Darlene and all, Although I can appriciate a womans point of view very well, using emotive terms towards any Man stating anyting in a harsh manner, which I am well known for myself, in no way diminishes and in fact emphisizes his, or in some instances HER, point. This was indeed my point in my earlier response, and remains so. Ergo you did make your response one of a more personal nature accordingly, where Danny did not, especially not in a sexist manner. I would prefer, and strongly request, that sexist remarks or overtones be left out of any expression on any ICANN related issue if you don't mind... I too have also strongly disagreed with Danny on a number of issues, and still do as do most of our members which are about an even split of women vs men, BTW. Certainly women have a different view towards most issues, which is both expected and not at all at least unusual. That is as it may or should be, depending. And again, polite expression is usually preferable, but is not always adaquate in expressing the strength and varasity of expression, which is why multipul means of expression exist in most languages and nationalities that I am aware of. So as to being harsh as contributing in a negitive way to any discussion on any issue is pure nonsense. And even worse than nonsense if felt or considered and than not expressed in such a manner! To conclude, I thought that Dannys expressed thoughts were spot on and properly expressed, this time. Maybe not next time? Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 "Thompson, Darlene" wrote:
Jeffrey,
That statement was not aimed at Danny in any kind of a way personally but expresses the views of many in the rest of the world about NA's stance on many things. Don't see it as bashing Danny on a personal level but, in many ways, bashing the lot of us in NA.
Jeffrey, nothing else that I said was in any way bashing Danny but responding, point by point, to his comments. Yes, Danny's comments were "rather harshly put" and until Danny can learn to express his points in a more polite way, then he should expect to get bashed right back - althoug I made VERY certain not to do so as I refuse to lower myself in such a way any more.
Its amazing that, in person, Danny doesn't do this and seems to be a great guy to hang around. In e-mails, however, things seem to change. Perhaps its the medium that makes him think that his language is appropriate but it certainly discourages people from participating in other regions and actually adds to the problem. I have heard many a comment on this.
Thank you,
Darlene
----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf of Jeffrey A. Williams Sent: Fri 2/15/2008 8:01 PM To: At-Large Worldwide; aheineman@ntia.doc.gov Cc: IPC Subject: Re: [At-Large] Resolution of the Board of Directors related totheproposed Summit
Darlene and all,
Pardon me, but I didn't read any ""North American white male"-centric standard'" expressed in Danny's earlier remarks. However I do detect a significant unqualified and seemingly unjustified determination of desiring improperly at you attempting to bash Danny on such a false basis...
The North American as well as most of the EU nations mistrust of ICANN is well justified and ICANN has well earned that mistrust. Given the a few weeks ago Peter had sent the NTIA a letter desiring to be released for the DOC/NTIA's oversight would seem to indicate not only from a timing stand point, but from a growing/mounting mound of evidence that ICANN is in violation of a number of US federal statutes, and is likely to desire to seek refuge in any country to host ICANN in order to avoid future prosecution. Additionally as the IPC is loosing some of the public advantage it once enjoyed due mainly to one of it's members, namely the RIAA constant and misguided legal strategy to control the DNS and Domain name system amongst other areas of the Internet experience, it is obvious to even the casual observer that ICANN's board now populated with IPC centric members, is very concerned as to their creditability and future personal freedom or financial where with all... And the should be given the IPC's members errant activities!
Regards,
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln
"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
"Thompson, Darlene" wrote:
Danny,
1. I wasn't involved in this particular budget, although I will be for Cairo. I will have to get back to you on the budget calculations when I get back home which won't be for about a week and a half as I am presenting at another conference in Vancouver in the interim.
2. I hear ya but we cannot all judge the rest of the world by the usual "North American white male"-centric standard. I am hearing from other regions that just cannot get input from their ALSs. Why? Various reasons. Although, I look at myself, with all of the advantages in the world, and its taken 3 ICANN meetings and a year and a half for me to finally start putting everything together and in perspective and become up to speed on the issues. And I'm still not anywhere NEAR where you are but doing my best. Many others have not had the benefits of the meetings and discussions that I have had so I can only imagine how they are feeling. Especially when they see discussions like this happening on list. Can you imagine how discouraging that is?
3. The ALSs that MIGHT already have a clue in NA won't become an ALS because of mistrust of ICANN (imagine!) so we cannot even engage those ones. This needs to be cleared up and both you and I know the reasons behind this.
4. Of the five issues that you pointed out below, even *I* was only aware of one of them. Better lines of communication are REALLY necessary.
I really hope that my friends in other regions will respond to your e-mail as this is the last one that I will send on this topice but they are probably in the air right now. As I am still available and on-line I am acting as a stop-gap to try to answer your questions but am probably not the most experienced person in the world to do so.
Darlene
--------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyounger@yahoo.com] Sent: Fri 2/15/2008 9:59 AM To: Thompson, Darlene; At-Large Worldwide Cc: vb@bertola.eu Subject: RE: [At-Large] Resolution of the Board of Directors related to theproposed Summit Darlene,
1. As per the ICANN Policy VP "US$7,000 is the estimate ICANN uses for international travel and is based on business class purchased 45+ days in advance through ICANN's travel agents." -- see http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/council/msg04282.html
If the At-Large intends to provide travel funding for each of the 100+ ALSs, then the budgeted amount will exceed $700,000 (by standard calculations).
2. I'm really getting tired of hearing this song and dance about the poor uneducated, unengaged non-contributing ALSs. Each one of them agreed upon signing up to a defined set of responsibilities (that most all have ignored) that boil down to this -- paying attention to what's going on, and reporting back with policy advice.
Since the Los Angeles session we have seen the following developments:
a. Network Solutions engaging in front-running (or, more properly, "domain reservation" activities). b. registrants at Belgiumdomains being unable to manage their accounts as their registrar has been locked-out of VeriSign by Court Order stemming from the Dell typosquatting lawsuit c. the CADNA submission/research on drop-catching issues d. the change put through by .travel management allowing for PPC speculation in dot travel, along with the .travel registry being put up for sale e. a board member (Rita Rodin), who functions as legal counsel for Telnic, engaged in active discussions on the .tel contractual amendments (a slight conflict of interest, wouldn't you think?).
Yet the ALAC and the ALSs have had nothing to say about any of these issues... poor babies, they can't use a computer like the rest of us to keep current on issues -- they have to be led by the hand and "educated".
Sorry, but this is a waste of money that will produce no beneficial results. Those that care make an effort to pay attention and manage to participate (as evinced by years of member participation in the GA that saw a subscriber list in excess of 1000 participants). None of them had to be spoon fed on the registrant's dime.
--- "Thompson, Darlene" <DThompson@GOV.NU.CA> wrote:
Danny,
#1 - See my e-mail to Vittorio wherein I correct the amount. I know you got that amount from me in the first place but we have worked really hard this week to bring that down.
#2 - Its rather hard for ALSs to finalize serious documents on issues that actually concern the community, perform analyses, make concrete recommentations and such if they aren't adequately engaged or educated on the issues at stake. This is precisely what the Summit is geared to correct.
Darlene
________________________________
From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf of Danny Younger Sent: Fri 2/15/2008 7:57 AM To: 'At-Large Worldwide' Cc: vb@bertola.eu Subject: [At-Large] Resolution of the Board of Directors related to theproposed Summit
Re: "Do I get it well?"
Yes, Vittorio, you get it well.
While other advisory bodies will be busy working, finalizing serious documents on issues that actually concern the community, performing analyses, making concrete recommendations and such, the at-large will be busy wasting a half million dollars of registrant monies on a giant group hug.
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