I would say that, while we cannot eliminate all confusion, the more we can eliminate the better. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 3:58:48 AM EDT, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> wrote: #yiv3478497345 #yiv3478497345 -- _filtered #yiv3478497345 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3478497345 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3478497345 {font-family:New Roman;panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4;} _filtered #yiv3478497345 {panose-1:2 0 5 3 0 0 0 2 0 4;} _filtered #yiv3478497345 {font-family:tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3478497345 #yiv3478497345 p.yiv3478497345MsoNormal, #yiv3478497345 li.yiv3478497345MsoNormal, #yiv3478497345 div.yiv3478497345MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv3478497345 a:link, #yiv3478497345 span.yiv3478497345MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3478497345 a:visited, #yiv3478497345 span.yiv3478497345MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3478497345 p.yiv3478497345msonormal0, #yiv3478497345 li.yiv3478497345msonormal0, #yiv3478497345 div.yiv3478497345msonormal0 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv3478497345 span.yiv3478497345EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv3478497345 .yiv3478497345MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3478497345 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv3478497345 div.yiv3478497345WordSection1 {}#yiv3478497345 I think the examples illustrates well that diacritics below are obscured by underlining. The examples also, by accident, illustrates that the link that we "execute" does not need to be the same as the link text that we see. It obvious if we have a text that says "click *here*", because we do not expect that we would be sent to http://here/, but also when it does look like a "link" it the real link could be something else. If you look at Bill's data you will see that under the first example "www.teștexampļe1.mil" there is the link "http://www.exampļe.mil/", not the expected "http://www.teștexampļe1.mil". It could be claimed that this is definitely out of scope of our work, and that is true, but it still illustrates that even if we eliminate all possible confusable characters there is still other ways to use the domain names to confuse. Mats --- Mats Dufberg DNS Specialist Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Reply-To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2019 at 01:55 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Diacritics Below Right. But I was referring to the four domain names I had at the beginning of this email thread. (As you say, it's hard to spot those below-the-line diacritics even when you know to look specifically for them.) Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:11:12 PM EDT, Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com> wrote: I went through all the letters. There are also cases for a, e, d , i, n, m and o Regards, Hazem Hezzah From:Bill Jouris Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 11:00 PM To:latingp@icann.org ;Hazem Hezzah Subject: Re: [Latingp] Diacritics Below Just one other passing note: In case you missed it, in addition to the diacritics under the letter L, there were a couple cases of a diacritic under S or T. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 4:41:20 PM EDT, Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com> wrote: Dear all, I went again through all combinations in the sheet, and could only see that there is a diacritic below because I’m intentionally looking at it. Specially those with dot, line and macron below. As I said in the previous call, a normal user would not notice a difference, so my personal opinion would be to consider at least code points having those 3 diacritics as variants. This decision would of course would limit the use of IDNs. Open for discussion. Regards, Hazem Hezzah From:Meikal Mumin Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 2:46 PM To:latingp@icann.org ;Michael Bauland Subject: Re: [Latingp] Diacritics Below Dear colleagues, If you can't tell which diacritic is used, that would logically be a case for a variant relationship between all potential options, but not the unmodified basic letter shape itself. Best, Meikal Am 6. Mai 2019, 14:34 +0200 schrieb Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>: Hi Bill, On 02.05.2019 17:33, Bill Jouris wrote: Dear colleagues, I would like to show why I think the various diacritics below (not just dot and macron) ought to be accounted variants as well. And I thought I'd do it as an email, because that's likely to be the way (along with links on web pages) that most people will get links. By way of example, consider one of the original TLDs: .mil _www.teștexampļe1.mil <http://www.xn--exampe-0cb.mil/>_ _www.testexampḽe2.mil _ www.testexample3.miḽ <http://www.testexample3.miḽ> _www.tesțexample4.miļ <http://www.example.xn--mi-gqa/>_ Can you honestly say that you can tell which cases of .mil have diacritcs under the L? And if you think you can, did you notice which cases of "testexample" had them? And which diacritic? Because I sure can't. Yes, I can honestly say that I can see something under the l of example for the first two cases and something under the l of mil in the last two cases (plus some other strange things under s in the first and t in the last case. Which diacritic however, is something I could not tell. Furthermore in the first and the last case the actual link didn't match shown address, but that's a complete different problem, out of our scope. Best regards, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp