Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Policy and Implementation Working Principles Sub-Team call held on Thursday 12 December 2013 at 19:00 UTC: https://icann.box.com/shared/static/2tpcsccdqtjk9kqlas5b.mp3 Attendees: Michael Graham – IPC Cheryl Langdon-Orr – ALAC Alan Greenberg – At-Large Greg Shatan – IPC Chuck Gomes- RySG Nic Steinbach- RrSG Avri Doria - NCSG Apology: none ICANN staff: Mary Wong Marika Konings Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Wiki page:https://community.icann.org/x/y1V-Ag Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie Peregrine For GNSO Secretariat Adobe Chat Transcript for Thursday 12 December 2013: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, wwelcome to the Policy and IMplementation Working Principles Sub team Meeting on Thursday 12 December 2013 Nathalie Peregrine:Please be aware that there will be NO audio enabled in the AC room today, please all dial into the audio bridge passcode PI Mary Wong:There's a bit of a wait for the operator. Nathalie Peregrine:yes i waited too today Alan Greenberg:Yup, here too Alan Greenberg:3+ minutes Marika Konings:Same here... Alan Greenberg:On now Greg Shatan:I'm on as well. Greg Shatan:With apologies, I will need to get off around the half-hour. Michael R. Graham:I will as well, sorry. Nic Steinbach:trying to connect via audio now Cheryl Langdon-Orr:no dial to me either Marika Konings:@CLO - we are trying to dial out to you, but we are having some challenges reaching you Nathalie Peregrine:Cheryl, we have tried your hotel nr and they are not picking up Cheryl Langdon-Orr:chcked line I have dial tone Nathalie Peregrine:can we try your mobile? Cheryl Langdon-Orr:back in Syd Cheryl Langdon-Orr:use landline Nathalie Peregrine:ok! Cheryl Langdon-Orr:no mobile on site at home Nathalie Peregrine:I wasn't sure if you wre home yet Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Sorry Nathalie my Flt back was yesterday afternoon Nathalie Peregrine::) Nathalie Peregrine:we're setting up a dial out to your landline Cheryl Langdon-Orr:feel free to check my calendar my life is am open book to you ladies Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bog standard admin stuff that is "non-substantive"=> "execution" Michael R. Graham:In re: "0B" -- The Work Plan subgroup divided Tasks into the 5 deliverables set forth in the WG Charter. We then determined that two preliminary tasks were called for: A. Coming up with Working Definitions of Terms the WG could use in our discussions to avoid confusion and spending inordinate time discussing what we meant by those terms in our discussions, and B. Identify general "Working Principles" that we understand underlay the existing understanding of the Policy & Implementation process within the GNSO. Since these were "pre-deliverables" which we understood would change as the WG progressed in its work, we used "0" as the deliverable number. Hence: 0A and 0B in the designation of Deliverables. Cheryl Langdon-Orr:absolutly Greg... this could end up a Road Block "tool" Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes Alan the Community "Impact Test" principal is important here...and Yes I capatalised the term Alan Greenberg:@Nic, certainly HOW we make that judgement is going to be challenging, but that is a later step. Nic Steinbach:@Alan - Sounds good. I think the principle should acknowledge that affected parties should have some remedey or process to allow them to alert the impementation teams that they are affected. Nic Steinbach:is it possible that the definitions team can shed some light on "implentation" ? Nic Steinbach:at least in this context.... Nic Steinbach:i feel like we are talking about different things. Alan Greenberg:I am certainly hopeful of that.. And working hard towards that end. I was the one who suggested a focus on definitions BECAUE the words are used in such a large number of ways now. Mary Wong:@Nic, that sub-team has it as one of the words to be defined, yes. Nic Steinbach:great. it will be intresting to re-evaluate these principles in light of their definitions. Cheryl Langdon-Orr:not saying Implementation is not under a MSM it is; but that ALL componant parts of such Implementation needs to be also RE-subject to a NEW or Refreshed MSM process... Chuck Gomes:@ Greg - Agree on database Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup Greg absolutly... Chuck Gomes:I like the term policy neutral Nic Steinbach:policy neutral - like that concept Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup nice term let's usse it as a Term Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thus add to Deffinitions... Avri Doria:I don't believe there's policy neutral action Cheryl Langdon-Orr:really Avri??? the data base one??? Chuck Gomes:@ avri - Choosing a database is not policy neutral? Avri Doria:Indeed. The tool used determine the services provided and constrains interface available. Cheryl Langdon-Orr:orbthe server choicesnmor the nimber of and qualifications of staff allocatef to a task?? Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Nope that takesm us into Micronmanagement of Admin pricesses of policy implementataion to Community on a،pll things I disagree Michael R. Graham:@Alan -- Originally we had hoped the Definitions would be complete so the terms as defined could be used in these Policy discussions. Certainly, discovering additional terms or uses that require definition was anticipated, and I would not limit developing Definitions to aid in understanding and discussion to that sub-team. Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but that comes back to theproposed principal of Impact Test comes in Avri Alan Greenberg:My working definitions, which are probably NOT the ones to use in the long-term, are :POlicy: Whatever the GNSO approves in its PDP (or other methodology); Implementation design: the decisions which may impact community during the post-Policy work; Execution: the part of current implementation which is "policy neutral",. Nic Steinbach:policy, implentation, execution. Nic Steinbach:that is a product manager like flow :) like it. Greg Shatan:Consider this more of a spectrum. Policy Neutral may be like Absolute Zero. Maybe nothing is "perfectly" policy neutral. But, I will put on a sweater before absolute zero. Similarly, we need to treat things as essentially policy-neutral at some point. Alan Greenberg:@Nic, note that the last two phases may be iterative. Greg Shatan:@Avri. If there are specifications in the final report as to what the database has to do, I agree that choosing a database that fails to do it would not be policy neutral. I think we are assuming that the hypothetical databases under consideration all meet the needs expressed by the policy. Greg Shatan:And with that, I must go. Nic Steinbach:@Alan - I think we are on the same page. Greg Shatan:As Potter Stewart, might have said "I can't define policy, but I know it when I see it...." Cheryl Langdon-Orr:So true Greg...Art, Porn, and now Policy.... Michael R. Graham:I'm working on how those three go together . . . Nic Steinbach:3 Nic Steinbach:defintiely linked to 1 Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes Nic 3 is the one I have open on my desk top as I said my last comment... Nic Steinbach:can the next sub meeting include some pickeled pork! Nic Steinbach:that sounds delicious Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Nic I always photo jnl my events so you can always browse the images Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I'll share a table pic at our next call... Nic Steinbach:i am afraid to ask for a link. haven't had lunch and that sounds like torture. Nic Steinbach:looking forward to your pic next call! EnCirca - Tom Barrett:sorry guys. i had the time off by an hour. is the call still on? i'm on hold on the conf call centre Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks Marika most helpful Marika Konings:@Tom - we are wrapping up EnCirca - Tom Barrett:ok Nic Steinbach:i have to hop off - can make a call next week, but am ok with waitng until afterwards... Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bye Marika Konings:Next week we'll meet on Thursday at 21.00 UTC Marika Konings:call details will be circulated shortly ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl mailing list Gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl