Re: [RDS-WHOIS2-RT] NextGen Registration Data Distribution Service
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, but it better be a pretty short discussion! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly. The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time. This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse. Alan At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
<https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters>https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
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Dear Alan, I totally agree with you that WHOIS almost does not fit for our current purpose, but I also think that we can (and may be must) say that id does not fit and has to be replaced. On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, *but it better be a pretty short discussion*! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
============================== *Carlton A Samuels*
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-- SY, Dmitry Belyavsky
I agree no long discussion necessary. But we would be remiss as a RT not to declare! -Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, *but it better be a pretty short discussion*! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
============================== *Carlton A Samuels*
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I agree with Alan that this is the work of the RDS WG. If we can provide brief insight to the WG that is fine but a long in depth review and discussion would be duplicating work. Susan On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, *but it better be a pretty short discussion*! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
============================== *Carlton A Samuels*
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The problem about asking this question is that to do so, we would first have to define the purpose of Whois and that is a bees nest because everyone only feels his part of the elephant in the darkness on that topic. Not saying that we shouldn't do it anyway, but it would complicate our work significantly. Best, Volker Am 06.07.2017 um 17:37 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, *_but it better be a pretty short discussion_*! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters <https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters>
Best, -Carlton
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
While I agree that purpose is a central question and we will not be able to deal with data protection issues until we cut that gordian knot, since we just spent weeks on it in RDS I doubt we should attempt it in the Who2 review. I think if we stick to a very tight interpretation of the last review's recommendations, and sail very tight to the wind, we can get through this in a reasonable time. Stephanie On 2017-07-07 04:36, Volker Greimann wrote:
The problem about asking this question is that to do so, we would first have to define the purpose of Whois and that is a bees nest because everyone only feels his part of the elephant in the darkness on that topic.
Not saying that we shouldn't do it anyway, but it would complicate our work significantly.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.07.2017 um 17:37 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, *_but it better be a pretty short discussion_*! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters <https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters>
Best, -Carlton
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
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--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
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Agreed. We need to be really careful we do not go down this rat hole! (for non-English speakers, Definition #2 from http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rat-hole - "To digress in an extensive way. To divert the conversation to a topic that is not only unrelated to the topic at hand, but a topic that will likely have no immediate resolution either.") Alan At 07/07/2017 08:48 AM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
While I agree that purpose is a central question and we will not be able to deal with data protection issues until we cut that gordian knot, since we just spent weeks on it in RDS I doubt we should attempt it in the Who2 review.
I think if we stick to a very tight interpretation of the last review's recommendations, and sail very tight to the wind, we can get through this in a reasonable time.
Stephanie
On 2017-07-07 04:36, Volker Greimann wrote:
The problem about asking this question is that to do so, we would first have to define the purpose of Whois and that is a bees nest because everyone only feels his part of the elephant in the darkness on that topic.
Not saying that we shouldn't do it anyway, but it would complicate our work significantly.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.07.2017 um 17:37 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, but it better be a pretty short discussion! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
<https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters>https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP <http://www.keydrive.lu>www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
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While I would be VERY happy to not touch this subject with a ten-foot pole since it overlaps with the PDP, I do not agree that we would need to define the purpose of a future WHOIS. The question that was raised by Carlton is whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose. The CURRENT purpose, whether we like it or not or agree with it or not. The current WHOIS asks for name and contact information. We live in a word with IDN names and contact information. The current 7-bit protocol is not able to handle them. Therefore, it is not fit for purpose. I agree that what SHOULD be in WHOIS is a different question. If the answer ends up being almost nothing, then perhaps the current protocol would be fit for that. But that is NOT what we are here to decide. Alan At 07/07/2017 04:36 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
The problem about asking this question is that to do so, we would first have to define the purpose of Whois and that is a bees nest because everyone only feels his part of the elephant in the darkness on that topic.
Not saying that we shouldn't do it anyway, but it would complicate our work significantly.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.07.2017 um 17:37 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, but it better be a pretty short discussion! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
<https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters>https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics:
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Thanks Alan. You do understand the question and my intent. -Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
While I would be VERY happy to not touch this subject with a ten-foot pole since it overlaps with the PDP, I do not agree that we would need to define the purpose of a future WHOIS.
The question that was raised by Carlton is whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose. The CURRENT purpose, whether we like it or not or agree with it or not. The current WHOIS asks for name and contact information. We live in a word with IDN names and contact information. The current 7-bit protocol is not able to handle them. Therefore, it is not fit for purpose.
I agree that what SHOULD be in WHOIS is a different question. If the answer ends up being almost nothing, then perhaps the current protocol would be fit for that. But that is NOT what we are here to decide.
Alan
At 07/07/2017 04:36 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
The problem about asking this question is that to do so, we would first have to define the purpose of Whois and that is a bees nest because everyone only feels his part of the elephant in the darkness on that topic.
Not saying that we shouldn't do it anyway, but it would complicate our work significantly.
Best,
Volker
Am 06.07.2017 um 17:37 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, *but it better be a pretty short discussion*! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly.
The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time.
