Charter version 4
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa. We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton). We can discuss this further in the group meeting today. Thanks, all. Jari
Jari: Thanks, this version is improved, but I think still fails to properly treat the non-operational communities. I have provided language related to categorizing communities as those which have operational relationships with IANA and those that may be impacted by those relationships. This is an important distinction as it will play a role in who requirements for proposals are directed at. That being said there also remains a need to specifically call out the role and consultation process with those impacted groups in the creation of the proposal. Proposed language already was submitted in my version Daft 4 on these topics. Joe On 7/18/2014 3:06 AM, Jari Arkko wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
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I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other. Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time? Jari? Thanks! Paul. ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100 See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38 On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
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My impression is that version 4 as distributed by Jari at 8:07 am supersedes v.3 fully and that all of the comments and calls for modification directed at v.3 were taken into account -----Original Message----- From: internal-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Wilson
I'm a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other. Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time?
I’m sorry for the crossing e-mails. I believe my e-mail that started this thread contained a version where we had addressed everything that we had heard by that time. There are two exceptions: 1) There was e-mail discussion about the word “legitimate” that has not been acted upon. The group needs to make a decision, but I think based on e-mail discussion that was pretty obvious. 2) We’ve had discussion with Joe about introductory paragraph(s) and balancing of the text between the three communities and others. I talked to Joe and Alissa before the meeting, and I think we all agree on the goals, but some further tuning of the text is needed. Hope this clarifies. Jari
-----Original Message-----
1) There was e-mail discussion about the word "legitimate" that has not been acted upon. The group needs to make a decision, but I think based on e-mail discussion that was pretty obvious.
Based on this email traffic I initiated an inquiry in my stakeholder group and they would be pretty upset if the word "legitimacy" is struck. I think it shows a certain political insensitivity on the part of the technical community to pretend as if legitimacy issues with ICANN do not exist or are not important. Further, I find the main rationale for fearing the word legitimacy - the idea that it somehow supports governmental oversight - to be prima facie false, a kind of strange and idiosyncratic aspect of ICANN culture. Here is the common dictionary definition of legitimacy: "In political science, legitimacy is the popular acceptance of an authority, usually a governing law or a régime." The key operant phrase here is "popular acceptance of an authority." IANA is a regime. The last "A" in IANA stands for "Authority" We want and need popular acceptance of whatever authority the new, post-NTIA IANA has. Thus, unless a better rationale for removing the word is provided I would strongly oppose it.
Milton in the broad policy-making activities that I engage in, legitimate often has that compliance with rules/regulation connotation. Is there another word or words that approximate what you are looking for that may not carry the unintentional baggage? On 7/18/2014 4:48 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
-----Original Message-----
1) There was e-mail discussion about the word "legitimate" that has not been acted upon. The group needs to make a decision, but I think based on e-mail discussion that was pretty obvious. Based on this email traffic I initiated an inquiry in my stakeholder group and they would be pretty upset if the word "legitimacy" is struck. I think it shows a certain political insensitivity on the part of the technical community to pretend as if legitimacy issues with ICANN do not exist or are not important. Further, I find the main rationale for fearing the word legitimacy - the idea that it somehow supports governmental oversight - to be prima facie false, a kind of strange and idiosyncratic aspect of ICANN culture.
Here is the common dictionary definition of legitimacy: "In political science, legitimacy is the popular acceptance of an authority, usually a governing law or a régime."
The key operant phrase here is "popular acceptance of an authority." IANA is a regime. The last "A" in IANA stands for "Authority" We want and need popular acceptance of whatever authority the new, post-NTIA IANA has.
Thus, unless a better rationale for removing the word is provided I would strongly oppose it.
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I seem to have a version with a file name of v4 but its tewxt says v3... definitely confused Narelle ________________________________________ From: internal-cg-bounces@icann.org [internal-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Wilson [pwilson@apnic.net] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 6:19 PM To: Jari Arkko Cc: <internal-cg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Charter version 4 I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other. Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time? Jari? Thanks! Paul. ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100 See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38 On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
<charterv4.docx> _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
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Yes, Jari forgot to change the version number internally, but it is v.4 as its filename says -----Original Message----- From: internal-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Narelle Clark Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 5:01 AM To: Paul Wilson; Jari Arkko Cc: <internal-cg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Charter version 4 I seem to have a version with a file name of v4 but its tewxt says v3... definitely confused Narelle ________________________________________ From: internal-cg-bounces@icann.org [internal-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Wilson [pwilson@apnic.net] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2014 6:19 PM To: Jari Arkko Cc: <internal-cg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Charter version 4 I'm a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other. Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time? Jari? Thanks! Paul. ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100 See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38 On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
<charterv4.docx> _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
_______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
Words I suggested are: The coordination group has five main tasks: (i) Act as liaison to all interested parties, including the directly affected “operational communities” (ie. Those with direct operational, service or contractual relationships with IANA; namely names, numbers, protocols) (ii) Solicit proposals from operational communities, and inputs from others. (iii) Assess the outputs of the operational communities for compatibility and interoperability (iv) Assemble a complete proposal for the transition (v) Information sharing and public communication ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100 See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38 On 18 Jul 2014, at 6:19 pm, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other.
Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time?
Jari?
Thanks!
Paul.
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
<charterv4.docx> _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
+1 to Paul wording On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
Words I suggested are:
The coordination group has five main tasks:
(i) Act as liaison to all interested parties, including the directly affected “operational communities” (ie. Those with direct operational, service or contractual relationships with IANA; namely names, numbers, protocols) (ii) Solicit proposals from operational communities, and inputs from others. (iii) Assess the outputs of the operational communities for compatibility and interoperability (iv) Assemble a complete proposal for the transition (v) Information sharing and public communication
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 6:19 pm, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other.
Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time?
Jari?
Thanks!
Paul.
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
<charterv4.docx> _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
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I support as well with removing “directly affected” and the word “contractual” in (i) as just discussed. - a. On Jul 18, 2014, at 13:05 PM, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
Words I suggested are:
The coordination group has five main tasks:
(i) Act as liaison to all interested parties, including the directly affected “operational communities” (ie. Those with direct operational, service or contractual relationships with IANA; namely names, numbers, protocols) (ii) Solicit proposals from operational communities, and inputs from others. (iii) Assess the outputs of the operational communities for compatibility and interoperability (iv) Assemble a complete proposal for the transition (v) Information sharing and public communication
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 6:19 pm, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other.
Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time?
Jari?
Thanks!
Paul.
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
<charterv4.docx> _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
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+1, for the record. On 18 Jul 2014, at 7:21 pm, Adiel Akplogan <adiel@afrinic.net> wrote:
I support as well with removing “directly affected” and the word “contractual” in (i) as just discussed.
- a. On Jul 18, 2014, at 13:05 PM, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
Words I suggested are:
The coordination group has five main tasks:
(i) Act as liaison to all interested parties, including the directly affected “operational communities” (ie. Those with direct operational, service or contractual relationships with IANA; namely names, numbers, protocols) (ii) Solicit proposals from operational communities, and inputs from others. (iii) Assess the outputs of the operational communities for compatibility and interoperability (iv) Assemble a complete proposal for the transition (v) Information sharing and public communication
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 6:19 pm, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other.
Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time?
Jari?
Thanks!
Paul.
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
<charterv4.docx> _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg
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One more bullet would be the following: Solicit the input of the broad group of communities affected by the IANA functions While no set of formal requirements related to a transition proposal will be requested of the non "operational communities" , their input is welcome across all topics, with the request that they channel their input through their community liaisons. This proposal and Pauls ii could be sub bullets to i... Joe On 7/18/2014 5:24 AM, Paul Wilson wrote:
+1, for the record.
On 18 Jul 2014, at 7:21 pm, Adiel Akplogan <adiel@afrinic.net> wrote:
I support as well with removing “directly affected” and the word “contractual” in (i) as just discussed.
- a. On Jul 18, 2014, at 13:05 PM, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
Words I suggested are:
The coordination group has five main tasks:
(i) Act as liaison to all interested parties, including the directly affected “operational communities” (ie. Those with direct operational, service or contractual relationships with IANA; namely names, numbers, protocols) (ii) Solicit proposals from operational communities, and inputs from others. (iii) Assess the outputs of the operational communities for compatibility and interoperability (iv) Assemble a complete proposal for the transition (v) Information sharing and public communication
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 6:19 pm, Paul Wilson <pwilson@apnic.net> wrote:
I’m a little confused by the v3 and v4 emails crossing over each other.
Can we clarify or reconcile these quickly so we are all looking at the same version at the same time?
Jari?
Thanks!
Paul.
________________________________________________________________________ Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC <dg@apnic.net> http://www.apnic.net +61 7 3858 3100
See you at APNIC 38! http://conference.apnic.net/38
On 18 Jul 2014, at 5:06 pm, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:
Version 4 after a breakfast meeting with Milton, Mary, and Alissa.
We have I believe gone through all comments (in some cases making our own version of the suggested change, however). Change marks are turned on in the document, so you see what has been done. The scope language edited yesterday by the group has also been included (with small edits from Milton).
We can discuss this further in the group meeting today.
Thanks, all.
Jari
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participants (7)
-
Adiel Akplogan -
demi getschko -
Jari Arkko -
joseph alhadeff -
Milton L Mueller -
Narelle Clark -
Paul Wilson