Paul, Actually, when you think about it, it all depends on how many domains that registrar is attempting to register. Let's say company A has 5 registrars, and they have 100 domains they are going after, they could possibly be done for the day in 5 minutes with a modified check command. So they wouldn't pound the registry after those 5 minutes because they don't have any more domains to register anymore. Now if company B is going after 5,000 domains with there 5 registrars, they may be registering domains throughout the entire drop. I like the idea of the modified check command, but it doesn't solve the overall problem it just solves other problems. Donny
-----Original Message----- From: owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner- registrars@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Stahura Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 5:03 PM To: 'Jay Westerdal'; registrars@gnso.icann.org Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
David and Jay,
Not true. It would halt their pounding for that name, but they would still pound full-bore for another name because it is free.
The modified check command does not solve the problem because you can already tell very quickly whether a name is newly registered because a name just after that name becomes available (if name2.com is available then the name just before it, name1.com, was recently registered so stop pounding for name1.com and move on to name11.com if that is one you want). And even if you did know instantly (by using the modified check command you suggest) that a name was newly registered, you would just move on to the next name (or another name if the list is unordered) more quickly. You are full-pounding all the time regardless, just not for the newly registered name, but for other names that have yet to become available.
I agree with Jordyn it's a "tragedy of the commons problem" and the ratio model is the best solution.
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Jay Westerdal Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 3:02 PM To: registrars@gnso.icann.org Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
Agreed, if a modified check command was made, registrars could determine when the domain was registered and it would halt their pounding when they knew the domain was already aquired. 3/4 of all pounding is because of a lack of information about dates.
In a related issue PIR is purposing taking away dates in the info command. Thus producing less available information to registrars and thus will cause themselves more pounding on their registry.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of dwascheriar Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 2:34 PM To: Paul Goldstone; Paul Stahura Cc: 'Registrars Constituency'; David Wascher Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
Paul, The top 10% of the names being checked are the ones that causes Verisign's infrastructure to start causing them problems. The single domain in that 10% is exactly the point and business models for the new accreditation. These are all 3.5 year conversations and conference calls we had that would take care of the top 10% of the drop names. All in all, we came up with some very good ways to "Fix" this part of the problem while still allowing anyone with a drop business model to operate.
In MDR Verisign held a question and answer session which a modified check command would tell us if the domain was newly registered. If this little piece was implemented then approx the first 7 min of the drop would be hit the hardest and then drastically drop off reducing the load. Instead we continue to have less connections so to compensate new accreditations are being sought after.
David Wascher IAregistry.com
-----Original Message----- From: owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org]On Behalf Of Paul Goldstone Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 4:13 PM To: Paul Stahura Cc: 'Registrars Constituency' Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
That's going on the assumption that every new registrar is going for the same dropped name as existing registrars and not creating any new registrations either.
Anyway, I just feel that this is not our issue to resolve or pay for.
Regards, ~Paul
At 12:50 PM 10/6/2004 -0700, Paul Stahura wrote:
Its nearly the same problem, but in this case, instead of the costs (to pound with say another 100 or whatever connections they give a registrar) being "very close to absolutely nothing" the costs would still be very low. The only costs would be the ICANN accreditation fees and an incorporation fee, which are relatively low, plus these costs GO DOWN with the increasing number of registrars due to ICANN's budget structure. Note those "paying registrars" you speak of who are buying more access are not paying VeriSign for it. With status-quo, the math works out to a capacity size at over 4,000 registrars (400,000 connections all pounding full-bore) at stead-state. And again, we (all the pounding registrars) would not register even one more name than we did with the system that did not have that huge capacity investment.
-----Original Message----- From: Paul Goldstone [mailto:paulg@domainit.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 12:20 PM To: Paul Stahura Cc: Tim Ruiz; 'Bhavin Turakhia'; 'Registrars Constituency' Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
Paul,
That's a fair point but you can't pound the batch pool any more than the connections you're given. So, if registrars would use the max, whatever that max is (10, 20, 100 connections), why don't Verisign simply keep the original number of connections and yes, increase their capabilities as they get more paying registrars on board? ie. why is this even a discussion? Will we be discussing whois usage next?
Regards, ~Paul
At 11:18 AM 10/6/2004 -0700, Paul Stahura wrote:
Paul
Even if VeriSign spent nearly an infinite amount of money on this problem (to "expand their capabilities"), and if we kept the status quo, then, because it costs very close to absolutely nothing to pound the crap out of the registry, all registrars would increase their registry pounding rates to the level that would immediately use up absolutely all the vast capabilities that the nearly infinite amount of money purchased. While at the same time, we would not register even one more name than we did with the system that did not have the vast capabilities.
Best, Paul
-----Original Message----- From: owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-registrars@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Goldstone Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 10:00 AM To: Tim Ruiz Cc: 'Bhavin Turakhia'; 'Registrars Constituency' Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
Tim,
Why should we be forced to go with one of their two choices? The only solution to this supposed issue is that Verisign should invest the positive revenue they earn from batch pool registrations into expanding their capabilities like other businesses do when sales increase. Why should we help pay for registry obligations unless they are also willing to help pay for registrar obligations?
It doesn't seem fair that they've been lowering the batch pool connections at the same time as launching their own drop name service.
On a related note, did anyone notice the following ICANN announcement from 9/21/04 on the "Expired Domain Deletion Policy"?: http://www.icann.org/registrars/eddp.htm
The way I read it, except for registrant renewal or extenuating circumstances as defined in 3.7.5.1 of the RRA, a registrar must cancel a registration at the end of the auto-renew grace period. ICANN basically expanded on the original ambiguous policy. That might ruffle a few feathers but it doesn't go into effect until 6/21/05 though. Any idea why there's such a long lead time?
Regards, ~Paul
At 10:22 AM 10/6/2004 -0500, Tim Ruiz wrote:
Bhavin,
The forgiveness component consists of two criteria:
1. Fewer than 350,000 names under management, and
2. A ratio of attempted add commands to successful add commands of less than 200 to 1.
So at least the top 20 or so registrars will still not qualify for forgiveness.
Tim
-----Original Message----- From: Bhavin Turakhia [mailto:bhavin.t@logicboxes.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 10:43 PM To: 'Tim Ruiz'; 'Bhavin Turakhia'; 'Registrars Constituency' Subject: RE: [registrars] Verisign batch pool advisory
So while option 1 may not be ideal either, for now, it will make the usefulness of the *phantom* registrars pretty much nil.
Also, with Network Solutions' and Tucows' intention to offer a secondary market service to registrants with expiring/deleting names, far less valuable names are going to actually hit the drop list anyway. So I think the future value of the batch pool is going to change dramatically.
My greater concern is that implementing 1 will result in a situation where icann will not meet its budget sinc everyone will match the forgiveness criteria.
Im still out on the road all of this week and will only be back in office after 2 weeks ..... And therefore will be a lil quiet :)
-B