=? Iso-8859-1? Q? Comnetarios_p = FAblicos_sobre = 3D__? == Iso-8859-1? Q? Draft_Statement_on_ICANN = 27s_role_and_remit_in_SSR? =
[[--Translated text (es -> en)--]] Subject: =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Comnetarios_p = FAblicos_sobre = 3D__? == Iso-8859-1? Q? Draft_Statement_on_ICANN = 27s_role_and_remit_in_SSR? = From: sylvia@internautabrasil.org Dear Members of LACRALO Vena There follows a reminder sent to us by the Vice for Latin America ICANN, Rodrigo de la Parra: Friends, We have published a document estsujeto audience to comment on the role that ICANN should have regard to the Stability and Safety nical devices, Internet identifiers. Much agradecerdifundir them among its members, communities and friends stakeholders this document to encourage their participation. From already thank you very much, -------------------------- Rodrigo de la Parra <mailto:rodrigo.delaparra@icann.org> rodrigo.delaparra @ icann.org Vice President for Latin America Vice President for Latin America ICANN One World, One Internet We send our comments by June 16 at 23:59 UTC! http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-comment/draft-ssr-role-remit-17may12-en. htm The who are interested in this issue individually can make their comments in any language directly draft-ssr-role-remit@icann.org or contact the manager of ICANN Staff Patrick Jones patrick.jones @ icann.org <mailto:patrick.jones@icann.org?subject=More%20information%20on%20the%20DRAF T% 20Statement% 20of% 20ICANN% 27s% 20and% 20Remit 20Role% 20in% 20Security%,% 20Stabi lity% 20and% 20Resiliency% 20of% 20the% 20Internet% 27s% 20Unique% 20Identifier% 20Sy stems% 20Public% 20period 20comment%> The who are interested in forming a working group and need support logstico, come into contact with secreted. No more Sylvia ___________________________________________________ Sylvia Herlein <mailto:sylvia@internautabrasil.org> sylvia@internautabrasil.org LACRALO Secretary-ICANN / 2012-2013 - <http://atlarge.icann.org> http://atlarge.icann.org 2009-2012 Secretary FLUI sylvia_leite = Skype Descrio: Assinatura_Sylvia_Internautabrasil [[--Original text (es) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/d2dd4a17bd.html --]]
Hello to all members, It has become hard not to notice what may be called a flexing of the Latin American muscle. First an attempt to ignore the fact that English is the official language and I am seeing statements from working groups that a decision is to be made about which language the group would work in. If the official language of ICANN is English, it is important that English is used and not a mixture of German, Spanish, French or otherwise as words have different meanings and connotations in different language. This is important so as to be consistent. It does not matter which language, whichever language is used, it must not be compromised. We cannot be understanding something as English allows and then somebody else understanding it a different way because of language or interpretation differences. For example, I am hearing reference to the Chairman as President, where it is said that the Spanish translation for "the Chairman" is "el Presidente". In English, there is a clear distinction between a Chairman and a President, just as there is a difference between "sovereign" and the "highest-decision making body" of an organisation. The highest decision making body in any organisation is also subject to rules. It cannot even breach its own rules and as a matter of fact, will be judged on how well it has been able to observe its own rules. First, when I look at the rules of the LACRALO, the Chairman is erroneously referred to as the President. This is where the corruption of the word Chairman begins as it moves from el presidente the chairman, to President. Then, in assuming office, the chairman begins to act like he is a president, but when you look at the RoP, the role of the chairman is clearly not an executive one, but a role, a task to perform. Second, the word sovereign has no place in the democratic process. Democracy is not about sovereignty but more about cooperation, dialogue, collaboration, consultations and consensus. Sovereignty connotes arbitrary rule, absolute rule, a divine right to rule, etc. whereas, democracy is about the rule of the people and quite contrary to most popular beliefs, not about the rule of the majority either. It is about the RULE OF THE PEOPLE. In any society, there are many different people. People are not usually of one mind. They have diverse interests and hence they have to come together, consult, dialogue and continue to work with one another for the benefit of all. In any democracy, minorities especially must have a voice and it would seem that the LAs, even though they are saying democracy, obviously do not understand what the word means. This was demonstrated by Jose as Chair of the GA in one of many incidents, when he refused questions on a motion and declared that only voting will take place. Then after the vote, somebody proceeded to ask for clarifications on what was just voted for. That in itself is madness and certainly a lack of appreciation for democratic procedure, because after voting, nobody should be asking for clarifications. Everybody should be clear about what they are voting for before the vote. I therefore do not support his election as Chairman of LACRALO and given the dictatorial behaviour of the Secretariat, I question their understanding of democracy. While these people as personalities are quite hospitable and friendly, this