info on waiver to attend ICANN74I
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. _https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
This is exactly what I have been thinking Roberto. Is it specifically designed as a disincentive to attend in person? It feels that way. Marita On 2022-04-27 10:33 p.m., Roberto Gaetano wrote:
Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
/I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, *even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN* /
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. _https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
*I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN *
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. *https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130
Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated. Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org *YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION * *Mobile 437-237-4655* On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
*I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN *
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. *https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- "The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple".
Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Hi Glan You and Roberto are quite correct. No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence. It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me. If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation. Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN??? Holly
On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated.
Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org <http://www.virtualsig.org/> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf <https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf> Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed <https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed>.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large>
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-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large>
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May I ask under which legal order ICANNN74 is organised? A waiver makes sense ... nobody knows the risks ... but a duty of care of ICANN is a must. ERich SCHWEIGHOFER Erich ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien, Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag. rer.soc.oec. Dr. iur. Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud (freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040 Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu, Tel. +32 2 29 52283) Rechtsinformatik an der Uni-Wien Sprecher des Vorstands der ARI Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, Juridicum, Universität Wien Vorsitz: iris-conferences.eu Präsident: WZRI LII-Austria CEILI RI@ ADRI Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung (auch Abteilung für Völkerrecht), Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, Zi. 546, 1010 Wien AT, Tel. +43 1 4277 35305 (Anrufbeantworter) https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at, https://rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY, https://iris-conferences.eu, https://wzri.eu office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY; office@iris-conferences.eu; rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at Bitte um Teilnahme und Beiträge: IRI§22 https://iris-conferences.eu, Frühlingssemester: Event Rechtslogik in der Praxis Do 31.03.22, 16-19 Uhr (gemeinsam mit ReMeP) Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu Schriftenreihe Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY & IRIS-Journal: https://irisj.eu PHAIDRA ________________________________________ Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] im Auftrag von Holly Raiche via At-Large [at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2022 02:44 An: Glenn McKnight Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I Hi Glan You and Roberto are quite correct. No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence. It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me. If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation. Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN??? Holly On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated. Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org/> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655 On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
A waiver may be the norm in some jurisdictions and that is fine. However, this is a global community so that the wording of the waiver document should be a little bit more thoughtful towards the sensibilities of those who believe their rights are being infringed and to cover certain wording that has already been identified as offensive. The "duty of care" expressed in the document ignores the fact that, even if a person may suffer illness or other harm due to something ICANN has done or imposed, participants will have to take responsibility for themselves. Personal insurance is their own responsibility. There is no duty of care or consideration that these people are at the meeting to specifically carry on with voluntary work that they normally carry out in their own spare time and homes, and at their own expense, regardless of what inconveniences it may cause them personally (considering time zones of virtual meetings and at the same time many coping with recovery from the pandemic). The wording of the waiver implies that there is no care, because ultimately they are not ICANN's responsibility, regardless of the work and effort these individuals have contributed to ICANN over many long years for some of them, as part of the bottom up multistakeholder model that ICANN takes credit for. This is a personal view. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 1:36 PM SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
May I ask under which legal order ICANNN74 is organised? A waiver makes sense ... nobody knows the risks ... but a duty of care of ICANN is a must.
ERich
SCHWEIGHOFER Erich ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien, Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag. rer.soc.oec. Dr. iur. Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud (freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040 Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu, Tel. +32 2 29 52283) Rechtsinformatik an der Uni-Wien Sprecher des Vorstands der ARI Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, Juridicum, Universität Wien Vorsitz: iris-conferences.eu Präsident: WZRI LII-Austria CEILI RI@ ADRI Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung (auch Abteilung für Völkerrecht), Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, Zi. 546, 1010 Wien AT, Tel. +43 1 4277 35305 (Anrufbeantworter) https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at, https://rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY, https://iris-conferences.eu, https://wzri.eu office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY; office@iris-conferences.eu; rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at
Bitte um Teilnahme und Beiträge: IRI§22 https://iris-conferences.eu, Frühlingssemester: Event Rechtslogik in der Praxis Do 31.03.22, 16-19 Uhr (gemeinsam mit ReMeP) Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu Schriftenreihe Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY & IRIS-Journal: https://irisj.eu PHAIDRA ________________________________________ Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] im Auftrag von Holly Raiche via At-Large [at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2022 02:44 An: Glenn McKnight Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I
Hi Glan
You and Roberto are quite correct. No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence. It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me. If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation.
Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN???
Holly
On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated.
Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org/> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Hi everyone, I suppose a community call with the ICANN General Counsel would allay some of this concerns. There is obviously a reason behind the waiver and the it would be more ideal to get the logic or reasoning behind it so that we can have a basis for reasonable counter arguments otherwise it appears as if ICANN is being cajoled into hosting a physical meeting while it is unprepared. I take this waiver to be like a travel advisory. Regards On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:10 AM Maureen Hilyard via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
A waiver may be the norm in some jurisdictions and that is fine. However, this is a global community so that the wording of the waiver document should be a little bit more thoughtful towards the sensibilities of those who believe their rights are being infringed and to cover certain wording that has already been identified as offensive.
The "duty of care" expressed in the document ignores the fact that, even if a person may suffer illness or other harm due to something ICANN has done or imposed, participants will have to take responsibility for themselves. Personal insurance is their own responsibility.
There is no duty of care or consideration that these people are at the meeting to specifically carry on with voluntary work that they normally carry out in their own spare time and homes, and at their own expense, regardless of what inconveniences it may cause them personally (considering time zones of virtual meetings and at the same time many coping with recovery from the pandemic).
The wording of the waiver implies that there is no care, because ultimately they are not ICANN's responsibility, regardless of the work and effort these individuals have contributed to ICANN over many long years for some of them, as part of the bottom up multistakeholder model that ICANN takes credit for.
This is a personal view.
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 1:36 PM SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
May I ask under which legal order ICANNN74 is organised? A waiver makes sense ... nobody knows the risks ... but a duty of care of ICANN is a must.
ERich
SCHWEIGHOFER Erich ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien, Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag. rer.soc.oec. Dr. iur. Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud (freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040 Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu, Tel. +32 2 29 52283) Rechtsinformatik an der Uni-Wien Sprecher des Vorstands der ARI Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, Juridicum, Universität Wien Vorsitz: iris-conferences.eu Präsident: WZRI LII-Austria CEILI RI@ ADRI Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung (auch Abteilung für Völkerrecht), Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, Zi. 546, 1010 Wien AT, Tel. +43 1 4277 35305 (Anrufbeantworter) https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at, https://rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY, https://iris-conferences.eu, https://wzri.eu office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY; office@iris-conferences.eu; rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at
Bitte um Teilnahme und Beiträge: IRI§22 https://iris-conferences.eu, Frühlingssemester: Event Rechtslogik in der Praxis Do 31.03.22, 16-19 Uhr (gemeinsam mit ReMeP) Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu Schriftenreihe Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY & IRIS-Journal: https://irisj.eu PHAIDRA ________________________________________ Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] im Auftrag von Holly Raiche via At-Large [at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2022 02:44 An: Glenn McKnight Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I
Hi Glan
You and Roberto are quite correct. No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence. It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me. If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation.
Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN???
Holly
On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated.
Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org/> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<; http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<; http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<; http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254733206359 Skype: barrack.otieno PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
Thanks Barak Unhappily, the waivers must be signed in the next day or so, so probably there is not time for a discussion. I think we can all agree, however, that there are genuine concerns in this community about the waiver. My concern is that, far from being an ‘advisory’, it is an attempt (that would most likely be thrown out of court) to escape liability for negligence generally rather than arising from COVID. The danger for ICANN is the unpleasant taste it leaves in the mouths of the members of its multi stakeholder model that it is so proud of. Holly
On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Barrack Otieno via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I suppose a community call with the ICANN General Counsel would allay some of this concerns. There is obviously a reason behind the waiver and the it would be more ideal to get the logic or reasoning behind it so that we can have a basis for reasonable counter arguments otherwise it appears as if ICANN is being cajoled into hosting a physical meeting while it is unprepared. I take this waiver to be like a travel advisory.
