15/pdfCL0NdiQmaL.pd f. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org

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