rush to politicise LACRALO is not welcomed. As a person who is accustomed to democratic procedures and process (it is my daily life), it is beneath my dignity to participate in any organisation where the elected think that they have autocratic rule and simple democratic rules of procedures are unknown. We are not accustomed to this. We are not accustomed to people who try to empower themselves to make decisions that will impact others and rely on their authority to flout rules and do as they like. These matters are too elementary and I have no intention to be participating in meetings where people are not respected and are expected to do what they are told. I left my childhood more that 40 years ago, never to return. Therefore my participation in LACRALO will be very minimal if any. I can't take the childishness associated with the politicisation of LACRALO. Finally, in the same way that country coefficients have been applied to ensure that each country has only one vote, is the same way that LA should not hold all the elected officers. It is LA & C. Right now it is only LA. The C is missing and I am among the C. many of my colleagues have taken the same position including those that went to CR and therefore, when the aftermath of CR should be more participation, we are not even able to achieve this given. I therefore object to this politicisation of LACRALO and give notice that not participating is not for lack of interest but in protest of the politicisation. I will sit with you at a party, I will sit and chat, but not at LACRALO meetings until those charged with its management understand how to manage in a democratic manner. ROK Roosevelt O. King Secretary General Barbados Association of Non Governmental Organisations #10 Garrison, St. Michael Barbados, Caribbean Tel: 247-822-7707 / 254-5815 e-mail: admin@bango.org.bb Network: http://bangoonline.igloocommunities.com
Dear All, Think this email didn't make it to the ES list, so re-forwarding again "as is" in the hopes it will be seen on the ES list - Dev Anand ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <admin at bango.org.bb> Date: Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:31 PM Subject: [lac-discuss-en] All Latin America To: lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org Hello to all members, It has become hard not to notice what may be called a flexing of the Latin American muscle. First an attempt to ignore the fact that English is the official language and I am seeing statements from working groups that a decision is to be made about which language the group would work in. If the official language of ICANN is English, it is important that English is used and not a mixture of German, Spanish, French or otherwise as words have different meanings and connotations in different language. This is important so as to be consistent. It does not matter which language, whichever language is used, it must not be compromised. We cannot be understanding something as English allows and then somebody else understanding it a different way because of language or interpretation differences. For example, I am hearing reference to the Chairman as President, where it is said that the Spanish translation for "the Chairman" is "el Presidente". In English, there is a clear distinction between a Chairman and a President, just as there is a difference between "sovereign" and the "highest-decision making body" of an organisation. The highest decision making body in any organisation is also subject to rules. It cannot even breach its own rules and as a matter of fact, will be judged on how well it has been able to observe its own rules. First, when I look at the rules of the LACRALO, the Chairman is erroneously referred to as the President. This is where the corruption of the word Chairman begins as it moves from el presidente the chairman, to President. Then, in assuming office, the chairman begins to act like he is a president, but when you look at the RoP, the role of the chairman is clearly not an executive one, but a role, a task to perform. Second, the word sovereign has no place in the democratic process. Democracy is not about sovereignty but more about cooperation, dialogue, collaboration, consultations and consensus. Sovereignty connotes arbitrary rule, absolute rule, a divine right to rule, etc. whereas, democracy is about the rule of the people and quite contrary to most popular beliefs, not about the rule of the majority either. It is about the RULE OF THE PEOPLE. In any society, there are many different people. People are not usually of one mind. They have diverse interests and hence they have to come together, consult, dialogue and continue to work with one another for the benefit of all. In any democracy, minorities especially must have a voice and it would seem that the LAs, even though they are saying democracy, obviously do not understand what the word means. This was demonstrated by Jose as Chair of the GA in one of many incidents, when he refused questions on a motion and declared that only voting will take place. Then after the vote, somebody proceeded to ask for clarifications on what was just voted for. That in itself is madness and certainly a lack of appreciation for democratic procedure, because after voting, nobody should be asking for clarifications. Everybody should be clear about what they are voting for before the vote. I therefore do not support his election as Chairman of LACRALO and given the dictatorial behaviour of the Secretariat, I question their understanding of democracy. While