Dear Jeff, Thanks for the follow up and clarifying comments. That is helpful. We will take this back, review, and revert back to the IRT. Any changes will be made in the fee section, as the authoritative source, but we will also update other sections as appropriate. Best, Jared From: Jeff Neuman via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> Reply-To: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com> Date: Wednesday, April 2, 2025 at 12:07 To: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com>, "subpro-irt@icann.org" <subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Apologies for Call All, I just listened to the call, and I am not sure my questions were answered. Community TLD Issue: On the Community TLDs, my point had NOTHING to do with RVCs, so remove that from your minds for the moment. It only has to do with Spec 12. On Page 8 of the redline, ICANN added this language, “Please also note there will be a fee for the Registry Commitment Evaluation (RCE) process for Specification 12.” Again forget RVCs…….. Here is what it means: 1. Community Applicant pays Application Fee: $227,000 2. Community Applicant pays CPE Fee: $XX,XXXX 3. Community Pays Spec 12 RCE Fee $YY,YYYY Spec 12 is the Specification that deals with Communities. And it is the place where all community policies go. Again, NOT talking about additional RVCs here (which goes in Spec 13). Spec 12 used to be just a copy and paste from the application into Spec 12. Here, however, ICANN does not want every policy the registry proposes to be in Spec 12 because of its own decision on how it interprets its bylaws. So, what ICANN is saying is that the applicant has to pay ICANN yet another additional fee so ICANN’s legal team can draft Spec 12 for your agreement in way that is consistent with its bylaws……and that is what I think is wrong on so many levels. And because every community TLD must have a Spec 12, every community applicant must now pay that additional fee (above and beyond the CPE Fee). Yes, I heard the point that this is cost recovery, and that is what SubPro said it should be. But as part of every program, there are some costs that need to be absorbed as a cost of doing business. For example, I charge a certain fee for my consulting services. That doesn’t mean I charge additional money for my review of changes clients make to my consulting agreements. That is a cost of doing business. Similarly, ICANN should not be charging Applicants so that ICANN can be comfortable with the legal agreement it is requiring applicants to sign. Brand TLD You sort of addressed my Brand TLD question but then went in the wrong direction. When a brand applies for a .Brand TLD, all they have to show is: the TLD string is identical to the textual elements protectable under applicable law, of a registered trademark valid under applicable law, which registered trademark: * is recorded with, and issued a signed data mark file by, the Trademark Clearinghouse or any successor or alternative trademark validation authority appointed by ICANN, if such trademark meets the eligibility requirements of such validation authority (provided that Registry Operator is not required to maintain such recordation for more than one year); * is owned and used by the Registry Operator or its Affiliate in the ordinary course of Registry Operator’s or its Affiliates’ business in connection with the offering of any of the goods and/or services claimed in the trademark registration; * was issued to Registry Operator or its Affiliate prior to the filing of its TLD registry application with ICANN; * is used throughout the Term continuously in the ordinary course of business of Registry Operator or its Affiliate in connection with the offering of any of the goods and/or services identified in the trademark registration; * does not begin with a period or a dot; and * is used by Registry Operator or its Affiliate in the conduct of one or more of its businesses that are unrelated to the provision of TLD Registry Services; and only Registry Operator, its Affiliates or Trademark Licensees are registrants of domain names in the TLD and control the DNS records associated with domain names at any level in the TLD; the TLD is not a Generic String TLD (as defined in Specification 11); and Registry Operator has provided ICANN with an accurate and complete copy of such trademark registration. If they show all of this, they get the code of conduct exemption. However, what I thought I heard Jarrod say is that yes the brand eligibility covers the exemption, but that an extra fee would be added to the brand evaluation fee to evaluate the Spec 9 factors. And that is where it went off base. ICANN is not evaluating whether a brand also meets the factors in Spec 9 to get an exemption. It gets the exemption simply by being a Brand TLD. In contrast, Spec 9 Code of Conduct exemption are strictly for non-brand TLDs that want to be exclusive use TLDs. In order for a “non-brand” to get the exemption, it must satisfy the following 3 exemption criteria: * All domain name registrations in the TLD are registered to, and maintained by, Registry Operator for the exclusive use of Registry Operator or its Affiliates; * Registry Operator does not sell, distribute or transfer control or use of any registrations in the TLD to any third party that is not an Affiliate of Registry Operator; * Application of the Code of Conduct to the TLD is not necessary to protect the public interest. To illustrate the point further, a Brand TLD does not have to show any of the 3 exemption criteria in Spec 9. So please do not jack up the .Brand Evaluation fee to include the Spec 9 Code of Conduct Exemption Fee, which is where I thought Jarrod was going……. [cid:image001.png@01DBA3CA.F564B220] From: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com<mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com>> Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2025 12:30 PM To: subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: Re: Apologies for Call Hit send too soon...just meant to say that with Communities, we should not be punishing them by making them pay for the commitment analysis, which was caused by ICANN's interpretation of its Bylaws (which some of us still do not agree with). On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 12:28 PM Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com<mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com>> wrote: All, Sending apologies for the call later. I have a conflicting obligation. That said, I put comments into the TLD Type document, mostly on the unexpected added fees for Brands and Communities. These make no sense to me at all. 1. Brands - We are saying they have to pay for an evaluation to see if they are eligible to get a .brand. And then it says they have to pay for a Spec. 9 Code of Conduct Exemption as well....even though the Code of Conduct exemption is embedded in Spec 13 (Section 3). Thus, if they qualify to be a brand TLD, then there is No Need for a separate evaluation OR a separate fee? Sure, if they fail eligibility, then you can ask the applicant if it wants the Spec 9 evaluation and then it pays for that. But if it passes eligibility, then no fee and no separate code of conduct evaluation. 2. Communities - Wow, we are really hitting them hard. Not only are they going have to pay for the CPE, which can be a good chunk of change, but then we are also going to charge them for the privilege of putting their policies into Spec 12. Right now, a provision was added that states that after a Community passes CPE, it needs to pay a Registry Commitment Evaluation fee so that ICANN can figure out what can go into Spec 12. -- [Image removed by sender.] -- [Image removed by sender.]
