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*Updated attendance* Attendance, Adobe Connect recording and chat / Next-Gen RDS drafting team 2 - Domain Name Control -and- Individual Internet Use call on Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC
by Julie Bisland Oct. 17, 2017

Oct. 17, 2017

Dear all, Please find below the Adobe Connect recording, chat and attendance from the Next-Gen RDS drafting team 2 - Domain Name Control -and- Individual Internet Use call held on Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC. Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p6rvjdhf5c5/<https://participate.icann.org/p6rvjdhf5c5/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=ba32205baa7d5c6f…> Apologies: Alan Greenberg Attendance: Susan Kawaguchi Maxim Alzoba, Volker Greimann, Brian Winterfeldt, Tapani Tarvainen, Daniel Nanghaka, Andrew Sullivan Staff: Nathalie Peregrine, Julie Bisland Thank you. Kind regards, Julie Adobe Connect Chat: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the RDS DT2 on Domain Name Control and Individual Internet Use on Tuesday 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC Volker Greimann:Still stuck on PPSAI IRT Nathalie Peregrine:Thank you Volker, noted. Volker Greimann:so I have this on mute until that ends Tapani Tarvainen:SRS = Shared Registry System Nathalie Peregrine:Maxim Alzoba has joined the meeting Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All, sorry for being bit late Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think there should be difference between what RDS collects/stores and shows Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ccTLDs have all kinds of wild things in their data designs Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):for example national IDs Tapani Tarvainen:Stuff in RDS should bejustified indepently of SRS, I think, even though there's a lot of overlap. Tapani Tarvainen:*independently Susan Kawaguchi:Contact information included RDS ? Tapani Tarvainen:So picking a subset of SRS as starting point for what should to to the RDS; I could live with that. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Registry SRS recieves two kinds of items (added by Registrar personnel manually and added by Registrar using data of Reseller/Registrant) , mostly Susan Kawaguchi:Registrant name, address, phone number email address and Fax ? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the second set is mostly from B2C of Regisrar (facing to Registrart/Reseller) Tapani Tarvainen:I wasn't agreeing on the specific set of elements, only that SRS would be a useful starting point. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):should we underline that we are talking about collection/storage only now? Tapani Tarvainen:+1 Andrew Susan Kawaguchi:Items that are transmitted through SRS they are candidates for RDS collection, which can be retained and which can be published andrew sullivan:We're not, though. I am talking about it now is all Nathalie Peregrine:@ all, Julie is now taking over from me for call management,thank you. Susan Kawaguchi:Items that are transmitted through SRS they are candidates for RDS collection, which may be retained and which may be published Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 andrew - about items that transferred to SRS , and relevant to functioning of DNS system (but not all transferred items) andrew sullivan:What items that are transmitted via SRS protocol (i.e. EPP) are _not_ candidates for RDS collection? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ID's of persons Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it has nothing to do with DNS Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):but is a requirement for some TLDs andrew sullivan:The RDS is not only about the DNS, though andrew sullivan:If this were only about the DNS, the problem would be trivial andrew sullivan:we'd be done Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):transfer of person's ID to foreing party is heavily regulated almost everywhere Daniel K. Nanghaka:the data must be available to serve there purpose andrew sullivan:Yes. So under some conditions it can't be transferred. But the RDS is a distributed database Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not AMADEUS where you need it for security purposes Tapani Tarvainen:+1 Volker andrew sullivan:therefore there is collection as soon as the registrar has it Daniel K. Nanghaka:Registrar's must provide the data despite of its status despite its publicity status Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not going to be published, and collected by Registry according to it's policy / business cycle and not due to ICANN policy andrew sullivan:@Susan: I think it's a good start Tapani Tarvainen:Hard to disagree with those "may"s in there Tapani Tarvainen:Perhaps we could agree that items in SRS can be used as a starting point but not automatically include everything in there in RDS, too. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):SRS is a method of B2B interaction done via EPP or sometimes offline Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):so I am not sure we need to refer to SRS at all (in some situations data allowed to be passed to Registry via offline methods (fax, for example)) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):registry policies enforced only on Registry and Registrar level (if not required by contract then not on Reseller level) Julie Bisland:Daniel is connected via the audio bridge, but may be muted. I'll have operator call out to him andrew sullivan:What data is needed from RDS for transfer? If I'm a registrar, I can get that through the SRS, and non-registrars can't initiate the transfer. No? Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think we have to look at the specific data elements and derive use cases Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):SRS only for contracted Registrars with the particular Registry Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):We shoudl distinguish between parties collecting data , and use we for GNSOrequirements Daniel K. Nanghaka:+1 Maxim Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and to clearly say "Registry" , "Registrar", "Reseller" whern we talk about the collection point and add "transfer of collected data from __ to ___" Tapani Tarvainen:I certainly occasionally use whois to check suspicious domains... but I may not be a typical Internet user. :-) Daniel K. Nanghaka:have we yet come to the issue of transfer. The transfer should be discussed in the second phase Tapani Tarvainen:Certificates are not so useful for email at present andrew sullivan:I do not think that we can use ICANN-familiar people as examples of "Internet users". We are outliers among outliers. Daniel K. Nanghaka:let's focus discussion to purposes, the certificate shows ownership Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think the layman Internet user does not understand privacy and that there data is out there Volker Greimann:and yet I still use it Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):baisc internet uses does not undersstand sometimes difference between correct and incorrect data/certificates e.t.c. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*user Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):domain administrator verification is in contracts so , unfortunately personal data is relevant to domain control Volker Greimann:Then you need another registrar ;-) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):REgistry is aware only of items given by Registrar Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):some exclusions might be - special procedure of additional verification e.t.c, Volker Greimann:Susan +1, but then we already agreed that registration dates are not personal data ;-) andrew sullivan:I think "verifying status of domain" could be a use case that is purely technical -- the non-renewal in the example would cause an outage andrew sullivan:But the overall management of portfolios -- which of these domains is associated with my account? -- could be outside that line Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Andrew, verification is not technical issue , it is business issue (DNS works perfectly even with the non correct data of the Registrant, for example when he/she decided to change name) andrew sullivan:Surely if the registration does not get renewed, it's a technical issue -- the name stops working Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):most probably verification is anti-abuse related andrew sullivan:And also being able to contact someone because they're spewing garbage at me is a technical issie andrew sullivan:issue andrew sullivan::) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):time needs to be doodle polled Tapani Tarvainen:Same time next Tuesday is good andrew sullivan:ok for me Volker Greimann:ok Julie Bisland:Susan, I'll have a doodle poll sent for Tuesday Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I have more things happening so need to ensure no overlaps (preparations to ICANN meeting) andrew sullivan:thanks everyone Daniel K. Nanghaka:Thank you andrew sullivan:bye Tapani Tarvainen:bye and thanks all Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Bye all , good night Daniel K. Nanghaka:bye