these people as personalities are quite hospitable and friendly, this rush to politicise LACRALO is not welcomed. As a person who is accustomed to democratic procedures and process (it is my daily life), it is beneath my dignity to participate in any organisation where the elected think that they have autocratic rule and simple democratic rules of procedures are unknown. We are not accustomed to this. We are not accustomed to people who try to empower themselves to make decisions that will impact others and rely on their authority to flout rules and do as they like. These matters are too elementary and I have no intention to be participating in meetings where people are not respected and are expected to do what they are told. I left my childhood more that 40 years ago, never to return. Therefore my participation in LACRALO will be very minimal if any. I can't take the childishness associated with the politicisation of LACRALO. Finally, in the same way that country coefficients have been applied to ensure that each country has only one vote, is the same way that LA should not hold all the elected officers. It is LA & C. Right now it is only LA. The C is missing and I am among the C. many of my colleagues have taken the same position including those that went to CR and therefore, when the aftermath of CR should be more participation, we are not even able to achieve this given. I therefore object to this politicisation of LACRALO and give notice that not participating is not for lack of interest but in protest of the politicisation. I will sit with you at a party, I will sit and chat, but not at LACRALO meetings until those charged with its management understand how to manage in a democratic manner. ROK Roosevelt O. King Secretary General Barbados Association of Non Governmental Organisations #10 Garrison, St. Michael Barbados, Caribbean Tel: 247-822-7707 / 254-5815 e-mail: admin at bango.org.bb Network: http://bangoonline.igloocommunities.com _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-en mailing list lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en
[Spanish Version] Estimado Roosevelt: He leído su presentación bien escrita con un cierto interés, aunque sólo sea porque comparto algunas de sus preocupaciones. Elcontenido y el contexto es muy claro en Inglés. Pero no veo donde puede haber sido masacrados por la traducción. Yo lo creo que debería tener la oportunidad de una audiencia más amplia que lo he presentado en el motor de Google Translate y re-publicado a la lista de Lengua Española. Algunas de estas mismas preocupaciones que ha planteado han sido identificados hasta ahora por los demás, sobre todo, Jacqueline Morris, Lance Hinds Lance, Cintra Sooknanan y Dev Anand Teelucksingh. También he compartido mis puntos de vista sobrelas teleconferencias, el de Adobe Connect de chat, así como un correo electrónico de circulación limitada dirigida a varias personalidades LACRALO líderes, de ALAC Chair y el ICANN Ombudsman. Si tienes la suerte - o, posiblemente, tratados como los otros antes que yo - estos comentarios a sus sinceros no atraerá la denunciadura que la mía recibido de José Arce, Leite Silvia y Sergio Salinas Porto, me llamaron mentiroso y de división. Esos cargos son libelo de sangre. Y tengo la intención de extraer la sangre cuando respondo a mis críticos con las pruebas y los hechos de sus propias palabras y escritos. Ánimo. - Carlton Samuels ================================== *English Version:* Dear Roosevelt: I read your well-written submission with a certain interest, if only because I share some of your concerns. The content and context is very clear in English. But I see where it may have been butchered by the translation. I so believe it should have a chance of a wider audience that I have submitted it to the Google Translate engine and re-posted it to the Spanish Language list. Some of these same concerns you raised have been identified before now by others, notably Jacqueline Morris, Lance Hinds, Cintra Sooknanan and Dev Anand Teelucksingh. I have also shared my views on teleconferences, the Adobe Connect chat as well as a limited circulation email addressed to several leading LACRALO personalities, the ALAC Chair and the ICANN Ombudsman. If you are lucky - or possibly treated like the others before me - these your sincere comments will not attract the harsh denunciation that mine received from Jose Arce, Sylvia Leite and Sergio Salinas Porto; I was called a liar and divisive. Those charges are blood libel. And I intend to draw blood when I answer my critics with the evidence and the facts from their own words and writings. Take heart. - Carlton Samuels ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 5:31 PM, <admin@bango.org.bb> wrote:
Hello to all members,
It has become hard not to notice what may be called a flexing of the Latin American muscle. First an attempt to ignore the fact that English is the official language and I am seeing statements from working groups that a decision is to be made about which language the group would work in. If the official language of ICANN is English, it is important that English is used and not a mixture of German, Spanish, French or otherwise as words have different meanings and connotations in different language. This is important so as to be consistent. It does not matter which language, whichever language is used, it must not be compromised. We cannot be understanding something as English allows and then somebody else understanding it a different way because of language or interpretation differences.
For example, I am hearing reference to the Chairman as President, where it is said that the Spanish translation for "the Chairman" is "el Presidente". In English, there is a clear distinction between a Chairman and a President, just as there is a difference between "sovereign" and the "highest-decision making body" of an organisation. The highest decision making body in any organisation is also subject to rules. It cannot even breach its own rules and as a matter of fact, will be judged on how well it has been able to observe its own rules.
First, when I look at the rules of the LACRALO, the Chairman is erroneously referred to as the President. This is where the corruption of the word Chairman begins as it moves from el presidente the chairman, to President. Then, in assuming office, the chairman begins to act like he is a president, but when you look at the RoP, the role of the chairman is clearly not an executive one, but a role, a task to perform.
Second, the word sovereign has no place in the democratic process. Democracy is not about sovereignty but more about cooperation, dialogue, collaboration, consultations and consensus. Sovereignty connotes arbitrary rule, absolute rule, a divine right to rule, etc. whereas, democracy is about the rule of the people and quite contrary to most popular beliefs, not about the rule of the majority either. It is about the RULE OF THE PEOPLE.
In any society, there are many different people. People are not usually of one mind. They have diverse interests and hence they have to come together, consult, dialogue and continue to work with one another for the benefit of all. In any democracy, minorities especially must have a voice and it would seem that the LAs, even though they are saying democracy, obviously do not understand what the word means. This was demonstrated by Jose as Chair of the GA in one of many incidents, when he refused questions on a motion and declared that only voting will take place. Then after the vote, somebody proceeded to ask for clarifications on what was just voted for. That in itself is madness and certainly a lack of appreciation for democratic procedure, because after voting, nobody should be asking for clarifications. Everybody should be clear about what they are voting for before the vote.
I therefore do not support his election as Chairman of LACRALO and given the dictatorial behaviour of the Secretariat, I question their understanding of democracy. While these people as personalities are quite hospitable and friendly, this rush to politicise LACRALO is not welcomed.
As a person who is accustomed to democratic procedures and process (it is my daily life), it is beneath my dignity to participate in any organisation where the elected think that they have autocratic rule and simple democratic rules of procedures are unknown. We are not accustomed to this. We are not accustomed to people who try to empower themselves to make decisions that will impact others and rely on their authority to flout rules and do as they like.
These matters are too elementary and I have no intention to be participating in meetings where people are not respected and are expected to do what they are told. I left my childhood more that 40 years ago, never to return. Therefore my participation in LACRALO will be very minimal if any. I can't take the childishness associated with the politicisation of LACRALO.
Finally, in the same way that country coefficients have been applied to ensure that each country has only one vote, is the same way that LA should not hold all the elected officers. It is LA & C. Right now it is only LA. The C is missing and I am among the C. many of my colleagues have taken the same position including those that went to CR and therefore, when the aftermath of CR should be more participation, we are not even able to achieve this given.
I therefore object to this politicisation of LACRALO and give notice that not participating is not for lack of interest but in protest of the politicisation. I will sit with you at a party, I will sit and chat, but not at LACRALO meetings until those charged with its management understand how to manage in a democratic manner.
ROK Roosevelt O. King Secretary General Barbados Association of Non Governmental Organisations #10 Garrison, St. Michael Barbados, Caribbean Tel: 247-822-7707 / 254-5815 e-mail: admin@bango.org.bb Network: http://bangoonline.igloocommunities.com
_______________________________________________ lac-discuss-en mailing list lac-discuss-en@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en
participants (4)
-
admin＠bango.org.bb -
Carlton Samuels -
Dev Anand Teelucksingh -
sylvia＠internautabrasil.org