Interestingly, that language would be considered ridiculously unenforceable, here in the US but apparently is normal, under Dutch law Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.InnovatorsNetwork.org<http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org> Main: +1 (202) 827-7594 Direct: +1 (202) 420-7483 ________________________________ From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 4:47:25 PM To: Greg Shatan [ALAC] <gregshatanalac@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I Thanks Greg And I agree with the IPC - it is extraordinary that ICANN would seek such a waiver. This should absolutely be on the table for discussion and someone from ICANN Org should explain why they are taking such an extraordinary step as seeking to legally deny all responsibility for ANY negligence on their part that could impact on attendees (even if totally unrelated to COVID). I’d rather attend by zoom than run the risk of being injured through negligence on the part of ICANN and have no legal avenue of recovery. I’d be much happier if the last phrase (even if arising from the negligence or fault) were omitted. It is that phrase that goes beyond what could be reasonably expected, given COVID. This is particularly true for ALAC, given that many, if not most, of the ALAC attendees would need to pay for any injury incurred - regardless of whether ICANN was negligent. Holly On Apr 28, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Greg Shatan [ALAC] via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: As an additional data point, I will note that the IPC, which is chock full of American lawyers, was up in arms about this and held a special meeting just to discuss the waiver. (I did not attend as I’ve stepped back from IPC while on the ALAC.) My understanding of the ultimate conclusion of that meeting was to live with the waiver and not try to fight it. I’ll need to see what the reasoning is. But I assume that if IPC thought it was worth making a stink about, they would have done so. This should not dissuade us from discussing the waiver — it’s just worth knowing. Greg On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:54 PM Antony Van Couvering via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: We are litigious, certainly, but it is requirements like these that make us so. Suspicious minds might wonder if one of the staff or directors has a known STD and a rampant libido and ICANN legal is worried about being held responsible for a syphilis outbreak. Or whether speaking in acronyms and boring everyone in near proximity about the progress of their working group is an infectious disease that ICANN is worried about being blamed for. The possibilities are endless... On Apr 27, 2022, at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. 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