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Attendance, Adobe Connect recording and chat / Next-Gen RDS drafting team 2 - Domain Name Control -and- Individual Internet Use call on Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC
by Julie Bisland Oct. 17, 2017

Oct. 17, 2017

Dear all, Please find below the Adobe Connect recording, chat and attendance from the Next-Gen RDS drafting team 2 - Domain Name Control -and- Individual Internet Use call held on Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC. Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p6rvjdhf5c5/<https://participate.icann.org/p6rvjdhf5c5/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=ba32205baa7d5c6f…> Apologies: Alan Greenberg Attendance: Susan Kawaguchi Maxim Alzoba, Volker Greimann, Brian Winterfeldt, Tapani Tarvainen, Alan Greenberg, Daniel Nanghaka, Andrew Sullivan Staff: Nathalie Peregrine, Julie Bisland Thank you. Kind regards, Julie Adobe Connect Chat: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the RDS DT2 on Domain Name Control and Individual Internet Use on Tuesday 17 October 2017 at 15:00 UTC Volker Greimann:Still stuck on PPSAI IRT Nathalie Peregrine:Thank you Volker, noted. Volker Greimann:so I have this on mute until that ends Tapani Tarvainen:SRS = Shared Registry System Nathalie Peregrine:Maxim Alzoba has joined the meeting Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All, sorry for being bit late Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think there should be difference between what RDS collects/stores and shows Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ccTLDs have all kinds of wild things in their data designs Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):for example national IDs Tapani Tarvainen:Stuff in RDS should bejustified indepently of SRS, I think, even though there's a lot of overlap. Tapani Tarvainen:*independently Susan Kawaguchi:Contact information included RDS ? Tapani Tarvainen:So picking a subset of SRS as starting point for what should to to the RDS; I could live with that. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Registry SRS recieves two kinds of items (added by Registrar personnel manually and added by Registrar using data of Reseller/Registrant) , mostly Susan Kawaguchi:Registrant name, address, phone number email address and Fax ? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the second set is mostly from B2C of Regisrar (facing to Registrart/Reseller) Tapani Tarvainen:I wasn't agreeing on the specific set of elements, only that SRS would be a useful starting point. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):should we underline that we are talking about collection/storage only now? Tapani Tarvainen:+1 Andrew Susan Kawaguchi:Items that are transmitted through SRS they are candidates for RDS collection, which can be retained and which can be published andrew sullivan:We're not, though. I am talking about it now is all Nathalie Peregrine:@ all, Julie is now taking over from me for call management,thank you. Susan Kawaguchi:Items that are transmitted through SRS they are candidates for RDS collection, which may be retained and which may be published Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 andrew - about items that transferred to SRS , and relevant to functioning of DNS system (but not all transferred items) andrew sullivan:What items that are transmitted via SRS protocol (i.e. EPP) are _not_ candidates for RDS collection? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ID's of persons Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it has nothing to do with DNS Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):but is a requirement for some TLDs andrew sullivan:The RDS is not only about the DNS, though andrew sullivan:If this were only about the DNS, the problem would be trivial andrew sullivan:we'd be done Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):transfer of person's ID to foreing party is heavily regulated almost everywhere Daniel K. Nanghaka:the data must be available to serve there purpose andrew sullivan:Yes. So under some conditions it can't be transferred. But the RDS is a distributed database Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not AMADEUS where you need it for security purposes Tapani Tarvainen:+1 Volker andrew sullivan:therefore there is collection as soon as the registrar has it Daniel K. Nanghaka:Registrar's must provide the data despite of its status despite its publicity status Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not going to be published, and collected by Registry according to it's policy / business cycle and not due to ICANN policy andrew sullivan:@Susan: I think it's a good start Tapani Tarvainen:Hard to disagree with those "may"s in there Tapani Tarvainen:Perhaps we could agree that items in SRS can be used as a starting point but not automatically include everything in there in RDS, too. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):SRS is a method of B2B interaction done via EPP or sometimes offline Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):so I am not sure we need to refer to SRS at all (in some situations data allowed to be passed to Registry via offline methods (fax, for example)) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):registry policies enforced only on Registry and Registrar level (if not required by contract then not on Reseller level) Julie Bisland:Daniel is connected via the audio bridge, but may be muted. I'll have operator call out to him andrew sullivan:What data is needed from RDS for transfer? If I'm a registrar, I can get that through the SRS, and non-registrars can't initiate the transfer. No? Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think we have to look at the specific data elements and derive use cases Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):SRS only for contracted Registrars with the particular Registry Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):We shoudl distinguish between parties collecting data , and use we for GNSOrequirements Daniel K. Nanghaka:+1 Maxim Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and to clearly say "Registry" , "Registrar", "Reseller" whern we talk about the collection point and add "transfer of collected data from __ to ___" Tapani Tarvainen:I certainly occasionally use whois to check suspicious domains... but I may not be a typical Internet user. :-) Daniel K. Nanghaka:have we yet come to the issue of transfer. The transfer should be discussed in the second phase Tapani Tarvainen:Certificates are not so useful for email at present andrew sullivan:I do not think that we can use ICANN-familiar people as examples of "Internet users". We are outliers among outliers. Daniel K. Nanghaka:let's focus discussion to purposes, the certificate shows ownership Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think the layman Internet user does not understand privacy and that there data is out there Volker Greimann:and yet I still use it Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):baisc internet uses does not undersstand sometimes difference between correct and incorrect data/certificates e.t.c. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*user Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):domain administrator verification is in contracts so , unfortunately personal data is relevant to domain control Volker Greimann:Then you need another registrar ;-) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):REgistry is aware only of items given by Registrar Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):some exclusions might be - special procedure of additional verification e.t.c, Volker Greimann:Susan +1, but then we already agreed that registration dates are not personal data ;-) andrew sullivan:I think "verifying status of domain" could be a use case that is purely technical -- the non-renewal in the example would cause an outage andrew sullivan:But the overall management of portfolios -- which of these domains is associated with my account? -- could be outside that line Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Andrew, verification is not technical issue , it is business issue (DNS works perfectly even with the non correct data of the Registrant, for example when he/she decided to change name) andrew sullivan:Surely if the registration does not get renewed, it's a technical issue -- the name stops working Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):most probably verification is anti-abuse related andrew sullivan:And also being able to contact someone because they're spewing garbage at me is a technical issie andrew sullivan:issue andrew sullivan::) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):time needs to be doodle polled Tapani Tarvainen:Same time next Tuesday is good andrew sullivan:ok for me Volker Greimann:ok Julie Bisland:Susan, I'll have a doodle poll sent for Tuesday Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I have more things happening so need to ensure no overlaps (preparations to ICANN meeting) andrew sullivan:thanks everyone Daniel K. Nanghaka:Thank you andrew sullivan:bye Tapani Tarvainen:bye and thanks all Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Bye all , good night Daniel K. Nanghaka:bye

