To follow on from my previous intervention in answer to this question, the definition of 'present and voting' which is internationally recognised is to count those who vote yes or no, not abstentions. On 15/05/07, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com> wrote:
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
There is no recognised voting system in the international world which I am aware of which counts abstentions as votes. This is also true in the corporate world.
As I understood the predetermined process, we were seeking consensus, not vote, and 70% of those present, not a majority of voters.
--Wendy
As background, I can make these statements not only based upon 20 years of working with international organisations and participating in treaty making conferences, but also because I have recently read the authoritative work on rules of procedure of international conferences and standing committees of international organisations, and gone through the UNGA rules, the UN Model Rules, and the ECOSOC rules in order to come up with draft rules of procedure for At-Large meetings.
It would be unwise to go against all established precendents and count abstentions as votes. If you were to do that, it would be very easy to argue that the vote counting method was not valid.
This is also logical - if you think about it, counting abstentions as votes means that you are basically counting an abstention as a 'no' vote. If people meant to say 'No', they would have voted that way. Indeed, a number of voters in this election have specifically said that they were abstaining because they didn't have time to properly analyse the situation and didn't feel comfortable voting either way. This sensible approach should not be used to turn their vote into a 'no' vote.
On 15/05/07, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com> wrote:
Mr. Robert Guerra wrote:
Wendy:
I believe Luc posted a message with the results of the OP vote. let me find it..
From: "Luc Faubert" <LFaubert@conceptum.ca> Date: May 2, 2007 2:49:49 AM EDT (CA) To: "Bret Fausett" <bfausett@internet.law.pro>, "All Accredited At Large Structures ((ALS)) in the North AmericanRegion" <na- als@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] [NA-ALS] Voting Procedural Correction
Here's a sheet with the current results for the vote on the OP.
SUMMARY Yes: 14 No: 5 Abstentions: 3 Didn't vote: 2
Not sure how to treat the abstentons & non voters. So, i'll assume i can just add the yea's and nea's..Total # of votes -19 (14+5). Doing the math - Votes in favor = 73 %, opposed 26%.
I'd count abstentions in the total, we didn't reach 70% of the total, and thus fail.
If we can't get 70% for the OP, they shouldn't be Operative.
--Wendy
Our criteria for approving by rough consensus was set at 70%. as such we - seem to have adopted the OP by rough consensus.
regards,
Robert --- Robert Guerra <rguerra@privaterra.org> Managing Director, Privaterra Tel +1 416 893 0377
On 15-May-07, at 9:10 AM, Wendy Seltzer wrote:
Robert Guerra wrote:
I thought it would be a good idea to post a copy of the Formation Schedule found on our page on icannwiki.
are we on track, on schedule? Two key questions - was the MoU adopted by rough consensus, and if so has it been received by icann legal for review? As far as I know, no. I never even saw the results of the vote on the Operating Principles. Were those adopted?
But I don't think that deliberate speed is a problem.
--Wendy
regards
Robert
-- http://www.icannwiki.org/The_North_American_Regional_At- Large_Organization
[snipped]
Formation Schedule
2007.04.20: Certified ALSes and individual users name their 2 voting representatives forming the General Assembly (must be entered at NARALO Contacts) 2007.04.27: Members approve final version of NARALO Operating Principles (Draft) 2007.05.04: Members vote for Chair and Secretariat of NARALO 2007.05.11: Members approve final version of Memorandum of Understanding between NARALO and ICANN (Draft) 2007.05.14: MOU is sent to ICANN legal for approval 2007.05.14: The Chair opens the 30-day period for submission of Statements of Interest for the election of our 2 ALAC representatives 2007.05.25: ICANN legal approves MOU 2007.05.28: ICANN opens 21-day public comment period for NARALO MOU 2007.06.14: The Chair closes the 30-day period for submission of Statements of Interest for the election of our 2 ALAC representatives 2007.06.18: ICANN closes 21-day public comment period for NARALO MOU 2007.06.21: Members select 2 NARALO ALAC representatives 2007.06.25: ICANN and ALSes sign the MOU and seating of ALAC representatives in San Juan, Puerto Rico ICANN meeting
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.icann.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: +1.617.418.3456 / +44 (0)1865 287203 // cell: 07785 550361 Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica...
--- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: +1.617.418.3456 / +44 (0)1865 287203 // cell: 07785 550361 Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica...
--- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: +1.617.418.3456 / +44 (0)1865 287203 // cell: 07785 550361 Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart