Dear All, Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email. The MP3, Adobe Connect recording and Adobe Connect chat below for the Sub Team for Additional Marketplace RPMs call on Friday, 28 July 2017 at 16:00 UTC. Attendance and recordings of the call are also posted on agenda wiki page: MP3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-marketplace-rpm-28jul17-en.mp3 Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p5kzgm091pj/<https://participate.icann.org/p5kzgm091pj/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=e2259dfccc4b8e6813510a4843eee224bf8223df4c80f2ea947f132a6e41e51a> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-protection/ Thank you. Kind regards, Julie Adobe Connect chat transcript for 28 July 2017: Julie Bisland:Welcome to the Sub Team for Additional Marketplace RPMs on Friday, 28 July 2017 at 16:00 UTC Julie Bisland:Agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_a... David McAuley:Seems a small group so far David McAuley:Hi Mary - my phone battery is dead though Susan Payne:hello all David McAuley:wonderful - Paul and I were just about to decide everything David McAuley:was a dream only Mary Steve Levy:Hey gang Brian Cimbolic:hi Everyone David McAuley:I thought my phone was charging but alas i had mis-connected it Amr Elsadr:@Paul: That's awesome!! :D Brian Cimbolic:Agreed Paul - makes a lot of sense to me Steve Levy:Agree on gathering info, Paul Brian Cimbolic:completely agree with Susan the "be much more transparent" and "What changes might provide a clearer line" are problematic. The conclusion is baked in to the quesiton. David McAuley:revise makes sense\ Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Delete. David McAuley:my red x is for revised David McAuley:cant on phone - no phone right now David McAuley:dead battery David McAuley:I can see am outvoted - no problem Mary Wong:@David, do you have a proposed revision you can type into chat? David McAuley:not now - don't see it as critical point Brian Cimbolic:3 doesn't make sense w/o 2. Seems to build off the other. If we strike, don't think 3 can stand alone Jon Nevett:it related to additional marketplace protections Steve Levy:Asuming it means that RO's would need to gather and verify TM info on their own? David McAuley:I tend to agree w/Jon - my concern is that enough information be available about these add'l services to assess potential impact on DNS Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:It's dangerous to have a question with a purpose, I think, because we spend a lot of time arguing about "interesting" topics that are irrelevant. I think if no one can articulate WHY we need to know this to determine how effective the TMCH, etc, is. Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:*without* NOT with Paul McGrady:Could registry operators provide the same or similar Additional Marketplace Protections without the TMCH? If so, would there be any increase in costs to brand owners? Steve Levy:Good point, Kristine. I'm curious to hear an example or two of what marketplace RPMs are possible without reference to the TMCH or independent (and duplicative?) TM rights verification Jon Nevett:i'm ok with Paul's revision Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:And Steve, how does answering your question further our undertanding of how the Sunrise and Claims services are working? David McAuley:With respect to Paul's first Q, I would suggest another Q - what information regarding such services need be disclosed to assure an appropriate assessment of impact, if any, on DNS Kathy Kleiman:Where is the proposed revision of #3 written? Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:(or even the value of the TMCH) Steve Levy:If it's going to raise costs I expect customers would react and reject a particular marketplace RPM Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:then it's a free market and they can. Amr Elsadr:@Kristine: Paul put the proposed rewording in the chat, and it is also in the notes pod now. Amr Elsadr:Sorry..., that was for Kathy, not Kristine. Steve Levy:Sorry, Paul Kathy Kleiman:Addition to question: is use of the TMCH database allowed under CURRENT rules? Kathy Kleiman:What way? Mary Wong:@Kathy, I believe the current TMCH Functional Spec and Requirements specifcy how the TMDB can be accessed. Mary Wong:We can check for completeness but I believe what Jon is saying was also what Donuts and other ROs responded when the WG first polled them on their additional RPMs. Mary Wong:Following up on Jeff's and Jon's exchange, the ROs' responses essentially were that they do not have additional arrangements with Deloitte, nor do they have heightened or extra access to the TMDB to offer the additional services. Jon Nevett:i would strongly object to Kathy's wording David McAuley:I think Kathy's "how" question is important Kathy Kleiman:Are registry operators using the TMCH database and its features for Additional Marketplace Mechanisms? If so, how? Do the current adopted policy allow this use? Could registry operators provide the same or similar Additional Marketplace Protections without access to the TMCH database? If so, would there be any increase in costs to brand owners? Brian Cimbolic:whether or not something violates a policy - I'm not sure that's something for this group to determine - that seems to be more of a Compliance question Mary Wong:I'll type the poll questions here; they include: "Are you accessing data and records in the TMCH for purposes other than obtaining information necessary for the provision of sunrise and claims services in accordance with ICANN's user manuals and technical requirements?" Mary Wong:And "Are you using any capabilities of the TMCH other than for Sunrise Periods and TM Claims Notices?" Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:+1Susan Jeff Neuman:Could registries provide the same or similar services without relying on the validation services performed by the TMCH? Jeff Neuman:(But as susan said, the answer is yes) Brian Cimbolic:asking a question we know the answer to doesn't seem like the best use of time or output Jon Nevett:i'm ok keeping it or deleting it -- the fact that the answer is yes was not universally understood before this discussion Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:In other subteams we have added a note/link to the answer when it's been discovered through the course of discussion Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:That just keeps that information on record and prevents this particular rabbit hole from appearing later. Susan Payne:Actually I suppose it is relevant to know how many registries have relied on the validation services performed by the TMCH . So to the extent that isn't captured by Q1 it seems useful info when considering the "landscape" Jeff Neuman:@Paul - yes, i was just doing shorthand Jon Nevett:Kathy -- that is in Question 1, no? Jeff Neuman:There is othing in the existing plicy that states that registry operators may not rely on the validation services of the TMCH Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:@Kathy, what specific policy are you referring to? Registry services are not governed by the STI. Jeff Neuman:sorry, nothin Jeff Neuman:nothing Steve Levy:+1 Kathy David McAuley:Kathy is making an fair point and if it is in #1 then good but I think we need to be sure - perhaps in final overall wrap up f the questions. It gets confusing at times as we fine tune any one question Jeff Neuman:But, the issue is what does it mean to "use" the TMCH services? Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Agree with Kathy and Susan that we should keep the data (see my comment above to add a note like we did for other subteams) David McAuley:losing audio - anyoneelse? Mary Wong:To Susan's point, staff had sent around the relevant documentation describing how SMD files and the TMCH works. We are happy to arrange an actual tutorial (as discussed by the Sunrise Sub Team) as well if that is still deemed useful. Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:there is an echo David McAuley:Thanks Mary - I think that would be a good idea Susan Payne:Oh thank you Mary - perhaps then all we need is for people need to be encouraged to read them again Mary Wong:@Susan, @David - we will resend that information and query if there is interest in a follow up tutorial, thank you. Steve Levy:Agree Jeff but it sound duplicative (and expensive) to me Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:That information could be linked in this doc. Jeff Neuman:@Steve - perhaps, but if a source dries up, you find another source Kathy Kleiman:Not asked and answered - just asked Susan Payne:good idea kristine Jeff Neuman:@Steve - I am not saying that the TMCH shouldnt be relied upon for its validation services, but just stating that it may not be the only one. David McAuley:Agree, link makes sense. Jeff Neuman:And it by no means violates any policy to rely on the TMCH Validation services Brian Cimbolic:I disagree - this is not an ICANN enforcement agency Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:+1 Brian Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:This subteam is to gather information about how other services are affecting ICANN RPMs. Steve Levy:All good points, Jeff. I suppose it's not certain that Deloit and IBM will want to operate and maintain the TMCH forever. Especially if they're not seeing a significant profit. Jeff Neuman:This is from the STI report: "There should be no bar on theTC Service Provider or otherthird party service providersproviding ancillary services ona non-exclusive basis. " Jon Nevett:thanks Jeff Kathy Kleiman:Section 2.3 STI Report: Segregation of TC Database - The TC Service Provider should be required to maintain a separate TC database, and my not sotre any data in the TC database related to its provision of ancillary services, if any. Jeff Neuman:@kathy - as we said, it is not being USED in that way. Jon Nevett:1. it doesn't; 2. we aren't talking about ancillary services IT provides. Kathy Kleiman:bye all! David McAuley:thanks all, good bye Jon Nevett:Thhanks all Steve Levy:Thanks all. Have a good weekend! Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:good job herding the cats, Paul! Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.