Hi, this statement should not be ratified "as is"; instead, the following (at least) should be submitted: 1. the review must be performed including as reviewers parties designated by processes independent of all SO's and AC's. The vetting process through the SO's and AC's in the recent years (since it was instituted) has given rise to more insidership than ever and this in turn has weakened the reviews to the point of making some of them unworkable. The Board must be at freedom to designate external members. 2. The paragraph on "consideration of how the review reviews AC's and SO's should be omitted. ALL of ICANN should be reviewed with the same level of rigorous evaluation. THAT is what "HOLISTIC" means. 3. The objectives of the review must include "simplification of all ICANN processes to the utmost achievable level" lest it end up, as the previous ATRT's (we already have three!!), in more bureaucracy and more make-work. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 9:54 AM Claire Craig <claireccraig@gmail.com> wrote:

Please review the Draft LACRALO position on the Pilot Holistic Review and provide your comments and feed. It would be appreciated if you can send today as a matter of urgency.

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 12:16, <silvia.vivanco@icann.org> wrote:

...

[[-- Translated text (en -> es) --]]

Estimados,

Consulte el documento de Google: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12kNCFCBca63eeAZbgBvvVXNLsFGbOUxzWc229o22... [docs.google.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/12kNCFCBca63ee...> con el borrador de la declaración del ALAC sobre los TOR de revisión holística. Nota: Los comentarios de importancia crítica solo se aceptarán hasta las 23:59 UTC del 11 de octubre de 2022.

¡Muchos gracias!

Personal general Personal de políticas de la ICANN en apoyo de la comunidad At-Large Sitio web: atlarge.icann.org [atlarge.icann.org] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/atlarge.icann.org/__;!!PtGJab4!tDPXhqVORP...

...

Facebook: facebook.com/icann [facebook.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/icannatlarge__;!!PtGJab4...> en grande [facebook.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/icannatlarge__;!!PtGJab4...

...

Twitter: @ [twitter.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge__;!!PtGJab4!tDPX...> ICANNatLarge [twitter.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge__;!!PtGJab4!tDPX...

...

_______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es

http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

_______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es

http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I was reminded that the only official ways of submitting our comments is either here on the mail list or on the WiKi page created for that purpose. Those who commented on the WhatsApp chat please post your submission in response to the LACRALO statement in either of those channels so that there is an official record. CCC On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 at 14:27, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty@gmail.com> wrote:

Claire,

I have now made this submission as a personal one.

I do formally request that you record and transmit it as a dissenting input. If any one else adheres please state so.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:02 PM Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

this statement should not be ratified "as is"; instead, the following (at least) should be submitted:

1. the review must be performed including as reviewers parties designated by processes independent of all SO's and AC's. The vetting process through the SO's and AC's in the recent years (since it was instituted) has given rise to more insidership than ever and this in turn has weakened the reviews to the point of making some of them unworkable. The Board must be at freedom to designate external members. 2. The paragraph on "consideration of how the review reviews AC's and SO's should be omitted. ALL of ICANN should be reviewed with the same level of rigorous evaluation. THAT is what "HOLISTIC" means. 3. The objectives of the review must include "simplification of all ICANN processes to the utmost achievable level" lest it end up, as the previous ATRT's (we already have three!!), in more bureaucracy and more make-work.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 9:54 AM Claire Craig <claireccraig@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Please review the Draft LACRALO position on the Pilot Holistic Review and provide your comments and feed. It would be appreciated if you can send today as a matter of urgency.

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 12:16, <silvia.vivanco@icann.org> wrote:

...

[[-- Translated text (en -> es) --]]

Estimados,

Consulte el documento de Google: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12kNCFCBca63eeAZbgBvvVXNLsFGbOUxzWc229o22... [docs.google.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/12kNCFCBca63ee...> con el borrador de la declaración del ALAC sobre los TOR de revisión holística. Nota: Los comentarios de importancia crítica solo se aceptarán hasta las 23:59 UTC del 11 de octubre de 2022.

¡Muchos gracias!

Personal general Personal de políticas de la ICANN en apoyo de la comunidad At-Large Sitio web: atlarge.icann.org [atlarge.icann.org] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/atlarge.icann.org/__;!!PtGJab4!tDPXhqVORP...

...

Facebook: facebook.com/icann [facebook.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/icannatlarge__;!!PtGJab4...> en grande [facebook.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/icannatlarge__;!!PtGJab4...

...

Twitter: @ [twitter.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge__;!!PtGJab4!tDPX...> ICANNatLarge [twitter.com] < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge__;!!PtGJab4!tDPX...

...

