Agreed. As a legal entity, ICANN requires a binding set of laws to exist within. Fish can argue about the quality of the water, but they need it all the same. Best regards, John Laprise, Ph.D. Principal Consultant http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/ -----Original Message----- From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Phil Corwin Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 4:36 PM To: icannlists <icannlists@winston.com>; Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net>; ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Domain names 'located' within the US Chiming in to agree, ICANN will always be subject in some degree to the laws of its nation of incorporation more than others, but that is irrelevant unless those laws interfere with its technical and policymaking functions in a way that is consistently prejudicial to other nations and the community members who reside in them. The GAC is well equipped to speak out for those nations should such a situation ever arise. As Nigel noted, the only way to avoid that would be to convert ICANN from a multistakeholder organization led by the private sector, civil society and academia to a multilateral one controlled by governments. That "solution" is anathema to the overwhelming majority of the ICANN community. Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/Cell Twitter: @VlawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey -----Original Message----- From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of icannlists Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2017 4:13 PM To: Nigel Roberts; ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Domain names 'located' within the US I agree with Nigel. I have no particular desire to see a move of ICANN outside of the US speed ICANN's demise. Best, Paul -----Original Message----- From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Roberts Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 1:57 AM To: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Domain names 'located' within the US Parminder I feel this continued flagellation of deceased members of the genus Equus is getting somewhat repetitive. But I'll give this another shot, for the sheer fun of it. The courts of ANY other country in which ICANN would or should be iincorporated would have exactly the same superior and exclusive rights in theory. It may be so (that just as an example) Swiss law, and jurisdiction might have been more acceptable as ICANN's seat to many countries which are antipathetic to the United States. I fact I argued for Switzerland during the IFWP, so you can be assured I have been conscious of this issue for over 20 years. But complaining that ICANN is subject to US courts is just a "two legs bad, four legs good" comparison. The essential factors are a mature jurisdiction in a country that runs on the Rule of Law. As you know, we are where we are because of a number of historical factors, including where Saint Jon lived and worked, and (in my mildly cynical view) clever manoeuvres by certain key players back in 1998. (Hi Becky!). But ICANN would have to have been incorporated SOMEWHERE. There is no way round this, unless you set your face (as I get the impression you may have done) against the whole concept of multistakeholder management of internet names and numbers, and propose that ICANN should exist as a multilateral organisation, such as the United Nations. Those of use who have spent several decades advocating for multistakeholderism would, respectfully, hold a different view. Nigel
Thiago's email describes cases which clearly show that US public policies, law and courts have a superior and somewhat exclusive right to direct ICANN's actions, over that or any other jurisdiction (representing the corresponding country's sovereign will). This goes to the heart of the jurisdiction question that is the mandate of this group. This is unjust, and not acceptable, and therefore this group must look at options that are more just to everyone.
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