That adds up to twenty-four hours of calls in January. Three complete work days. Add in preparation time for the calls, and follow-up activities/discussions/drafting after, and I would venture that this proposes more than an entire work week in the month of january that volunteer members and participants are being asked to contribute. As for “We do not expect everyone to join every discussion on every topic.”, isn’t it important that the maximum number of participants and members have a comprehensive understanding of the Proposal and remaining issues at this late stage of development? Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal Virtualaw LLC 1155 F Street, NW Suite 1050 Washington, DC 20004 202-559-8597/Direct 202-559-8750/Fax 202-255-6172/cell Twitter: @VlawDC "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:41 AM To: Brenda Brewer Cc: ACCT-Staff; CCWG-Accountability Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Work plan in January/Meeting schedule One call when I sleep One call when I work One call when i wake Seems fair to me On Thursday, December 24, 2015, Brenda Brewer <brenda.brewer@icann.org<mailto:brenda.brewer@icann.org>> wrote: Holiday Greetings to all! Please find the January schedule of meetings below and also attached in pdf. Calendar invites soon to follow. You may also look at the CCWG Accountability Meetings Calendar wiki page here: https://community.icann.org/x/ogDxAg (located bottom of wiki page) 2016 January CCWG ACCT Meeting Schedule (subject to updates) Tuesday Calls Thursday Calls 5 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC 7 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC 12 Jan – 06:00-09:00 UTC 14 Jan – 06:00-09:00 UTC 19 Jan – 12:00-15:00 UTC 21 Jan – 12:00-15:00 UTC 26 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC 28 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC Kind regards, Brenda From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org');> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org');>] On Behalf Of Mathieu Weill Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 5:22 AM To: 'Accountability Cross Community' <accountability-cross-community@icann.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community@icann.org');>> Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] Work plan in January Dear Colleagues, In line with the work plan discussion held on call #72, we wish to inform you that we have decided to increase the number of calls per week to two to allow for an in-depth analysis of the input received on our Draft Proposal, and discuss any complex requests for change there may be. It is currently foreseen that this frequency of calls will only apply to the month of January. As discussed on 22 December, these calls will be plenary and topic-based. You will receive a list of topics in advance of the meetings so that you may plan your participation accordingly. Duration of the calls will also be extended to 3 hours to allow for ample time to complete our tasks. Calls will be cancelled (and/or duration will be reduced) if deemed unnecessary. Please note that staff will send invites as well as overview of the conference call calendar shortly. We look forward to reconvening in January and wish you a happy holiday season for those of you who celebrate. Best regards Mathieu – Thomas - León ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com> Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4489/11213 - Release Date: 12/19/15

Dear Thomas Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Agin. You have not replied to my multiple messages in this regard Tks Kavouss 2015-12-26 12:35 GMT+01:00 Thomas Rickert <rickert@anwaelte.de>:

Phil, all, This is just to let you know that we will discuss all your messages and proposals and get back to the group. However, let me offer a clarification on your comment below.

As for “We do not expect everyone to join every discussion on every topic.”, isn’t it important that the maximum number of participants and members have a comprehensive understanding

of the Proposal and remaining issues at this late stage of development?

It is in deed true that it would be desirable for a maximum number of individuals to join every discussion. In order to provide for that opportunity, we have deliberately proposed to keep all items in the CCWG and not tasked the WGs / sub teams to discuss the matter and suggest ways forward. However, there may be issues that individuals are not that much interested in and they could therefore choose not to join all discussions. Remember, we will not take any decisions in one meeting only.

I hope this helps, Thomas

*Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal*

*Virtualaw LLC*

*1155 F Street, NW*

*Suite 1050*

*Washington, DC 20004*

*202-559-8597 <202-559-8597>/Direct*

*202-559-8750 <202-559-8750>/Fax*

*202-255-6172 <202-255-6172>/cell*

*Twitter: @VlawDC*

*"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey*

*From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:41 AM *To:* Brenda Brewer *Cc:* ACCT-Staff; CCWG-Accountability *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Work plan in January/Meeting schedule

One call when I sleep

One call when I work

One call when i wake

Seems fair to me

On Thursday, December 24, 2015, Brenda Brewer <brenda.brewer@icann.org> wrote:

Holiday Greetings to all!

Please find the January schedule of meetings below and also attached in pdf. Calendar invites soon to follow.

