Hi Barbara, Thanks for continuing the discussion on this issue. In looking again at the clarification text I shared below, and realizing that it might be helpful to frame this a little differently to explain why we are talking about “thin” Registries: The Gaining Registrar has a choice under the Transfer Policy between looking at Whois data from the Registrar of Record or the Registry. There are cases where the Gaining Registrar decides to go to the Registry rather than the Registrar of Record, even though the Registry is "thin" and displays less information than the Registrar of Record. As a result of making this choice, the Gaining Registrar does not access the necessary information to send a Gaining FOA, and proceeds with the workaround in which the Registrant manually re-enters information with the Gaining Registrar. The Registrant does not need to follow COR requirements in this scenario even if the information they enter with the Gaining Registrar is different from the information used with the Registrar of Record. Please let me know if this summary helps to clarify. Kind regards, Emily From: "Knight, Barbara" <bknight@verisign.com> Date: Thursday, 24 June 2021 at 18:44 To: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org>, "swyld@tucows.com" <swyld@tucows.com>, "gnso-tpr@icann.org" <gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: [Ext] RE: [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June:Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Hi Emily, I am fine with the clarification but still contend that for it to be accurate, you will need to change “thin” (highlighted below) to “thick” as it is my understanding that thin is intended to refer to the registry and registries that are thin do not have registrant or other contact information associated with domain names. Registrars would only be able to obtain the data from registries that are “thick”. Thanks. Regards, Barbara From: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 3:15 PM To: Knight, Barbara <bknight@verisign.com>; swyld@tucows.com; gnso-tpr@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June:Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Caution: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hi Barbara and Sarah, Please find below a clarification regarding the scenario described in charter question d3: * Gaining Registrar allows a new customer to input the Registrant information when requesting an inbound inter-registrar transfer. The information entered by the customer does not match Registration Data available in the Whois display. * In the case of “thin” domain names, the Gaining Registrar obtains information from the Registry. These two items are interrelated and describe the situation when the Losing Registrar’s RDDS displayed the registration data at the time of transfer request, and the Gaining Registrar did not use Losing Registrar’s RDDS to verify the authenticity of a transfer request, but obtained information from the Registry RDDS output and therefore registration data was not available to send a Gaining FOA (when cases involve “thin” domain names, Registry RDDS does not list the Registrant data, while Registrar RDDS still displays it). Section I.A.1.1. of the Transfer Policy states, “Registrars may use Whois data from either the Registrar of Record or the relevant Registry for the purpose of verifying the authenticity of a transfer request; or from another data source as determined by a consensus policy.” It appeared the Gaining Registrar could use either the Registrar or Registry output. This was also relevant because the Gaining Registrar would then not be required to follow COR requirements because Appendix G Section 1.2 states if the Gaining Registrar is unable to gain access to then-current Registration Data for a domain name subject of a transfer, “Registrant MUST independently re-enter Registration Data with the Gaining Registrar. In such instance, the Gaining Registrar is not REQUIRED to follow the Change of Registrant Process as provided in Section II.C. of the Transfer Policy.” Because there is no requirement in the Transfer Policy that requires a Gaining Registrar to obtain registration data from the Losing Registrar, ICANN Compliance is unable to point out a specific section when the Gaining Registrar does not apply the COR process even when the Registration Data is available from the Losing Registrar’s RDDS output. Kind regards, Emily From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Knight, Barbara via GNSO-TPR" <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Reply to: "Knight, Barbara" <bknight@verisign.com<mailto:bknight@verisign.com>> Date: Wednesday, 23 June 2021 at 20:38 To: "swyld@tucows.com<mailto:swyld@tucows.com>" <swyld@tucows.com<mailto:swyld@tucows.com>>, "gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June:Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs I agree with Sarah’s comments relating to the questions relating to DNS. With regard to the alternative language to correct the “thin” issue, I think that we have to be careful on this one. Even in cases where the Registry holds the data relating to the registrant and admin contacts, technically, the registrar data is authoritative. Further, if there is a proxy or privacy service or the data is redacted due to privacy laws, the registry would most likely not have the underlying data. Given this, I am not sure what the answer is on how to clarify. Regards, Barbara From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Sarah Wyld Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 2:08 PM To: Roger D Carney via GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June:Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Caution: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hi all, I thought we had confirmed at recent meetings that transferring DNS settings is not in scope for this PDP as it was not included in the scoping paper, issues report, etc. As such, I’m concerned that if we add in questions on that topic to our request for early input it will confuse responders and set inaccurate expectations about what is in scope here. I do agree with the comment on point d4, "thin” is out of place. Perhaps it could say “In cases where the Registry holds registration data, the Gaining Registrar obtains information from the Registry.” Thanks, -- Sarah Wyld, CIPP/E Policy & Privacy Manager Pronouns: she/her swyld@tucows.com<mailto:swyld@tucows.com> +1.416 535 0123 Ext. 1392 [cid:image001.png@01D7683D.15EFCD90] From: Steve Crocker<mailto:steve@shinkuro.com> Sent: June 23, 2021 1:54 PM To: Emily Barabas<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org> Cc: gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org> Subject: Re: [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June:Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Emily, et al, I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a change of registrar. I was not able to edit the document directly via Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes. Tracking is turned on. I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I used the letter x. I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's focused specifically on a change of registrant. The question of coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of registrar without a change of registrant. Thanks, Steve On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> wrote: Dear Working Group members, Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the outreach letter to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-...> As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond. Please feel free to reach out with any questions. Kind regards, Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry From: GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: [GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Dear Working Group members, As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, please add these questions to the Google Doc no later than this Thursday, 24 June: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-...> Kind regards, Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry From: Emily Barabas <emily.barabas@icann.org<mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org>> Date: Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28 To: "gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>" <gnso-tpr@icann.org<mailto:gnso-tpr@icann.org>> Subject: Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs Dear Working Group members, As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=s... [drive.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-...> If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that have been proposed by other members. Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021. The Working Group call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission to the SO/AC/SG/Cs. Kind regards, Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry Emily Barabas Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976 www.icann.org [secure-web.cisco.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/secure-web.cisco.com/1oS_8dAlACq_cWvUqN4f7...> _______________________________________________ GNSO-TPR mailing list GNSO-TPR@icann.org<mailto:GNSO-TPR@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-tpr [secure-web.cisco.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/secure-web.cisco.com/1ILLIILxFHVpSlgFinNd...>