I think you are right that these were likely premium names. Many registries, including Donuts and Minds & Machines offered names for sale in advance of a landrush at a premium (and some even after general availability periods started). If free speech is really the "concern" here then how does premium pricing not chill speech or skew the marketplace of ideas by favoring the rich over the poor. As an aside, on the flowers example, 1-800 Flowers obtained a number of their names well after the sunrise periods ended (e.g., flowers.london, flowers.today, flowers.country and flowers.website). Moreover, a bunch of flowers extensions have either been registered to other parties or are still available (e.g., flowers.xyz, flowers.guru, flowers.nyc, flowers.domains, flowers.pet, flowers.photography, flowers.photo, flowers.place, flowers.poker. flowers.property, flowers.republican, flowers.repair etc.) It hardly seems like there has been a conspiracy to take out common words. At best you have a trademark owner that registered and acquired some domain names (including flowers.com) that correlate to its legitimate business of ordering and delivering flowers, gift baskets etc. As others have already noted, we have hashed this issue ad nauseum. Can we move on. Georges Nahitchevansky Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP The Grace Building | 1114 Avenue of the Americas | New York, NY 10036-7703 office 212 775 8720 | fax 212 775 8820 ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com | www.kilpatricktownsend.com -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 12:13 PM To: George Kirikos; gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today Importance: High Many, many new TLD registries offer “premium registrations” for names they held back from both Sunrise and Landrush. While I don’t know for sure, I suspect that Flower.deliver may have been obtained as a premium registration. J. Scott Evans 408.536.5336 (tel) 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544 Director, Associate General Counsel 408.709.6162 (cell) San Jose, CA, 95110, USA Adobe. Make It an Experience. jsevans@adobe.com www.adobe.com On 4/11/17, 5:18 AM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of George Kirikos" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of icann@leap.com> wrote: Hi folks, I believe I've found a "smoking gun", see below: On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Nahitchevansky, Georges <ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com> wrote: > > To put it bluntly, there hea been no evidence presented that bona fide brand owners are abusing the TMCH system in order to horde common terms or stiffle free speech. At best, you have a handful of speculators that gamed the system to some extent. This might be a fix or a tweek to the existing regime, but should not be a wholesle questioning of the entire system. Let' move on already. According to the launch schedule for the .DELIVERY TLD at: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fie.godaddy.... Sunrise period was from 12/2/14 at 16:00 UTC to 1/31/15 at 16:00 UTC, and EAP (Landrush) didn't begin until 2/4/15 at 16:00 UTC Consider the domain name FLOWERS.DELIVERY, registered to 1-800-FLOWERS.COM Inc., via DomainTools: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwhois.domai... Its creation date/time was 2015-02-03T22:14:41Z, which was BEFORE the EAP/Landrush date, which is strong evidence it was registered in the sunrise period. [I'm aware that the date is after the close of sunrise, however, I believe that's because all the sunrise domains were created in a batch after the sunrise period was completed; that way, if there were multiple applications for the same string, they could be auctioned, etc.] Note that Yahoo.delivery was created at the same time (within a few seconds): https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwhois.domai... Creation Date: 2015-02-03T22:14:58Z Once again predating EAP/Landrush (I'm confident that's a sunrise registration, as it would be cheaper than paying the Day 1 EAP price!). And it's the same date/time stamp as that of the US Postal Service's registration: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwhois.domai... Creation Date: 2015-02-03T22:14:26Z which once again, should have been a sunrise registration too. And in case anyone suggests that "maybe someone else gamed the system, and 1-800-Flowers.com bought it from them", the earliest WHOIS history record from DomainTools is dated 2015-02-04 (i.e. the next day) and is: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fresearch.do... Domain Name: flowers.delivery Domain ID: 9f91e929ec1c4bc09eaeccd278f2652f-D WHOIS Server: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whois.co... Referral URL: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cscgloba... Updated Date: 2015-02-03T22:14:41Z Creation Date: 2015-02-03T22:14:41Z Registry Expiry Date: 2016-02-03T22:14:41Z Sponsoring Registrar: Corporation Service Company Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 299 Domain Status: ok https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.o... Registrant ID: 1800flower Registrant Name: Domain Administrator Registrant Organization: 1-800-FLOWERS.COM, INC. Registrant Street: One Old Country Road, Suite 500 Registrant City: Carle Place Registrant State/Province: NY Registrant Postal Code: 11514 Registrant Country: US Registrant Phone: +1.5162376000 Registrant Phone Ext: Registrant Fax: +1.5162376101 Registrant Fax Ext: Registrant Email: domainadmin@1800flowers.com This is evidence that cannot be ignored, and is likely just the tip of the iceberg. There you have it, a "smoking gun". I can see why some people wanted to "move on", to perhaps prevent us from digging deep to find evidence like this, not by a "handful of speculators", but by a large brand owner like 1-800-FLOWERS.com seeking to gain priority access to a common dictionary word that is descriptive to its entire industry. Sincerely, George Kirikos 416-588-0269 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com... _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.or... _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Section 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This transmission, and any attachments, may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. 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