Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one. Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified. So the choices are: a) Make a short NA statement. b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. c) What? Beau -----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM To: Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
+1
On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote:
+ 1
Gareth
On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi,
Well then we disagree.
For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information.
If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence.
John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly.
a.
On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote:
But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly.
It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
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Hi, I think your option B was what i was suggesting. It is ICANN that should make the statement in my estimation. and NARALO and others need to work within ALAC to get ICANN to do this. I think it also good to look for AFRALO leadership in ALAC's framing of a statement. So perhaps a public letter from NARALO to ALAC making a suggestion for an ICANN statement containing the points outlined by Marc would be appropriate. a. (please forgive me if, as an ALS member and not a NARALO rep, I am being too forward with my suggestions and arguments - i don't want to overstep my bounds.) On 31 Jan 2011, at 08:42, Beau Brendler wrote:
OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one.
Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified.
So the choices are:
a) Make a short NA statement. b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. c) What?
Beau
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM To: Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
+1
On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote:
+ 1
Gareth
On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi,
Well then we disagree.
For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information.
If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence.
John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly.
a.
On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote:
But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly.
It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
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Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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I take Beau's point to be that it would be better if the statement emerged from the RALO closest to the immediate problem. But in some respects that could also lead to further politicization. And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill switch." This is why we should try to generalize: cutting off access to the Internet is not simply a regional problem. Marc. On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Beau Brendler wrote:
OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one.
Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified.
So the choices are:
a) Make a short NA statement. b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. c) What?
Beau
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml@communisphere.com> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM To: Gareth Shearman <shearman@victoria.tc.ca> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
+1
On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote:
+ 1
Gareth
On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi,
Well then we disagree.
For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information.
If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence.
John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly.
a.
On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote:
But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly.
It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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On 1/31/11 10:30 AM, Marc Rotenberg wrote:
I take Beau's point to be that it would be better if the statement emerged from the RALO closest to the immediate problem.
I'm not convinced that a claim of regional priority has any utility.
But in some respects that could also lead to further politicization.
I don't know what is meant in this sentence.
And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill switch."
I'm sure the Canadians will have something to say about the lack of complete relevance of a cite to the US Congress. The existing lack of service in most of Indian Country in the Americas is less speculative than an administrative mechanism to interfere with the beneficiaries of existing (originally public) buildouts of private high-speed (for the Americas) data services.
This is why we should try to generalize: cutting off access to the Internet is not simply a regional problem.
Agree. Had the administrative tool been the SEA-ME-WE-4 and FLAG cable landings in Alexandria, the effect would be similar to what took place two years ago, affecting most of West and South Asia. Part of the message to authoritarians is use the tools wisely. Eric
On 31 January 2011 11:06, Eric Brunner-Williams <ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net>wrote:
And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill switch."
I'm sure the Canadians will have something to say about the lack of complete relevance of a cite to the US Congress.
The Canadians (well, this one) are sensitive to attempts to lecture others in Internet freedom, especially from atop such a shaky pulpit. It's wholly relevant because -- for the purpose of this region and what it says -- we're all lumped in together. - Evan
participants (5)
-
Avri Doria -
Beau Brendler -
Eric Brunner-Williams -
Evan Leibovitch -
Marc Rotenberg