_______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es

http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

_______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es

http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Dear Alvaro, thanks for the news of your support to my motion. It should have been subjected to a vote. Now the least we can expect is for Claire or other of our leaders to record it themselves in the comments site, with attribution if they do not support it themselves. It should also be underlined with stark emphasis that not everybody in this community is communicating through any of the several simultaneously existing WhatsApp groups. They are created circumstantially, with the stated purpose of coordination for the meetings and other logistical arrangements. For many, WhatsApp is an unwanted extension of the threat surface, not allowed on a work computer, etc. It leaves no record in ICANN and is repudiated by some people who do not desire to have their communications under the umbrella of the Meta corporation. The only communications of record of LACRALO are in this mailing list and the Wikis and other tools provided by ICANN. Alejandro Pisanty ________________________________ De: lac-discuss-es <lac-discuss-es-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> en nombre de Aguilar via lac-discuss-es <lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Enviado: sábado, 15 de octubre de 2022 07:09 p. m. Para: Alejandro Pisanty; Claire Craig CC: LACRALO discussion list; lac-discuss-es@icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] [lac-discuss-en] OPEN for comments through 11 October 2022 - ALAC statement on the Holistic Review TOR Unfortunately I was campaigning out of town during 7-11oct22 and unable to respond on time. I was about to ignore this matter during my weekly review of LACRALO emails until I read some articles<https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/12/the-false-promise-of-h...> on Holistic Reviews so I actually read the whole : A)Final ATRT3 report as published, sent by Silvia, B)The Terms of Reference as the drafting team representing ATRT3 published- https://community.icann.org/display/atrt/Holistic+Review+Pilot+Project Based on that, I : - support Alejandro Pisanty's 12oct22 comments , - recommend changing the term Holist to Holistic in the Claire's LACRALO draft position on the Pilot Holistic Review.docx I have no access to Wiki or Whatsapp group. Regards, Alvaro ________________________________ Alvaro Aguilar Alfú - Attorney at Law Whatsapp / Telegram: +507 6217-2003 Skype lagcentral / L<http://pa.linkedin.com/in/panamalaw>inkedin<http://pa.linkedin.com/in/panamalaw> / Twitter<https://twitter.com/AlvaroAguilar3A/> Airmail address: P.O.Box 0831-1110, Panama 0831, Panama Courier address: Aquilino de la Guardia St. Ocean Business Plaza, 12th Floor, Panama City, Panama http://www.alvaroaguilar.net <http://www.alvaroaguilar.net/> ________________________________ The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the author's own and may not reflect those of the firm. The information contained may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ P Please keep a hardcopy of your legal documents and consider the environment before printing this e-mail Le mercredi 12 octobre 2022 à 15:38:51 UTC−5, Claire Craig <claireccraig@gmail.com> a écrit : I was reminded that the only official ways of submitting our comments is either here on the mail list or on the WiKi page created for that purpose. Those who commented on the WhatsApp chat please post your submission in response to the LACRALO statement in either of those channels so that there is an official record. CCC On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 at 14:27, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty@gmail.com<mailto:apisanty@gmail.com>> wrote: Claire, I have now made this submission as a personal one. I do formally request that you record and transmit it as a dissenting input. If any one else adheres please state so. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:02 PM Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty@gmail.com<mailto:apisanty@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi, this statement should not be ratified "as is"; instead, the following (at least) should be submitted: 1. the review must be performed including as reviewers parties designated by processes independent of all SO's and AC's. The vetting process through the SO's and AC's in the recent years (since it was instituted) has given rise to more insidership than ever and this in turn has weakened the reviews to the point of making some of them unworkable. The Board must be at freedom to designate external members. 2. The paragraph on "consideration of how the review reviews AC's and SO's should be omitted. ALL of ICANN should be reviewed with the same level of rigorous evaluation. THAT is what "HOLISTIC" means. 3. The objectives of the review must include "simplification of all ICANN processes to the utmost achievable level" lest it end up, as the previous ATRT's (we already have three!!), in more bureaucracy and more make-work. Yours, Alejandro Pisanty On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 9:54 AM Claire Craig <claireccraig@gmail.com<mailto:claireccraig@gmail.com>> wrote: Please review the Draft LACRALO position on the Pilot Holistic Review and provide your comments and feed. It would be appreciated if you can send today as a matter of urgency. On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 12:16, <silvia.vivanco@icann.org<mailto:silvia.vivanco@icann.org>> wrote: [[-- Translated text (en -> es) --]] Estimados, Consulte el documento de Google: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12kNCFCBca63eeAZbgBvvVXNLsFGbOUxzWc229o22... [docs.google.com<http://docs.google.com>] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/12kNCFCBca63ee...> con el borrador de la declaración del ALAC sobre los TOR de revisión holística. Nota: Los comentarios de importancia crítica solo se aceptarán hasta las 23:59 UTC del 11 de octubre de 2022. ¡Muchos gracias! Personal general Personal de políticas de la ICANN en apoyo de la comunidad At-Large Sitio web: atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org> [atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org>] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/atlarge.icann.org/__;!!PtGJab4!tDPXhqVORP...> Facebook: facebook.com/icann<http://facebook.com/icann> [facebook.com<http://facebook.com>] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/icannatlarge__;!!PtGJab4...> en grande [facebook.com<http://facebook.com>] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/icannatlarge__;!!PtGJab4...> Twitter: @ [twitter.com<http://twitter.com>] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge__;!!PtGJab4!tDPX...> ICANNatLarge [twitter.com<http://twitter.com>] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge__;!!PtGJab4!tDPX...> _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.