You may also look at the CCWG Accountability Meetings Calendar wiki page here: https://community.icann.org/x/ogDxAg (located bottom of wiki page)

*2016 January CCWG ACCT Meeting Schedule **(subject to updates)*

*Tuesday Calls*

*Thursday Calls*

5 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

7 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

12 Jan – 06:00-09:00 UTC

14 Jan – 06:00-09:00 UTC

19 Jan – 12:00-15:00 UTC

21 Jan – 12:00-15:00 UTC

26 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

28 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

Kind regards,

Brenda

*From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Mathieu Weill *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 5:22 AM *To:* 'Accountability Cross Community' < accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] Work plan in January

Dear Colleagues,

In line with the work plan discussion held on call #72, we wish to inform you that we have decided to increase the number of calls per week to two to allow for an in-depth analysis of the input received on our Draft Proposal, and discuss any complex requests for change there may be. It is currently foreseen that this frequency of calls will only apply to the month of January.

As discussed on 22 December, these calls will be plenary and topic-based. You will receive a list of topics in advance of the meetings so that you may plan your participation accordingly.

Duration of the calls will also be extended to 3 hours to allow for ample time to complete our tasks. Calls will be cancelled (and/or duration will be reduced) if deemed unnecessary.

Please note that staff will send invites as well as overview of the conference call calendar shortly.

We look forward to reconvening in January and wish you a happy holiday season for those of you who celebrate.

Best regards

Mathieu – Thomas - León ------------------------------

No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4489/11213 - Release Date: 12/19/15

_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community

_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community

Regardless, we do have to take the time to come to as much consensus as we can within the group about finalising the report. It won't happen without us spending time talking with eachother!

I completely agree with Jordan. Given we have something to deliver, I expected to give more time than usual for CCWG in January. I see the additional calls suggested as a pragmatic way to help us make good progress. Izumi On 2015/12/25 14:51, Jordan Carter wrote:

Thanks Brenda

All, while I understand that there is some intensity here, it is less of a time commitment than travelling to and participating in a two day face to face meeting. I much prefer the calls to another such in-person gathering.

It should become clear in the early calls what the mood of the group is in respect of further changes to the proposal in response to the comments from SOs/ACs and the public. The fewer changes, I guess, the less time....?

Regardless, we do have to take the time to come to as much consensus as we can within the group about finalising the report. It won't happen without us spending time talking with eachother!

Cheers Jordan

On Friday, 25 December 2015, Brenda Brewer <brenda.brewer@icann.org> wrote:

...

Holiday Greetings to all!

Please find the January schedule of meetings below and also attached in pdf. Calendar invites soon to follow.

You may also look at the CCWG Accountability Meetings Calendar wiki page here: https://community.icann.org/x/ogDxAg (located bottom of wiki page)

*2016 January CCWG ACCT Meeting Schedule **(subject to updates)*

*Tuesday Calls*

*Thursday Calls*

5 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

7 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

12 Jan – 06:00-09:00 UTC

14 Jan – 06:00-09:00 UTC

19 Jan – 12:00-15:00 UTC

21 Jan – 12:00-15:00 UTC

26 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

28 Jan – 19:00-22:00 UTC

Kind regards,

Brenda

*From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org');> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org');>] *On Behalf Of *Mathieu Weill *Sent:* Thursday, December 24, 2015 5:22 AM *To:* 'Accountability Cross Community' < accountability-cross-community@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community@icann.org');>

...

*Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] Work plan in January

Dear Colleagues,

In line with the work plan discussion held on call #72, we wish to inform you that we have decided to increase the number of calls per week to two to allow for an in-depth analysis of the input received on our Draft Proposal, and discuss any complex requests for change there may be. It is currently foreseen that this frequency of calls will only apply to the month of January.

As discussed on 22 December, these calls will be plenary and topic-based. You will receive a list of topics in advance of the meetings so that you may plan your participation accordingly.

Duration of the calls will also be extended to 3 hours to allow for ample time to complete our tasks. Calls will be cancelled (and/or duration will be reduced) if deemed unnecessary.

Please note that staff will send invites as well as overview of the conference call calendar shortly.

We look forward to reconvening in January and wish you a happy holiday season for those of you who celebrate.

Best regards

Mathieu – Thomas - León

_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community

hi Eberhard, So: to cut through -- would you prefer a face to face gathering of the CCWG rather than a set of calls over the few weeks of January? Or would you propose some other approach? If we all propose a different approach where we hear one we don't like, we'll all have more ideas on the table to decide between. Merry Christmas... Jordan On 25 December 2015 at 08:35, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:

And I totally disagree.