This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse.
Alan
At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement.
You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP.
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters
Best, -Carlton
============================== *Carlton A Samuels*
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851> Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net
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There are two layers here that we should distinguish, the technical and the legal layer. We could possibly end up making a recommendation about RDAP, for the IDN reasons Alan has already outlined, without entering into the weeds on the purposes of WHOIS from a data protection perspective. On the scope in general I still think our rough idea from the informal meeting at ICANN 59 works quite well: - Do a post-mortem of the first WHOIS RT report + implementation; and - Assess whether WHOIS as it is now (as compared to 2012) is fit for the relevant needs. This may mean saying a word or two about the compliance with legal frameworks including GDPR but I would also support those who already explained why we shouldn't spend too much time on this and rather refer out to other work. I don't think we can escape this entirely though because how can something be fit for needs if it does not comply with relevant legal frameworks? In other news, I would like to volunteer as co-chair or vice chair. Looking forward to talking to all of you tomorrow. Best regards Cathrin From: rds-whois2-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:rds-whois2-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Carlton Samuels Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 6:45 PM To: Alan Greenberg Cc: RDS WHOIS2-RT List Subject: Re: [RDS-WHOIS2-RT] NextGen Registration Data Distribution Service Thanks Alan. You do understand the question and my intent. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>> wrote: While I would be VERY happy to not touch this subject with a ten-foot pole since it overlaps with the PDP, I do not agree that we would need to define the purpose of a future WHOIS. The question that was raised by Carlton is whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose. The CURRENT purpose, whether we like it or not or agree with it or not. The current WHOIS asks for name and contact information. We live in a word with IDN names and contact information. The current 7-bit protocol is not able to handle them. Therefore, it is not fit for purpose. I agree that what SHOULD be in WHOIS is a different question. If the answer ends up being almost nothing, then perhaps the current protocol would be fit for that. But that is NOT what we are here to decide. Alan At 07/07/2017 04:36 AM, Volker Greimann wrote: The problem about asking this question is that to do so, we would first have to define the purpose of Whois and that is a bees nest because everyone only feels his part of the elephant in the darkness on that topic. Not saying that we shouldn't do it anyway, but it would complicate our work significantly. Best, Volker Am 06.07.2017 um 17:37 schrieb Alan Greenberg: I am less sure than Carlton that we MUST discuss this. I have no problem with discussing whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit for purpose, but it better be a pretty short discussion! If anyone has a good argument why it IS fit for purpose, it should be shared pretty quickly. The inability of a 7-bit protocol to handle today's IDN world, and the inability to handle any level of authorization/authentication/gating (which is generally understood to be necessary to allow critical information to be collected but not universally displayed in support of privacy legislation) makes the answer pretty clear. And as the charter Carlton points to indicates, this has been clear for quite some time. This is a REVIEW team. I believe it is well beyond our scope to debate whether the current protocol can be modified to meet new needs, to specify or design a replacement or to review possible replacements. And I have little interest in debating whether any new protocol should be called WHOIS (pretending it is the same), WHOIS-Mark-2, RDAP, WEIRDS, WIERDS or Betelgeuse. Alan At 05/07/2017 10:08 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote: Dear All: I believe this review will have to answer the question as to whether the current WHOIS protocol is fit to purpose in a evolved DNS environment in one or other job stream. Some may recall that the RDAP is being proposed as a fit and proper replacement. You may wish for background to examine the IETF charters for Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) from whence came RDAP. https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/charters Best, -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799<tel:(876)%20818-1799> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1;DM5PR03MB2714;27:B4FAKC1/EM3XOvHOPyoJ57PmCR+VxY4KD2MBdt6vWtlFgLD4tOOlcsV3foNFR93KAoIM9yzc2f7ovNf8Z27tswcz7fr1TllQNyArpqDRUCTG3fAIGxT2DaVNoDvfJnqPlCyckJle2pLGGdCKNOvr+w== X-Microsoft-Antispam-Mailbox-Delivery: ex:0;auth:0;dest:I;ENG:(400001000128)(400125000095)(20160514016)(520000050)(520002050)(750028)(400001001223)(400125100095)(61617095)(400001002128)(400125200095); _______________________________________________ RDS-WHOIS2-RT mailing list RDS-WHOIS2-RT@icann.org<mailto:RDS-WHOIS2-RT@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rds-whois2-rt _______________________________________________ RDS-WHOIS2-RT mailing list RDS-WHOIS2-RT@icann.org<mailto:RDS-WHOIS2-RT@icann.org> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rds-whois2-rt> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rds-whois2-rt -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:+49%206894%209396851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.rrpproxy.net/> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / <http://www.brandshelter.com/> www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.brandshelter.com/> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:+49%206894%209396901> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:+49%206894%209396851> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.rrpproxy.net/> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / <http://www.brandshelter.com/> www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.brandshelter.com/> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. 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participants (7)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Carlton Samuels -
Cathrin.BAUER-BULST＠ec.europa.eu -
Dmitry Belyavsky -
Stephanie Perrin -
Susan Kawaguchi -
Volker Greimann