I agree with J Scott. This not just about traditional market principles like a piece of land being in a choice location and the price goes up because the demand for land in the area is high. The issue here is about predatory pricing that targets rights holders. I agree that pricing for a true generic is market driven, but there have been numerous instances where domain names have been put in the “generic” bucket when they really do not belong there and the registry is clearly attempting to obtain a higher price from the rights holder. As some have already made clear, there have been situations where a domain name is priced excessively high in the sunrise period in order to deter the rights holder from acquiring it only to then have the price drop significantly in the general availability period. This may not be a TMCH issue per se, but it certainly defeats the purpose of the sunrise period as an RPM. Georges Nahitchevansky Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP The Grace Building | 1114 Avenue of the Americas | New York, NY 10036-7703 office 212 775 8720 | cell 917 291 0048 | fax 212 775 8820 ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com<mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com> | My Profile<http://www.kilpatricktownsend.com/en/Who%20We%20Are/Professionals/N/Nahitche...> | vCard<http://www.kilpatricktownsend.com/_assets/vcards/professionals/Nahitchevansk...> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul@law.es ZIMBRA Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 4:23 PM To: J. Scott Evans Cc: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH review objectives Scott, I strongly disagree. First I don't think it is bad faith and certainly not per se so as to warrant a global pricing restriction. The fact that there are potential buyers who may value a domain at a higher price is nothing but applying traditional market principles applied in virtually every other form of business. Domains are not utilities to be regulated in such manner. Nor do I see any basis to guaranty pricing for the benefit of trademark holders. Second, given that the same "TMCH data" is publicly available I don't understand the basis for focusing on TMCH as the evil source. Paul Keating On 26 Sep 2016, at 9:26 PM, J. Scott Evans <jsevans@adobe.com<mailto:jsevans@adobe.com>> wrote: Paul: Respectfully, I think you are missing some of the point here. I agree the market should operate as a free market. However, using the data in the TMCH to create lists of “premium” domains in the hope of having trademark owners pay exorbitant prices to acquire their marks is a bad faith practice that should be halted. J Scott J. Scott Evans | Associate General Counsel - Trademarks, Copyright, Domains & Marketing | Adobe 345 Park Avenue San Jose, CA 95110 408.536.5336 (tel), 408.709.6162 (cell) jsevans@adobe.com<mailto:jsevans@adobe.com> www.adobe.c<http://www.adobe.c>om From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Keating <Paul@law.es<mailto:Paul@law.es>> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 9:04 AM To: Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>>, Rebecca Tushnet <rlt26@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:rlt26@law.georgetown.edu>>, "Silver, Bradley" <Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com<mailto:Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com>>, "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH review objectives Phil, In furtherance to my last email responding to Mr. Levy, even an unreasonably priced domain is not infringing. It is important that we not mix up the concepts at issue. We are discussing both “preventative rights: and “curative rights”. The preventative rights mechanism should be severely limited because it acts as a restraint of market tendencies in the absence of actual infringement. Imposing preventative measures is akin to imposing a “prior restraint” which (certainly in the area of speech) is disfavored as a matter of public policy. The curative rights mechanism is the 2nd tool which permits rights holders to rectify an infringement that has actually occurred. Rights holders already have the ability to pursue legal claims against a registry who is intentionally targeting them by restricting access to domains other than by way of exorbitant pricing. The hurdles that the rights holders must overcome to succeed on such claims are understandably high – just as they are with any other claimant faced with a similar situation in a non-domain-related situation. However, such is life. It is not our place to alter the legal environment and create contractually-based claims that do not already exist in the law. I believe this was the import of the comment made during the last call asking to differentiate economic costs from “rights”. Sincerely, Paul Raynor Keating, Esq. Law.es<http://law.es/> Tel. +34 93 368 0247 (Spain) Tel. +44.7531.400.177 (UK) Tel. +1.415.937.0846 (US) Fax. (Europe) +34 93 396 0810 Fax. (US)(415) 358.4450 Skype: Prk-Spain email: Paul@law.es<mailto:Paul@law.es> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION SUBJECT TO THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT OR WORK-PRODUCT PRIVILEGE. THE INFORMATION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, NO WAIVER OF PRIVILEGE IS MADE OR INTENDED AND YOU ARE REQUESTED TO PLEASE DELETE THE EMAIL AND ANY ATTACHMENTS. Circular 230 Disclosure: To assure compliance with Treasury Department rules governing tax practice, we hereby inform you that any advice contained herein (including in any attachment) (1) was not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you or any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any taxpayer and (2) may not be used or referred to by you or any other person in connection with promoting, marketing or recommending to another person any transaction or matter addressed herein. NOTHING CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL SHALL CONSTITUTE THE FORMATION OF AN ATTORNEY/CLIENT RELATIONSHIP; SUCH A RELATIONSHIP MAY BE FORMED WITH THIS FIRM AND ATTORNEY ONLY BY SEPARATE FORMAL WRITTEN ENGAGEMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH THIS IS NOT. IN THE ABSENCE OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT, NOTHING CONTAINED HEREIN SHALL CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <psc@vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com>> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 5:39 PM To: Rebecca Tushnet <rlt26@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:rlt26@law.georgetown.edu>>, "Silver, Bradley" <Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com<mailto:Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com>>, "gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH review objectives I believe I just addressed that question in the email I posted – if unreasonably high sunrise pricing deters a rights holder from registering a domain corresponding to a verified TM registered in the TMCH then it may be registered in the general availability period by an infringer, which in turn imposes a variety of costs on the TM owner (including those of bringing a subsequent URS, UDRP, or judicial action) and also creates the possibility of confusion and harm for the general public. This is not to say that all Premium pricing is unreasonable, as it is generally recognized that certain words and terms have inherent additional value in the DNS context – it really requires a case by case analysis. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VlawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey From:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Rebecca Tushnet Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 11:10 AM To: Silver, Bradley; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH review objectives TMCH’s goal of “protection” against what, though? How does high pricing contribute to trademark infringement? High pricing may deter purchases of domain names, no doubt, but with what result for the system overall? Rebecca Tushnet Georgetown Law 703 593 6759 From: Silver, Bradley [mailto:Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 11:00 AM To: Rebecca Tushnet; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: RE: TMCH review objectives I would add that the question of pricing feeds into the concept of effectiveness, because if the TMCH is serving as a database for registries to target brand owners for higher pricing based on the value of their brands, then this is antithetical to the TMCH’s primary goal to provide protection for verified right holders. From:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Rebecca Tushnet Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 10:26 AM To: gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> Subject: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH review objectives Hello, all. On the last WG call, concerns about pricing of domain names during the Sunrise Period arose. This led to a question of whether pricing is within the remit of this WG – and the broader question of what the purpose of our TMCH review is. There seemed to be a desire to focus on the TMCH’s effectiveness. The predicate question, then, is: effectiveness at what? Here are some suggestions for discussion: (1) minimizing the cost of operating the system for all concerned; (2) minimizing the number of actions that ultimately need to be brought against infringing registrants; (3) minimizing the number of noninfringing registrants whose legitimate uses are blocked or deterred. If the system is reasonably balancing those objectives, I suggest, then it is effective; potential changes should be directly related to improving performance on one or more of these metrics without unduly hampering the others. 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