All except for 01D4 and 00EC seem to occur in Lingala, a major language of Congo. All the other languages listed are less known and would need research regarding their status which is not possible because of the paywall introduced by ethnologue.com https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... Best, Meikal Am 8. Okt. 2020, 17:14 +0200 schrieb Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se>:

My proposal is that we remove them from the repertoire (except for U+00EC).

Mats

--- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/

From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Date: Thursday, 8 October 2020 at 12:57 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: [Latingp] Use of diacritic code points in Kirundi.

Dear Latin GP members,

We have got some response from our colleagues in Africa on the usage of Kirundi. It seems like the characters with diacritics are not generally used, please see the Kirundi news website, http://ubumwe.ppbdi.com [ubumwe.ppbdi.com].

They might be used in poems or other special purposes. However, based on the LGR procedure, it is clear to follow the conservatism and these could be exclude from the repertoire. If in the future there are evidence of usage, these can be added back then.

This is for your consideration and decision.

Code Point Glyph Name Language using the code point (in the current proposal) 00EC ì LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE Italian, Kirundi 01CE ǎ LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH CARON Kirundi 01D0 ǐ LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH CARON Kirundi 01D2 ǒ LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH CARON Kirundi 01D4 ǔ LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH CARON Kirundi

Regards, Pitinan

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Mats,  I think it depends on the language and it's use.  If we find another language which meets the criteria we set out (for example, 1 million native speakers), but which we do not already include, then I think we should include it.   The alternative is that we say (implicitly, if not explicitly): "We think nobody else will notice that we made a mistake.  We think we can get away with it.  So we won't bother."  I don't think we want to do that.  Note that I'm not advocating relaxing the criteria we set.  Just that we correct oversights.  And I do not agree with Mirjana that this leave us with something that will never be finished.  Yes, there are languages which are on the margin which might grow to be "big enough".  But really, there just aren't that many.  Not enough to pose a significant threat.   Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 09:01:21 AM PDT, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> wrote: #yiv1032378308 #yiv1032378308 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv1032378308 #yiv1032378308 p.yiv1032378308MsoNormal, #yiv1032378308 li.yiv1032378308MsoNormal, #yiv1032378308 div.yiv1032378308MsoNormal {margin:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1032378308 a:link, #yiv1032378308 span.yiv1032378308MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1032378308 span.yiv1032378308EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv1032378308 .yiv1032378308MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv1032378308 div.yiv1032378308WordSection1 {}#yiv1032378308 That is a new language, isn't it? I think we should be hesitant on including new languages now.   Mats   --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/       From: Meikal Mumin <meikal@mumin.de> Date: Thursday, 8 October 2020 at 17:44 To: Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Use of diacritic code points in Kirundi.   All except for 01D4 and 00EC seem to occur in Lingala, a major language of Congo. All the other languages listed are less known and would need research regarding their status which is not possible because of the paywall introduced by ethnologue.com https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... https://scriptsource.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=character_detail_use&k... Best, Meikal Am 8. Okt. 2020, 17:14 +0200 schrieb Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se>: My proposal is that we remove them from the repertoire (except for U+00EC).     Mats   --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/       From:Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo@icann.org> Date: Thursday, 8 October 2020 at 12:57 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: [Latingp] Use of diacritic code points in Kirundi.   Dear Latin GP members,   We have got some response from our colleagues in Africa on the usage of Kirundi. It seems like the characters with diacritics are not generally used, please see the Kirundi news website, http://ubumwe.ppbdi.com [ubumwe.ppbdi.com].   They might be used in poems or other special purposes. However, based on the LGR procedure, it is clear to follow the conservatism and these could be exclude from the repertoire. If in the future there are evidence of usage, these can be added back then.   This is for your consideration and decision.   | Code Point | Glyph | Name | Language using the code point (in the current proposal) | | 00EC  | ì  | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE  | Italian, Kirundi | | 01CE  | ǎ  | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH CARON  | Kirundi | | 01D0  | ǐ  | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH CARON  | Kirundi | | 01D2  | ǒ  | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH CARON  | Kirundi | | 01D4  | ǔ  | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH CARON  | Kirundi |     Regards, Pitinan   _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Hi Michael,  My thought was, once we go to Public Comment, we could start working on those cases where we have already identified languages which we have missed.  Rather than waiting until someone else identifies them.  That way, we have less work awaiting us at the end of Public Comments.  I confess that I have some concerns about us getting a comment noting (accurately) that the languages that we have missed are all African languages.  And the Generation Panel is almost all Europeans.  I don't think we deliberately skipped languages on that basis.  But I would prefer not to have to deal with accusations.  Bill   On Tuesday, October 13, 2020, 12:23:54 AM PDT, Michael Bauland <michael.bauland@knipp.de> wrote: Hi Bill, sorry for chiming in so late, but it took me some time to sort through all the mails after my holiday. On 08.10.2020 21:03, Bill Jouris wrote:

Mats, 

I think it depends on the language and it's use.  If we find another language /which meets the criteria we set out/ (for example, 1 million native speakers), but which we do not already include, then I think we should include it. 

I would also be very wary to include a new language at this point. Certainly we all agree, we will not relaxing our criteria. If it's not within those, it's automatically out. However, even if it matches the criteria, if adding the language also adds one or more new characters, this would require us to go through the whole in-script and out-of-script analysis again. With everybody looking at the cases and voting on them. I don't think we should spend time on this at this stage. And adding the language while ignoring any new variant relationships is worse from my point of view. If it's not introducing any new characters, but just keeps the ones from Kirundi, then I'd say, ok, let's introduce this language as all the work has already been done. Otherwise I'd rather wait for public comment. Then you (or anybody else) can comment that we have missed the language (and maybe even some further languages) and we need to restart the work on the variant analysis for all new characters at the same time. Cheers, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________     |      |     | knipp |            Knipp  Medien und Kommunikation GmbH       -------                    Technologiepark                                 Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9                                 44227 Dortmund                                 Germany     Dipl.-Informatiker          Fon:    +49 231 9703-0                                 Fax:    +49 231 9703-200     Dr. Michael Bauland        SIP:    Michael.Bauland@knipp.de     Software Development        E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de                                 Register Court:                                 Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728                                 Chief Executive Officers:                                 Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.