Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
yes, that was my point -- not that cutting off access is a regional problem, but rather wanting NA to avoid looking unduly paternal -----Original Message-----
From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg@epic.org> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 10:30 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com>, Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca>, NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
I take Beau's point to be that it would be better if the statement emerged from the RALO closest to the immediate problem. But in some respects that could also lead to further politicization. And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill switch."
This is why we should try to generalize: cutting off access to the Internet is not simply a regional problem.
Marc.
On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Beau Brendler wrote:
OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one.
Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified.
So the choices are:
a) Make a short NA statement. b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. c) What?
Beau
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM To: Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
+1
On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote:
+ 1
Gareth
On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi,
Well then we disagree.
For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information.
If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence.
John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly.
a.
On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote:
> But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly.
It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
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But it's not paternalistic is we generalize from this recent event and if we cite the mission of ALAC, ICANN, and universal values . . . Marc. On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Beau Brendler wrote:
yes, that was my point -- not that cutting off access is a regional problem, but rather wanting NA to avoid looking unduly paternal
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg@epic.org> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 10:30 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com>, Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca>, NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
I take Beau's point to be that it would be better if the statement emerged from the RALO closest to the immediate problem. But in some respects that could also lead to further politicization. And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill switch."
This is why we should try to generalize: cutting off access to the Internet is not simply a regional problem.
Marc.
On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Beau Brendler wrote:
OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one.
Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified.
So the choices are:
a) Make a short NA statement. b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. c) What?
Beau
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM To: Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
+1
On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote:
+ 1
Gareth
On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi,
Well then we disagree.
For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information.
If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence.
John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly.
a.
On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote:
>> But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. > I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly. > > It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all. > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly >
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participants (2)
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Beau Brendler -
Marc Rotenberg