Hi Steve, There were a series of debates/discussion on the list a while back about what pieces of info constitute PII, with regards to GDPR implications. We all understand and agree that the DNS can't function without these A/NS/AAAA/MX etc elements being publicly exposed. But they are also information collected from the end customer just like WHOIS data is, and apparently qualify as PII under the new rules. Especially with registrars' dynamic DNS services where the domain almost always points to the user's current home IP address, with no authentication protecting the A record. None of us believe there should be "gated" A access, but some of us argue that the loss of WHOIS will degrade the functioning of networks, and that this justifies the exposure of the data, in the same way that cutting off A record access will degrade the functioning of networks, therefore it should be exposed even if the law thinks it's PII. It's, of course, a matter of debate here. On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Steve Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com> wrote:
I'm puzzled by the reference to name servers and A records. These are necessarily public else the domain name system won't function. Is there confusion or misunderstanding about the role of these records?
Steve
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:47 AM, allison nixon <elsakoo@gmail.com> wrote:
1,000,000% agreed. Registrars cannot eliminate all their risk by masking WHOIS into oblivion. The DPAs can still ask why they are exposing A records, nameservers, etc, to anyone who asks for them, without valid reasons or authentication. Why do they expose zone files, etc. The DPAs can ask why customer support can sometimes so easily be social engineered into handing over accounts to account takeover scammers.
Since most registrars are also hosting providers/mail providers, would criminals storing stolen PII on your servers be a GDPR issue? After all, the ultimate owner of the server is also considered a "processor", which has interesting implications if one's customers include phishers, or sell stolen credit cards, and one's already been notified. I have even seen miscreants putting doxes in TXT records.
I already know of quite a few incidents where people would have had standing to file a GDPR complaint against registrars/hosters, unrelated to WHOIS.
Eventually the issue is going to impact the core business model of registrars. This isn't going to stop at WHOIS. An open dialog with the DPAs at an early stage is of utmost importance for all parties involved here.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net> wrote:
Benny,
This is why I support multi-venue multi-stakholder dialogue with the DPA's so that they are appraised of the issues on all sides of the data protection issue. They are then more likely to act in a judicious manner, and less like an attack dog. Watch the new movie "*The Post*" where when *Washington Post* owner Katharine Graham decided to publish the Vietnam War Pentagon Papers, with the downside risk that she could be jailed for treason. The court ruled in favor of freedom of the press. It is not what the DPA can do, but what they are likely to do, and dialogue goes a long way to mitigating risk and shaping appropriate positions and behavior (with integrity) on all sides.
Sam L.
On 2/19/2018 10:02 AM, benny@nordreg.se wrote:
<ironi on> Now I am relieved, we as registrars will not be subject for anything… </ironi off>
None of us know where and what they will prioritise,* remember that it only take 1 complaint to a DPA to get the snowball moving.* [emphasis added] I am sure your statement have noe value then.
-- Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
Benny Samuelsen Registry Manager - Domainexpert
Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar IANA-ID: 638 Phone: +46.42197000 <+46%2042%2019%2070%2000> Direct: +47.32260201 <+47%2032%2026%2002%2001> Mobile: +47.40410200 <+47%20404%2010%20200>
On 19 Feb 2018, at 15:29, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net> wrote:
Hi Tim,
No, completely to the contrary. My point with that dollars reference was that in some cases litigation is the preferred business response, rather than compliance and paying fines. Also, the big revenues in mining big data are outside the DNS sphere, and outside the abuses and "bad things" that websites do to people. The big EU fines are more likely to hit social media than Registrars, although they are risks there as well. The revenues, and privacy violations, will come from profiling users by mining big data for scraps of personal date to individualize target marketing.
*As a brief aside:* This goes well beyond the remit of ICANN and is actually worse than just being inundated by adverts base on personal online behavior. Artificial Intelligence mining apps are increasingly customizing the "news" one gets from news feeds, to help "glue the eyeballs" to the adverts, creating a news silo of one. (That is amusing for me since I virtually live in two towns in two countries). Even more worrisome is the growing practice for A.I. companies where A.I. "writes" the news releases, now mainly in sports and finance, for thousands of print and online news outlets. I know all of this is outside the ICANN remit so I will stop there.
Sam L.
On 2/18/2018 5:43 PM, Chen, Tim wrote:
Hi Sam,
When you say these are hundred million dollar issues for "the companies",which companies are you talking about? Large Registrars?
I hope you are not comparing cybersecurity professionals and the good work they are trying to enable, to a completely separate privacy issue around data used for ad tracking or behavior tracking across websites. If I spent my days trying to protect people on the internet from bad things, I would certainly not appreciate any allusion that I was engaged on the whois data issue 'for the money'.
Tim
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