As a participant: I agree with everything Jim said, highlighting two points: - The new text for R2 still does not address Paul's concern about the recommendation to "continue" something that isn't already being done. I agree with Paul that if we change that from "continue" to "begin doing", we should provide some text in the document about how to go about it and why it's likely to be effective, and I really don't think we can. - The recasting of R2 and then merging it into R1, which Steve has posted, works for me, and I don't think it constitutes a full removal of R2 at this point. And I think it's important to address Paul's concern even if it should involve a bit of late-stage backtracking. If you all will recall, there was a lot of concern during the document development, and plenty of discussion about whether we should include R2. Honestly, I think we decided to keep R2 in large part because we were looking for recommendations to include. I (again, as a participant) am happy with Steve's suggestion for R1 and then otherwise removing R2 as now being merged with R1. Barry On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 8:55 AM James Galvin <galvin@elistx.com> wrote:
I’ve seen that others have supported this change. Unfortunately, I’m not so sure about the proposed recommendation 2.
My understanding of Paul’s comments is that ICANN org is currently not facilitating coordination. Thus, it seems wrong to me to suggest that ICANN org should continue doing exactly that.
I like the change to recommendation 1 and I’m inclined to delete recommendation 2. This matches Barry’s path 2 with recommendation 2 being subsumed by path 2.
A detailed concern with recommendation 2 as proposed is that the leading phrase — “In order to mitigate …” — does not belong in the recommendation. The “why” of a recommendation should be readily apparent elsewhere in the text.
If we want to support Geoff’s observation that “carving out a part of the namespace” is coordination, then that needs to be fully explained in the text, and I don’t believe it is. If I’ve missed something in the text please let me know.
Finally, responding to Warren’s concern that deleting a recommendation is a material change, in this case I don’t believe deleting this recommendation is material. I believe it is a clarification insofar as we are combining recommendations 1 and 2 based on comments from those who are going to have to act on these recommendations. This is a feature in my opinion. Others may have a different opinion.
Jim
On 11 Dec 2023, at 22:31, Steve Sheng wrote:
Thank you all. I have read through the comments as well as the document. Taking all the inputs, I proposed the following text:
Original text:
Recommendation 1: The SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to track and provide regular updates to the ICANN Board and community on both alternative protocols that make use of the domain namespace, and efforts to create mitigations and reduce risks inherent in the coexistence of multiple namespaces and protocols.
Recommendation 2: The SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to encourage collaboration and facilitate coordination among the various namespace communities.
Proposed text:
Recommendation 1: The SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to track and provide regular updates to the ICANN Board and community on both alternative protocols that make use of the domain namespace, and efforts to create mitigations and reduce risks inherent in the coexistence of multiple namespaces and protocols.
The SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to keep the ICANN community abreast of new developments through such means as the Emerging Identifier Technologies panels that have been presented at a number of ICANN meetings.
Recommendation 2: In order to mitigate the potential harms of collisions between namespaces used by alternative name systems and the DNS, the SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to facilitate coordination between the various alternative namespace communities and the namespace used by the DNS."
Please let me know if you are ok or have any objections to this proposal.
Best
Steve
On 12/11/23, 5:17 PM, "SSAC-Evo-Reso-WP on behalf of Geoff Huston" <ssac-evo-reso-wp-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ssac-evo-reso-wp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of gih902@gmail.com <mailto:gih902@gmail.com>> wrote:
Now, we did discuss this at length, and I believe it was the
referenced EIT panels that we were talking about. Paul is very clear
that those panels were *not* meant to be any sort of forum for
collaboration, and were *only* to inform the community.
Given his comment on this, I agree that we should reconsider
recommendation 2, with, as I see it, two likely outcomes:
1. We simply remove the recommendation.
2. We change the wording to refer more directly to the Emerging
Identifier Technologies panels, and say something like, "The SSAC
recommends that the ICANN organization continue to keep the ICANN
community abreast of new developments through such means as the
Emerging Identifier Technologies panels that have been presented at a
number of ICANN meetings."
If we choose path 2, we need to consider whether it's a separate
recommendation or gets subsumed into recommendation 1, which already
says, "The SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to
track and provide regular updates to the ICANN Board and community on
both alternative protocols that make use of the domain namespace, and
efforts to create mitigations and reduce risks inherent in the
coexistence of multiple namespaces and protocols."
I'd like to try to get this resolved this week by email, rather than
having another work party call, so let's please have a discussion here
on the work party mailing list.
Thoughts?
It all depends on how you read the recommendation - without a doubt name space collisions across these various alternative name spaces and the DNS exist and the recent efforts to mitigate the user impact of such collision's by carving out a part of the namespace is to my mind an example of such an effort at coordination between the DNA and alternative name systems.
We could simply make this more DNS-centric and say:
"In order to mitigate the potential harms of collisions between namespaces used by alternative name systems and the DNS, the SSAC recommends that the ICANN organization continue to encourage facilitate coordination between the various alternaive namespace communities and the namespace used by the DNS."
i.e. we have little to say if they talk to each other, but we prefer that to reduce collisions that they talk with the DNS folk.
Geoff
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