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Drafting Team #2 – Domain Name Control -and- Individual Internet Use
by Susan Kawaguchi Oct. 17, 2017

Oct. 17, 2017

Hello All, Welcome! You have been selected by the RDS leadership team to serve on a drafting team to define the RDS purposes named in the subject line above. Thank you very much for volunteering to participate in this effort. Here is the list of the team members: Coordinated by: Susan Kawaguchi Members: Maxim Alzoba, Volker Greimann, Brian Winterfeldt, Tapani Tarvainen, Alan Greenberg, Daniel Nanghaka, Andrew Sullivan As you can see, this message is being sent via a dedicated mailing list that has been set up to facilitate email communications over the next two to two and half weeks. Please use the list for all of our electronic team communications. Note that this list is publicly archived. Here are the list details. Mailing list address: gnso-rds-pdp-2(a)icann.org Mailing list archive: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-2 Attached you will find a template that outlines our tasks and provides a timeline. Please review it right away so that we can start discussions as soon as possible. We plan to have at least two teleconference calls over the next two weeks, but additional ones may be scheduled as needed. At the same time, mailing list discussion is encouraged. The first call will be scheduled on Tuesday or Wednesday, October 17 or 18. Please complete the Doodle poll linked below not later than end of day on Saturday, October 14 so that a time can be identified that best meets team member availability. https://icannorg.doodle.com/poll/ehvh66vvutp83yiu Teams were formed using results from this week’s poll which can be found on the WG wiki. Every team includes: · At least one person from each of the perspectives named in the poll wherever possible, but without assigning members to more than one team. · A mix of members who have direct experience regarding the proposed purpose and those who have little or no experience about the proposed purpose. Remember that the purpose of this work is not to make decisions but rather to facilitate communication and understanding. The team is expected to deliver a one to two-page document to the full WG that will be used in our face to face meeting on Saturday, October 28 to help all WG members understand the applicable purpose. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them on this list. Thanks in advance for completing the Doodle Poll promptly and for participating in our discussions starting today and in the days ahead. Susan Kawaguchi Drafting Team Coordinator

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