Regards
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:10 AM Maureen Hilyard via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: A waiver may be the norm in some jurisdictions and that is fine. However, this is a global community so that the wording of the waiver document should be a little bit more thoughtful towards the sensibilities of those who believe their rights are being infringed and to cover certain wording that has already been identified as offensive.
The "duty of care" expressed in the document ignores the fact that, even if a person may suffer illness or other harm due to something ICANN has done or imposed, participants will have to take responsibility for themselves. Personal insurance is their own responsibility.
There is no duty of care or consideration that these people are at the meeting to specifically carry on with voluntary work that they normally carry out in their own spare time and homes, and at their own expense, regardless of what inconveniences it may cause them personally (considering time zones of virtual meetings and at the same time many coping with recovery from the pandemic).
The wording of the waiver implies that there is no care, because ultimately they are not ICANN's responsibility, regardless of the work and effort these individuals have contributed to ICANN over many long years for some of them, as part of the bottom up multistakeholder model that ICANN takes credit for.
This is a personal view.
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 1:36 PM SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: May I ask under which legal order ICANNN74 is organised? A waiver makes sense ... nobody knows the risks ... but a duty of care of ICANN is a must.
ERich
SCHWEIGHOFER Erich ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien, Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag. rer.soc.oec. Dr. iur. Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud (freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040 Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu <mailto:erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu>, Tel. +32 2 29 52283) Rechtsinformatik an der Uni-Wien Sprecher des Vorstands der ARI Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, Juridicum, Universität Wien Vorsitz: iris-conferences.eu <http://iris-conferences.eu/> Präsident: WZRI LII-Austria CEILI RI@ ADRI Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung (auch Abteilung für Völkerrecht), Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, Zi. 546, 1010 Wien AT, Tel. +43 1 4277 35305 (Anrufbeantworter) https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at <https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at/>, https://rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY <https://rechtsinformatik.academy/>, https://iris-conferences.eu <https://iris-conferences.eu/>, https://wzri.eu <https://wzri.eu/> office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY; office@iris-conferences.eu <mailto:office@iris-conferences.eu>; rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at <mailto:rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at>; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at <mailto:Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at>
Bitte um Teilnahme und Beiträge: IRI§22 https://iris-conferences.eu <https://iris-conferences.eu/>, Frühlingssemester: Event Rechtslogik in der Praxis Do 31.03.22, 16-19 Uhr (gemeinsam mit ReMeP) Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu <http://jusletter-it.eu/> Schriftenreihe Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY & IRIS-Journal: https://irisj.eu <https://irisj.eu/> PHAIDRA ________________________________________ Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] im Auftrag von Holly Raiche via At-Large [at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2022 02:44 An: Glenn McKnight Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I
Hi Glan
You and Roberto are quite correct. No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence. It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me. If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation.
Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN???
Holly
On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote:
Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated.
Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org <http://www.virtualsig.org/><http://www.virtualsig.org/ <http://www.virtualsig.org/>> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf <https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf>
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed <https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed>.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
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Well, Holly I don't actually believe there's I'll intentions and ICANN is do8ng EVERYTHING they can think of to keep us safe. This is just a bunch of lawyers trying to protect their client. My guess is that it is almost certain SOMEONE will get sick and it's anyone's guess how they will react. Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.InnovatorsNetwork.org<http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org> Main: +1 (202) 827-7594 Direct: +1 (202) 420-7483 ________________________________ From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 10:12:12 PM To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I Thanks Barak Unhappily, the waivers must be signed in the next day or so, so probably there is not time for a discussion. I think we can all agree, however, that there are genuine concerns in this community about the waiver. My concern is that, far from being an ‘advisory’, it is an attempt (that would most likely be thrown out of court) to escape liability for negligence generally rather than arising from COVID. The danger for ICANN is the unpleasant taste it leaves in the mouths of the members of its multi stakeholder model that it is so proud of. Holly On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Barrack Otieno via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Hi everyone, I suppose a community call with the ICANN General Counsel would allay some of this concerns. There is obviously a reason behind the waiver and the it would be more ideal to get the logic or reasoning behind it so that we can have a basis for reasonable counter arguments otherwise it appears as if ICANN is being cajoled into hosting a physical meeting while it is unprepared. I take this waiver to be like a travel advisory. Regards On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:10 AM Maureen Hilyard via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: A waiver may be the norm in some jurisdictions and that is fine. However, this is a global community so that the wording of the waiver document should be a little bit more thoughtful towards the sensibilities of those who believe their rights are being infringed and to cover certain wording that has already been identified as offensive. The "duty of care" expressed in the document ignores the fact that, even if a person may suffer illness or other harm due to something ICANN has done or imposed, participants will have to take responsibility for themselves. Personal insurance is their own responsibility. There is no duty of care or consideration that these people are at the meeting to specifically carry on with voluntary work that they normally carry out in their own spare time and homes, and at their own expense, regardless of what inconveniences it may cause them personally (considering time zones of virtual meetings and at the same time many coping with recovery from the pandemic). The wording of the waiver implies that there is no care, because ultimately they are not ICANN's responsibility, regardless of the work and effort these individuals have contributed to ICANN over many long years for some of them, as part of the bottom up multistakeholder model that ICANN takes credit for. This is a personal view. On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 1:36 PM SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: May I ask under which legal order ICANNN74 is organised? A waiver makes sense ... nobody knows the risks ... but a duty of care of ICANN is a must. ERich SCHWEIGHOFER Erich ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien, Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag. rer.soc.oec. Dr. iur. Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud (freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040 Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu<mailto:erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu>, Tel. +32 2 29 52283) Rechtsinformatik an der Uni-Wien Sprecher des Vorstands der ARI Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, Juridicum, Universität Wien Vorsitz: iris-conferences.eu<http://iris-conferences.eu/> Präsident: WZRI LII-Austria CEILI RI@ ADRI Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung (auch Abteilung für Völkerrecht), Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, Zi. 546, 1010 Wien AT, Tel. +43 1 4277 35305 (Anrufbeantworter) https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at<https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at/>, https://rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY<https://rechtsinformatik.academy/>, https://iris-conferences.eu<https://iris-conferences.eu/>, https://wzri.eu<https://wzri.eu/> office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY<mailto:office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY>; office@iris-conferences.eu<mailto:office@iris-conferences.eu>; rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at<mailto:rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at>; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at<mailto:Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at> Bitte um Teilnahme und Beiträge: IRI§22 https://iris-conferences.eu<https://iris-conferences.eu/>, Frühlingssemester: Event Rechtslogik in der Praxis Do 31.03.22, 16-19 Uhr (gemeinsam mit ReMeP) Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu<http://jusletter-it.eu/> Schriftenreihe Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY & IRIS-Journal: https://irisj.eu<https://irisj.eu/> PHAIDRA ________________________________________ Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] im Auftrag von Holly Raiche via At-Large [at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2022 02:44 An: Glenn McKnight Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I Hi Glan You and Roberto are quite correct. No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence. It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me. If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation. Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN??? Holly On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote: Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated. Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org/><http://www.virtualsig.org/> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655 On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. 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With apologies to former late show host David Letterman and thanks to all those who provided input, here are my top 10 reasons why this waiver is a bad idea for ICANN and for the community: 10. It is insensitive to the global community as it can be interpreted as an exportation of U.S.-based litigious culture 9. It disregards the fact that participants at ICANN meetings have always willingly and knowingly accepted personal responsibility for health issues that arise during meetings 8. It is a disincentive to attending ICANN meetings in person, thereby damaging the ability of the community to work together 7. Concerns which have arisen throughout the community about the broad scope of the waiver are not being addressed – including legal opinions warning potential participants against signing. 6. No one is taking ownership of this waiver. The Board position on it is unclear 5. There has been no general explanation to the community or any attempt seek buy-in for this waiver 4. This kind of blanket waiver could be unenforceable and in that case, serves only as intimidation 3. The waiver infringes on individual rights 2. ICANN appears to be abandoning its duty of care to the participating community who are voluntarily contributing their time and energy to fulfilling ICANN's mandate to operate as a bottom-up multistakeholder organization *Top reason why this waiver is a really bad idea:* *1. It leaves a lasting unpleasant taste in the mouths of participants contributing to ICANN's multistakeholder model -- which is presented as a source of pride and accomplishment to the internet governance community.* Marita (now signing off on this topic -- thanks for bearing with me) ** Marita **
Marita, +1 (x10) CW
On 28 Apr 2022, at 16:31, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
With apologies to former late show host David Letterman and thanks to all those who provided input, here are my top 10 reasons why this waiver is a bad idea for ICANN and for the community:
10. It is insensitive to the global community as it can be interpreted as an exportation of U.S.-based litigious culture 9. It disregards the fact that participants at ICANN meetings have always willingly and knowingly accepted personal responsibility for health issues that arise during meetings 8. It is a disincentive to attending ICANN meetings in person, thereby damaging the ability of the community to work together 7. Concerns which have arisen throughout the community about the broad scope of the waiver are not being addressed – including legal opinions warning potential participants against signing. 6. No one is taking ownership of this waiver. The Board position on it is unclear 5. There has been no general explanation to the community or any attempt seek buy-in for this waiver 4. This kind of blanket waiver could be unenforceable and in that case, serves only as intimidation 3. The waiver infringes on individual rights 2. ICANN appears to be abandoning its duty of care to the participating community who are voluntarily contributing their time and energy to fulfilling ICANN's mandate to operate as a bottom-up multistakeholder organization Top reason why this waiver is a really bad idea: 1. It leaves a lasting unpleasant taste in the mouths of participants contributing to ICANN's multistakeholder model -- which is presented as a source of pride and accomplishment to the internet governance community. Marita (now signing off on this topic -- thanks for bearing with me) Marita _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Thanks Marita to express in English what majority of those non native in this language would like to express in such clear way. Vanda Scartezini Sent from my iPhone Sorry for typos On 28 Apr 2022, at 11:31, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote: With apologies to former late show host David Letterman and thanks to all those who provided input, here are my top 10 reasons why this waiver is a bad idea for ICANN and for the community: 10. It is insensitive to the global community as it can be interpreted as an exportation of U.S.-based litigious culture 9. It disregards the fact that participants at ICANN meetings have always willingly and knowingly accepted personal responsibility for health issues that arise during meetings 8. It is a disincentive to attending ICANN meetings in person, thereby damaging the ability of the community to work together 7. Concerns which have arisen throughout the community about the broad scope of the waiver are not being addressed – including legal opinions warning potential participants against signing. 