Though, Jordan could be right if any of this was necessary and not needlessly forced on us by the Co-Chair(s) to get SOMETHING done no matter the outcome.

"Some intensity" doesn't do this farce justice, by the way, but if we really needed to do this then a weekend F2F with sufficient notice would be able to achieve more with less disruption.

But then again, that would be inclusive/participatory and we can't have something like that derail the agenda, now can we?

Or even having the plenum make decisions... The fewer the better, and especially not substantiative, "sensing the mood of the group" of course only about issues that fit into the plan.

If the idea really was to talk to each other we should talk to each other.

el

-- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini

On 25 Dec 2015, at 09:44, Izumi Okutani <izumi@nic.ad.jp> wrote:

...

I completely agree with Jordan.

Given we have something to deliver, I expected to give more time than usual for CCWG in January. I see the additional calls suggested as a pragmatic way to help us make good progress.

Izumi

...

On 2015/12/25 14:51, Jordan Carter wrote: Thanks Brenda

All, while I understand that there is some intensity here, it is less of a time commitment than travelling to and participating in a two day face to face meeting. I much prefer the calls to another such in-person gathering.

It should become clear in the early calls what the mood of the group is in respect of further changes to the proposal in response to the comments from SOs/ACs and the public. The fewer changes, I guess, the less time....?

Regardless, we do have to take the time to come to as much consensus as we can within the group about finalising the report. It won't happen without us spending time talking with eachother!

Cheers Jordan

---

Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community

-- Jordan Carter Chief Executive *InternetNZ* +64-4-495-2118 (office) | +64-21-442-649 (mob) Email: jordan@internetnz.net.nz Skype: jordancarter Web: www.internetnz.nz *A better world through a better Internet *

Dear All, Doctor Lisse suggestion seems quite reasonable and practical to hold a f2f meeting of one or two days in Europe rather than 8 •3 hours of talk . Such f2f must be well Plan. Kavouss Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Dec 2015, at 10:10, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:

I would prefer we take the time needed to come up with a fully baked proposal.

el

-- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini

...

On 25 Dec 2015, at 10:38, Jordan Carter <jordan@internetnz.net.nz> wrote:

hi Eberhard,

So: to cut through -- would you prefer a face to face gathering of the CCWG rather than a set of calls over the few weeks of January?

Or would you propose some other approach?

If we all propose a different approach where we hear one we don't like, we'll all have more ideas on the table to decide between.

Merry Christmas...

Jordan

...

On 25 December 2015 at 08:35, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote: And I totally disagree.

Though, Jordan could be right if any of this was necessary and not needlessly forced on us by the Co-Chair(s) to get SOMETHING done no matter the outcome.

"Some intensity" doesn't do this farce justice, by the way, but if we really needed to do this then a weekend F2F with sufficient notice would be able to achieve more with less disruption.

But then again, that would be inclusive/participatory and we can't have something like that derail the agenda, now can we?

Or even having the plenum make decisions... The fewer the better, and especially not substantiative, "sensing the mood of the group" of course only about issues that fit into the plan.

If the idea really was to talk to each other we should talk to each other.

el

-- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini

On 25 Dec 2015, at 09:44, Izumi Okutani <izumi@nic.ad.jp> wrote:

...

I completely agree with Jordan.

Given we have something to deliver, I expected to give more time than usual for CCWG in January. I see the additional calls suggested as a pragmatic way to help us make good progress.

Izumi

...

On 2015/12/25 14:51, Jordan Carter wrote: Thanks Brenda

All, while I understand that there is some intensity here, it is less of a time commitment than travelling to and participating in a two day face to face meeting. I much prefer the calls to another such in-person gathering.

It should become clear in the early calls what the mood of the group is in respect of further changes to the proposal in response to the comments from SOs/ACs and the public. The fewer changes, I guess, the less time....?

Regardless, we do have to take the time to come to as much consensus as we can within the group about finalising the report. It won't happen without us spending time talking with eachother!

Cheers Jordan

---

Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community

-- Jordan Carter

Chief Executive InternetNZ

+64-4-495-2118 (office) | +64-21-442-649 (mob) Email: jordan@internetnz.net.nz Skype: jordancarter Web: www.internetnz.nz

A better world through a better Internet

---

Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community