No, I'm afraid there really are several problems in the statements you've made below. I'm guessing you are not aware that you are actually making inaccurate statements: ICANN's At-Large staff and infrastructure is not inclusive of ALAC or RALOS or anyone else: ICANN's At-Large staff is the staff, and that is all. There are ICANN staff people like me who provide services and support, as I said, to the At-Large community, but that doesn't mean we're all mixed together - we aren't. There are to my mind quite a few good reasons for this, not least, that my role doesn't include policy formation or development; simply helping provide infrrastructural and other support to develop transparent processes for those in the community. At-Large is the community - that does include ALAC, RALOS, and the Rest of You. The Regional Liaisons do not work for ALAC, or for me, or even for Denise; they are ICANN's external 'face' to all the constituencies. They do provide some service and assistance to the At-Large community, but they provide the same services generally speaking to all the other constituencies. That's why ALAC never met them until they were hired; they don't even report administratively to the same part of ICANN as I do. I agree that the term ALAC is often used to mean the At-Large community. This has historical precedents, from the days when there was the Interim ALAC, and very few ALSes and zero RALOS, and I have and continue to make the ICANN staff aware that ALAC is the committee, At-Large is the community, and eventually everyone will no longer use these terms interchangeably, including in budgets :) Your point about expenditures is of course well made. On 05/05/07, Jean Armour Polly <mom@netmom.com> wrote:

Hi Nick, no I have explicitly not mixed up descriptors, at least in my own mind, though perhaps I could have expressed myself more clearly. My exact point is that there is the ALAC committee itself, then there is ICANN's "At Large" staff and infrastructure, which is inclusive of ALAC but also includes services to RALOs, ALS's, and the Rest of Us. As evidence I point to the fact that your own title is the Director of At-Large, not ALAC. http://www.icann.org/biog/ashton-hart.htm and the regional liaisons work for ICANN's At-Large group, not ALAC. ALAC never even met them until after they were hired!

But there is some confusion in the ICANN budget. Have a look. http://www.icann.org/announcements/proposed-budget-2006-07-clean-24jun06.pdf Unless I am missing something-- I note that "ALAC" is mentioned as follows: 4B Improve and deepen participation in the ICANN process - End Users (ALAC) ALAC FTE 1.50 $690 ,000 "ALAC" is given 1.5 FTE (full time equivalent) employees of its own, according to this budget. It seems ICANN's "At-Large" staff and infrastructure itself is not mentioned, but perhaps I missed it.

Is there a confusion of descriptors in ICANN's own budget?

That is perhaps one reason why there has been quite a bit of internal confusion in ALAC over whether or not ALAC can actually direct ICANN to expend any of "its" funds, as long as the ICANN financial procedures are followed. The approval of the expenditure of any of ALAC's funds does not lie with ALAC, but with yourself, Denise Michell (Vice President for Policy Development), and those higher up. My point remains: It is a mistake to say that ALAC has administrative control over its own budget.

best wishes JP Ex ALAC North America from Nomcom

At 12:33 PM +0100 5/5/07, Nick Ashton-Hart recently said: Jean, I think you've mixed up descriptors here and the result is likely to give people an incorrect understanding as a consequence.

At-Large = the COMMUNITY as a whole, including ALAC ALAC = At-Large Advisory Committee. ICANN staff = ICANN staff

At-Large and ALAC are not interchangeable. At-Large and ICANN Staff are not interchangeable, either.

At-Large - the community and ALAC the committee have funding via a budget line in the ICANN budget.

On 05/05/07, Jean Armour Polly <mom@netmom.com> wrote:

At 12:50 PM -0700 5/4/07, Danny Younger recently said:

Peter Dengate-Thrush offered congratulations on the development of the program but asked why the fellowships appeared limited only to ICANN supporting organizations or committees. Theresa explained that while any resident citizen of a qualifying country could apply, the target audience for the program will be government representatives that wish to participate in the Governmental Advisory Committee, the ccTLD community and the non-profit sector not associated with the At-Large Advisory Committee. The At-Large Advisory Committee already administers its own funding for these purposes.

This is not strictly true. There is a difference between At Large and the At Large Advisory Committee. The former has direct ICANN funding, the latter does not. At Large has funding that it administers but it is incorrect to say that the At Large Advisory Committee administers any funds at all. ALAC can propose expenditures of funds from At-Large, which it sometimes gets, and sometimes does not get. The point is that ALAC cannot just direct At-Large to go out and pay for travel for ICANN constituents, services, research, or anything else. There's a proposal process that has to move up through channels. _______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica... --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU

Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP

Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct

-- -- Regards,

Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart