Jean Armour Polly wrote:

Hi, I didn't vote in this election and I haven't been on any conference calls in a long time. I wasn't even sure I *could* vote. I'd still consider myself affiliated, but imagine NARALO wants someone to be an active member in order to count a ballot, and I have not been that in a while. If I wanted to vote next time, what is the standard of activity needed? Thanks! :-) Hi Jean,

First of all, you certainly are a valued member of NARALO. While we'd love to see you participate in more calls, you have already been more active than some ALSs that were also entitled to vote. Danny Younger wrote,

The vote results don't appear to be recording the fact that "unaffiliated" NARALO members have cast votes. I don't see my name in the tally of voters that cast a vote, nor do I see Wendy Seltzer or other unaffilated members such as Jean Polly listed. An explanation is warranted.

Hi Danny, I take full responsibility for the process of counting your intentions in the last two NARALO votes, regarding ALAC appointments to the Nominating Committee and Board Liaison position. In the NARALO rules of procedure, our unaffiliated members - collectively - have the same voting rights as one ALS. In these most recent votes I selected Beau to "represent" the unaffiliated members of NARALO, and had hoped that he would caucus with them and determine his vote based on that feedback. Through a miscommunication, there was no caucus; however, it is my understanding that Beau heard from a number of unaffiliated members and that his vote did reflect the intent of the majority of the feedback he received. Moving forward, there has been much to learn about this process; in our two-plus years of operation, we have accomplished most of our decisions through consensus, and this is the first time that we have used a formal voting mechanism such as BigPulse. I consider it fortunate that have have been able to test our process on a pair of non-binding polls, and that we can use this experience to fine-tune the process for when it will be used in a binding fashion. At our next conference call we will discuss what worked and what didn't. Based on my observations I will be recommending the following process for future formal votes: ------ - In advance of the voting period, Staff will announce the names of all unaffiliated members eligible to participate (just as the list of ALSs is announced). This list, collectively, will be the Unaffiliated Member Caucus (UMC) and have the same voting rights as a NARALO ALS. - Anyone who is not on the announce list who is a NARALO participant is welcome to add their name at that time - At that time, the NARALO Chair will designate a representative for the UMC; that person will cast the vote(s) on its behalf. If there is substantial opposition to this selection by unaffiliated members, the Chair will designate an alternate. based on UMC advice. - Staff will send an email to all listed members, indicating the name and contact information for the UMC representative - The UMC should determine the best way to choose its voting preferences -- through private mail, mailing lists, teleconference or other means. The UMC representative must make an effort to solicit the intent of each unaffiliated member, and cast his/her vote according to the advice received. - The UMC representative should cast his/her vote(s) until near the end of the voting period, as to allow for the maximum time for members to indicate their voting intentions. - If the UMC representative is unable to cast a vote (due to emergency, illness, etc), the UMB will designate an alternate. - The vote election not be closed until the UMC's vote is cast. If necessary, the voting period will be extended to allow the UMC representative to vote. - After the vote is held, the UMC representative will report to staff a list of members who participated in the UMC for that vote. ------ I hope this is seen as a starting point that others are welcome to refine (or discard!). This will be on the agenda of the next NARALO meeting. - Evan

I don't understand. WAS Beau's vote of less weight than anybody else's? How could that be? On a separate point, we probably do need to do some house-cleaning on ALSs that we haven't heard from in at least a year. D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:44 AM To: Jean Armour Polly; Evan Leibovitch Cc: na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Unaffiliated member voting (was Re: NARALO VotingResult ...) Evan, thank you for placing this matter on the next Agenda. On top of everything else, I am concerned by voting irregularities (such as the vote by a long-defunct ALS that is given as much weight as the collective vote of the unaffiliated). I would be pleased to hear your arguments as to why your vote is of greater value (weight) than Beau's vote or my vote or Jean's vote or Wendy's vote. Looking forward to a robust discussion. -- Danny -- ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists .icann.org Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

The process seems fair, however I would not extend the voting period at all. We can discuss next Monday. -ed On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:

Jean Armour Polly wrote:

...

Hi, I didn't vote in this election and I haven't been on any conference calls in a long time. I wasn't even sure I *could* vote. I'd still consider myself affiliated, but imagine NARALO wants someone to be an active member in order to count a ballot, and I have not been that in a while. If I wanted to vote next time, what is the standard of activity needed? Thanks! :-) Hi Jean,

First of all, you certainly are a valued member of NARALO. While we'd love to see you participate in more calls, you have already been more active than some ALSs that were also entitled to vote.

Danny Younger wrote,

...

The vote results don't appear to be recording the fact that "unaffiliated" NARALO members have cast votes. I don't see my name in the tally of voters that cast a vote, nor do I see Wendy Seltzer or other unaffilated members such as Jean Polly listed. An explanation is warranted.

Hi Danny,

I take full responsibility for the process of counting your intentions in the last two NARALO votes, regarding ALAC appointments to the Nominating Committee and Board Liaison position.

In the NARALO rules of procedure, our unaffiliated members - collectively - have the same voting rights as one ALS. In these most recent votes I selected Beau to "represent" the unaffiliated members of NARALO, and had hoped that he would caucus with them and determine his vote based on that feedback. Through a miscommunication, there was no caucus; however, it is my understanding that Beau heard from a number of unaffiliated members and that his vote did reflect the intent of the majority of the feedback he received.

Moving forward, there has been much to learn about this process; in our two-plus years of operation, we have accomplished most of our decisions through consensus, and this is the first time that we have used a formal voting mechanism such as BigPulse. I consider it fortunate that have have been able to test our process on a pair of non-binding polls, and that we can use this experience to fine-tune the process for when it will be used in a binding fashion.

At our next conference call we will discuss what worked and what didn't. Based on my observations I will be recommending the following process for future formal votes:

------

- In advance of the voting period, Staff will announce the names of all unaffiliated members eligible to participate (just as the list of ALSs is announced). This list, collectively, will be the Unaffiliated Member Caucus (UMC) and have the same voting rights as a NARALO ALS.

- Anyone who is not on the announce list who is a NARALO participant is welcome to add their name at that time

- At that time, the NARALO Chair will designate a representative for the UMC; that person will cast the vote(s) on its behalf. If there is substantial opposition to this selection by unaffiliated members, the Chair will designate an alternate. based on UMC advice.

- Staff will send an email to all listed members, indicating the name and contact information for the UMC representative

- The UMC should determine the best way to choose its voting preferences -- through private mail, mailing lists, teleconference or other means. The UMC representative must make an effort to solicit the intent of each unaffiliated member, and cast his/her vote according to the advice received.

- The UMC representative should cast his/her vote(s) until near the end of the voting period, as to allow for the maximum time for members to indicate their voting intentions.

- If the UMC representative is unable to cast a vote (due to emergency, illness, etc), the UMB will designate an alternate.

- The vote election not be closed until the UMC's vote is cast. If necessary, the voting period will be extended to allow the UMC representative to vote.

- After the vote is held, the UMC representative will report to staff a list of members who participated in the UMC for that vote.

------

I hope this is seen as a starting point that others are welcome to refine (or discard!).

This will be on the agenda of the next NARALO meeting.

- Evan

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Automation is nice, but I see no real need to have the cumulative vote carry over to the overall one automatically. Having a person in the middle would be just fine. Alan At 15/09/2009 11:13 AM, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:

Dear Evan and NARALO members:

I believe - we would need to check with BigPulse - that we can have the voting system weight individual votes in such a way that they aggregate to a single whole vote (a whole vote being equal to one vote of an accredited ALS). The unaffiliated users would then be able to all individually vote and the result would be combined, using the same logic (STV) as the overall vote.

As I said, we would need to talk to BigPulse about this. NARALO would also need to establish deadlines by which unaffiliated members identified themselves so that they could be added to the voting system and the like.

Eduardo Diaz wrote:

...

The process seems fair, however I would not extend the voting period at all. We can discuss next Monday.

-ed

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:

...

Jean Armour Polly wrote:

...

Hi, I didn't vote in this election and I haven't been on any conference calls in a long time. I wasn't even sure I *could* vote. I'd still consider myself affiliated, but imagine NARALO wants someone to be an active member in order to count a ballot, and I have not been that in a while. If I wanted to vote next time, what is the standard of activity needed? Thanks! :-)

Hi Jean,

First of all, you certainly are a valued member of NARALO. While we'd love to see you participate in more calls, you have already been more active than some ALSs that were also entitled to vote.

Danny Younger wrote,

...

The vote results don't appear to be recording the fact that "unaffiliated" NARALO members have cast votes. I don't see my name in the tally of voters that cast a vote, nor do I see Wendy Seltzer or other unaffilated members such as Jean Polly listed. An explanation is warranted.

Hi Danny,

I take full responsibility for the process of counting your intentions in the last two NARALO votes, regarding ALAC appointments to the Nominating Committee and Board Liaison position.

In the NARALO rules of procedure, our unaffiliated members - collectively - have the same voting rights as one ALS. In these most recent votes I selected Beau to "represent" the unaffiliated members of NARALO, and had hoped that he would caucus with them and determine his vote based on that feedback. Through a miscommunication, there was no caucus; however, it is my understanding that Beau heard from a number of unaffiliated members and that his vote did reflect the intent of the majority of the feedback he received.

Moving forward, there has been much to learn about this process; in our two-plus years of operation, we have accomplished most of our decisions through consensus, and this is the first time that we have used a formal voting mechanism such as BigPulse. I consider it fortunate that have have been able to test our process on a pair of non-binding polls, and that we can use this experience to fine-tune the process for when it will be used in a binding fashion.

At our next conference call we will discuss what worked and what didn't. Based on my observations I will be recommending the following process for future formal votes:

------

- In advance of the voting period, Staff will announce the names of all unaffiliated members eligible to participate (just as the list of ALSs is announced). This list, collectively, will be the Unaffiliated Member Caucus (UMC) and have the same voting rights as a NARALO ALS.

- Anyone who is not on the announce list who is a NARALO participant is welcome to add their name at that time

- At that time, the NARALO Chair will designate a representative for the UMC; that person will cast the vote(s) on its behalf. If there is substantial opposition to this selection by unaffiliated members, the Chair will designate an alternate. based on UMC advice.

- Staff will send an email to all listed members, indicating the name and contact information for the UMC representative

- The UMC should determine the best way to choose its voting preferences -- through private mail, mailing lists, teleconference or other means. The UMC representative must make an effort to solicit the intent of each unaffiliated member, and cast his/her vote according to the advice received.

- The UMC representative should cast his/her vote(s) until near the end of the voting period, as to allow for the maximum time for members to indicate their voting intentions.

- If the UMC representative is unable to cast a vote (due to emergency, illness, etc), the UMB will designate an alternate.

- The vote election not be closed until the UMC's vote is cast. If necessary, the voting period will be extended to allow the UMC representative to vote.

- After the vote is held, the UMC representative will report to staff a list of members who participated in the UMC for that vote.

------

I hope this is seen as a starting point that others are welcome to refine (or discard!).

This will be on the agenda of the next NARALO meeting.

- Evan

------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org

http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica...

...

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------

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Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)

Tel: +33 (450) 42 81 83

USA Tel: +1 (310) 301-8637

Fax: : +41 (22) 594-85-44

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email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org

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This variation could certainly be done. We will enquire and let you know what the options are. Evan Leibovitch wrote:

Alan Greenberg wrote:

...

Automation is nice, but I see no real need to have the cumulative vote carry over to the overall one automatically. Having a person in the middle would be just fine.

It depends.

Unaffiliated voters deserve the same level of anonymity afforded the ALS representatives; thus I see merit in automating the process if that is possible.

Perhaps, even if BigPulse says that what Nick wants can't be done, I could envision a more-conventional process involving two parallel BigPulse votes:

- one for unaffiliated members - one for ALSs

Just before the end of ALS voting, the unaffiliated member vote is closed; then the Chair is directed to cast a ballot to that effect in the ALS vote, on behalf of the unaffiliated.

Could that work? It would take away the need for someone to have the burden of forming the caucus, while allowing everyone to have the same level of privacy and time to vote.

- Evan

-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Tel: +33 (450) 42 81 83 USA Tel: +1 (310) 301-8637 Fax: : +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: (Switzerland): +41 79 595 5468 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

I would say on the negative side, though, the burden put on the person casting the single vote increases rapidly as the number of unaffiliated members rises - unless the process is automated. Eduardo Diaz wrote:

The good thing about doing it this way is that you do not have to change anything in BigPulse.

-ed

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org <mailto:evan@telly.org>> wrote:

Alan Greenberg wrote: > Automation is nice, but I see no real need to have the cumulative vote > carry over to the overall one automatically. Having a person in the > middle would be just fine. It depends.

Unaffiliated voters deserve the same level of anonymity afforded the ALS representatives; thus I see merit in automating the process if that is possible.

Perhaps, even if BigPulse says that what Nick wants can't be done, I could envision a more-conventional process involving two parallel BigPulse votes:

- one for unaffiliated members - one for ALSs

Just before the end of ALS voting, the unaffiliated member vote is closed; then the Chair is directed to cast a ballot to that effect in the ALS vote, on behalf of the unaffiliated.

Could that work? It would take away the need for someone to have the burden of forming the caucus, while allowing everyone to have the same level of privacy and time to vote.

- Evan

-- NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you have received this communication by error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message.

-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Tel: +33 (450) 42 81 83 USA Tel: +1 (310) 301-8637 Fax: : +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: (Switzerland): +41 79 595 5468 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

At 15/09/2009 11:32 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:

Alan Greenberg wrote:

...

Automation is nice, but I see no real need to have the cumulative vote carry over to the overall one automatically. Having a person in the middle would be just fine. It depends.

Unaffiliated voters deserve the same level of anonymity afforded the ALS representatives; thus I see merit in automating the process if that is possible.

Perhaps, even if BigPulse says that what Nick wants can't be done, I could envision a more-conventional process involving two parallel BigPulse votes:

- one for unaffiliated members - one for ALSs

Just before the end of ALS voting, the unaffiliated member vote is closed; then the Chair is directed to cast a ballot to that effect in the ALS vote, on behalf of the unaffiliated.

Could that work? It would take away the need for someone to have the burden of forming the caucus, while allowing everyone to have the same level of privacy and time to vote.

- Evan

Sounds quite fine to me. In fact, that is pretty much exactly what I was suggesting (with the "chair" in playing the role of my "person in the middle"). But stated with more clarity! Alan

...and yet our names don't appear on the roster of those who cast votes. Don't we similarly have a right to know which unaffiliated members cast votes and which did not? It's bad enough that the NARALO rules discriminate against the unaffiliated by treating us like second-class citizens when it comes to voting matters -- is my vote, or Beau's vote (who is no longer part of an approved ALS) worth so much less than Evan's vote or John's vote just because we are not part of an ALS? In my view, everyone that participates in the NARALO (regardless of their organizational affiliations) should have an equal vote -- it's an issue of fairness. regards, Danny --- On Tue, 9/15/09, At-Large Staff <staff@atlarge.icann.org> wrote:

From: At-Large Staff <staff@atlarge.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] NARALO Voting Result: NARALO Nominees for ALAC Board Liaison 2009/2010 To: "Danny Younger" <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> Cc: "na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "At-Large Staff" <staff@atlarge.icann.org> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 8:24 AM

Dear Danny:

We refer you to the previous emails from the Chair of NARALO indicating that Beau Brendler would be casting the single vote allocated to unaffiliated NARALO users and inviting said persons to caucus with Beau with respect to how that vote would be cast.

Danny Younger wrote:

The vote results don't appear to be recording the fact that "unaffiliated" NARALO members have cast votes. I don't see my name in the tally of voters that cast a vote, nor do I see Wendy Seltzer or other unaffilated members such as Jean Polly listed. An explanation is warranted.

--- On Tue, 9/15/09, At-Large Staff <staff@atlarge.icann.org> wrote:

From: At-Large Staff <staff@atlarge.icann.org> Subject: [NA-Discuss] NARALO Voting Result: NARALO Nominees for ALAC Board Liaison 2009/2010 To: "na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 6:17 AM Dear all,

Fourteen out of 22 eligible NARALO Members participated in the recent poll on the NARALO Recommendation for Board Liaison. The vote was conducted using the instant runoff voting system, where voters can rank candidates in order of preference (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting).

*********************

NARALO Board Liaison Vote 2009

As at Poll close: Monday 14 September 2009 19:28 UTC

Number of voters: 14 · Electorate size: 22  · Percentage voted: 63.64 Showing accumulated votes in each count after distribution of preferences.

Rank    Elected and Excluded      Candidate              Count1 Count2

1          Elected in count2               Reiss, Seth              6 8 2          Not elected in count2       Greenberg, Alan    4 6 3          Excluded in count1            Seltzer, Wendy       4 0

You may review the results independently under: https://www.bigpulse.com/pollresults?code=2kfGZQB8pr2uIqC5PgHx

The results were presented and discussed during yesterday¹s NARALO Teleconference.

********************

NARALO Members who participated in the vote:

Monique Chartrand Eduardo Diaz Garth Bruen Michael Maranda Glenn McKnight Randy Glass Gareth Shearman Evan Leibovitch Darlene Thompson Beau Brendler John Levine ALAC Bret Fausett Seth Reiss Robert Guerra

******************

NARALO Members who did not participate in the vote:

Bev Collins David Solomonoff Sylvia Caras Stephen Soucy Ted Ernst Zaid Ali Myles Braithwaite Louis Houle

-- Regards,

Nick Ashton-Hart, Heidi Ullrich, Matthias Langenegger, Gisella Gruber-White ICANN At-Large Staff email: staff at atlarge.icann.org

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