Sam: To answer your question, here are some areas of "fat" disclosure that quickly come to mind: -- Real property ownership -- Intellectual property ownership (registration) -- Corporate contact information Development is only one of many goals that need to be kept in mind, and I'm not even sure it's an "official" one for ICANN. Consumer trust and safety are clearly enhanced by public WHOIS/RDS access. I believe that security, stability and resiliency are as well. If you have no purpose for access to WHOIS/RDS access, it's easy to say that "Anything other than a minimalist "thin" will be a source of endless pain, and for no gain." First, we've already had thick access for a very long time, and I can certainly say there is plenty of "gain" from a lot of different purposes. If there was no "pain," we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, but there are a number of ways to deal with that "pain" -- and we have to be as careful and fact-based about what the pain is as we are about the purposes for collection and disclosure are. Greg Shatan *Greg Shatan *C: 917-816-6428 S: gsshatan gregshatanipc@gmail.com On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:34 PM, sam@lanfranco.net <sam@lanfranco.net> wrote:
This difference of opinion is the crucial fork in the road here. Name one other sector, industry, or activity where "fat" disclosure takes place, or where "thin" disclosure harmed development. Anything other than a minimalist "thin" will be a source of endless pain, and for no gain.
Sam L.
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois From: Volker Greimann To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org CC:
This illustrates the basic difference of opinion:
Proposal: By not allowing the flow of WHOIS data for anything but purposes backed by legal rights to that information or required for the technical operation of the internet
1) We will strengthen the rights to private data against anyone desiring to abuse that data by claiming to have some ephemeral purpose to access that data
2) The internet economy will likely not be affected
3) By defining restrictive access requirements, we will still enable legitimate cases where access to such data is needed
Best,
Volker
Am 10.02.2017 um 17:11 schrieb nathalie coupet via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
Proposal: By allowing the flow of WHOIS data to enable as many legitimate activites as possible througout the root and main branches of the tree: 1) we will strengthen the Internet by providing peripheral purposes that protect the medium (consumer protection, research,...) 2) we will protect the Internet economy as much as possible 3) by increasing granularity, we can tackle edge cases at the edge.
Nathalie
On Friday, February 10, 2017 11:01 AM, Victoria Sheckler <vsheckler@riaa.com> <vsheckler@riaa.com> wrote:
We need to find balance and a constructive way to propose solutions, not this endless back and forth of edge cases.
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg- bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of benny@nordreg.se Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 4:44 AM To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
+1 to Volker
Spot on, we cant let the criminals endanger all innocents life by default expose data as we do today
-- Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
Benny Samuelsen Registry Manager - Domainexpert
Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar IANA-ID: 638 Phone: +46.42197080 <+46%2042%2019%2070%2080> Direct: +47.32260201 <+47%2032%2026%2002%2001> Mobile: +47.40410200 <+47%20404%2010%20200>
On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:41, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Pivoting off domain whois is my #1 valued resource in cybercrime
investigations. Judging from the amount of abuse and spam out there, it is also the #1 valued resource of spammers, cyber criminals, nigerian princes, domain slammers ,etc etc.
And that leads to the question: Is it really worth giving up the private data of all registrants to whoever wants it just to catch a few bad guys? And to answer that: I'd rather see a few criminals uncaught if that means the innocent majority will be that much less at risk to be victimized.
Best, Volker
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 12:16 PM, benny@nordreg.se <benny@nordreg.se>
wrote:
Dnsservers, domainstatus, various dates, Registrar
None of these data are personal data imo
The only info you see in Whois are the contact ID the user have at the registrar/ registry
Sent from my iPhone
On 9 Feb 2017, at 18:10, nathalie coupet <nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com> wrote:
Benny,
All personal info on personal domains are hidden by default. What are the info that remain available for public view - after personal information have been hidden by default - which still enable technical operability?
Nathalie
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:46 AM, "benny@nordreg.se" < benny@nordreg.se> wrote:
Maybe not but there are nothing who prevent us from trying to protect people from there mistakes and stupidity and still be able to have certain level of technical operability with whois data.
A good example are .se which have a whois policy where all personal info on personal domains are hidden by default. The registrant need to opt out of the privacy actively by making a decision. That might be the way we should think instead of what to do to hide data.
-- Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
Benny Samuelsen Registry Manager - Domainexpert
Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar IANA-ID: 638
Phone: +46.42197080 <+46%2042%2019%2070%2080> Direct: +47.32260201 <+47%2032%2026%2002%2001> Mobile: +47.40410200 <+47%20404%2010%20200>
On 09/02/2017, 17:38, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Greg Aaron" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of gca@icginc.com> wrote:
Is ICANN (or anyone else) responsible for protecting Spicer from himself? A lot of the articles about this subject point out that Spicer was neglectful and occasionally incompetent.
Here are some facts to consider: * Privacy protection was available and Spicer didn’t obtain it. That was his choice. * Spicer agreed to have his data published in WHOIS. So that was either OK with him, or he didn't read the terms of service in his domain registration agreement. Either way, it was his choice. * Spicer tweeted out his own Twitter password. He's responsible for that. * Spicer himself published his email address in many, many public places over the years. A simple Google search will tell you what his email address was. * Those data breaches that Volker mentions have nothing to do with domain registration data. They did not reveal domain registration data. Domain registration data didn't allow hackers to penetrate Dropbox, LinkedIn, and MySpace, and the other places where Spicer's credentials were lost over the years. Bad corporate security allowed those breaches to happen. * Spicer has a very different risk profile than the average person. He's been a prominent PR and political operative for many years (and is now working for the most scrutinized entity in the world). A key tenet of risk assessment is that exceptional cases may not justify making rules that affect everyone.
All best, --Greg
-----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg- bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 4:28 AM To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
As we tend to get lost in the thick and nitty gritty from time to time, this recent article should remind us what we are working for:
mashable.com/2017/02/07/sean-spicer-who-is
also here:
http://domainnamewire.com/2017/02/08/sean-spicer-brings-attention-wh ois-privacy/
While it could not have hit a nicer guy, he completely and accurately followed policy and look where it lead. Hi private address and telephone number as well as email address known to the world, other domains he registered for himself and his family published, etc. As his email address was compromised in no less than three leaks (plus one honorable mention on Wikileaks), and he recently tweeted his password, it may even be possible to dig deeper.
I hope this helps remind folks that getting private data out of the public view is a good thing.
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