6. No one is taking ownership of this waiver. The Board position on it is unclear 5. There has been no general explanation to the community or any attempt seek buy-in for this waiver 4. This kind of blanket waiver could be unenforceable and in that case, serves only as intimidation 3. The waiver infringes on individual rights 2. ICANN appears to be abandoning its duty of care to the participating community who are voluntarily contributing their time and energy to fulfilling ICANN's mandate to operate as a bottom-up multistakeholder organization Top reason why this waiver is a really bad idea: 1. It leaves a lasting unpleasant taste in the mouths of participants contributing to ICANN's multistakeholder model -- which is presented as a source of pride and accomplishment to the internet governance community. Marita (now signing off on this topic -- thanks for bearing with me) Marita _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Marita Your points are well taken. I am a US lawyer, but I do not think the lawyers should have the final say on something like this. Unfortunately I have found that the legal departments of ISOC and ICANN go overboard with loading on things like this waiver. The waiver is not even that useful since lawsuits can still be initiated, which probably ICANN would want to settle rather than be embarrassed. I would ask also whether there has ever been an instance where ICANN was sued for something that happended at one of its events. And, if no one owns the waiver, then it should be junked. John More
On Apr 28, 2022, at 10:31 AM, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
With apologies to former late show host David Letterman and thanks to all those who provided input, here are my top 10 reasons why this waiver is a bad idea for ICANN and for the community:
10. It is insensitive to the global community as it can be interpreted as an exportation of U.S.-based litigious culture 9. It disregards the fact that participants at ICANN meetings have always willingly and knowingly accepted personal responsibility for health issues that arise during meetings 8. It is a disincentive to attending ICANN meetings in person, thereby damaging the ability of the community to work together 7. Concerns which have arisen throughout the community about the broad scope of the waiver are not being addressed – including legal opinions warning potential participants against signing. 6. No one is taking ownership of this waiver. The Board position on it is unclear 5. There has been no general explanation to the community or any attempt seek buy-in for this waiver 4. This kind of blanket waiver could be unenforceable and in that case, serves only as intimidation 3. The waiver infringes on individual rights 2. ICANN appears to be abandoning its duty of care to the participating community who are voluntarily contributing their time and energy to fulfilling ICANN's mandate to operate as a bottom-up multistakeholder organization Top reason why this waiver is a really bad idea: 1. It leaves a lasting unpleasant taste in the mouths of participants contributing to ICANN's multistakeholder model -- which is presented as a source of pride and accomplishment to the internet governance community. Marita (now signing off on this topic -- thanks for bearing with me) Marita _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Thanks Marita This says it all. We can only hope the Board is listening and gets better (and more appropriate) legal advice next time. Holly
On Apr 29, 2022, at 12:31 AM, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
With apologies to former late show host David Letterman and thanks to all those who provided input, here are my top 10 reasons why this waiver is a bad idea for ICANN and for the community:
10. It is insensitive to the global community as it can be interpreted as an exportation of U.S.-based litigious culture 9. It disregards the fact that participants at ICANN meetings have always willingly and knowingly accepted personal responsibility for health issues that arise during meetings 8. It is a disincentive to attending ICANN meetings in person, thereby damaging the ability of the community to work together 7. Concerns which have arisen throughout the community about the broad scope of the waiver are not being addressed – including legal opinions warning potential participants against signing. 6. No one is taking ownership of this waiver. The Board position on it is unclear 5. There has been no general explanation to the community or any attempt seek buy-in for this waiver 4. This kind of blanket waiver could be unenforceable and in that case, serves only as intimidation 3. The waiver infringes on individual rights 2. ICANN appears to be abandoning its duty of care to the participating community who are voluntarily contributing their time and energy to fulfilling ICANN's mandate to operate as a bottom-up multistakeholder organization Top reason why this waiver is a really bad idea: 1. It leaves a lasting unpleasant taste in the mouths of participants contributing to ICANN's multistakeholder model -- which is presented as a source of pride and accomplishment to the internet governance community. Marita (now signing off on this topic -- thanks for bearing with me) Marita _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Glenn Short answer – no. We included the waivers from both IETF and ARIN in our reconsideration request to ICANN: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/reconsideration-22-2-nnic-bis-request-... Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Wednesday, 27 April 2022 at 22:53 To: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated. Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655 On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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I have already signed to attend F2F meeting from NOMCOM in the US, but due the location the waiver makes more sense. However I believe this request for reconsideration is an important standing of the community when the meeting is in a third country. Vanda Scartezini E-mail: vanda@scartezini.org<mailto:vanda@scartezini.org> Mobile: + 55 11 981811464 Skype: vanda.scartezini From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Thursday, 28 April 2022 21:50 To: Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I Glenn Short answer – no. We included the waivers from both IETF and ARIN in our reconsideration request to ICANN: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/reconsideration-22-2-nnic-bis-request-... Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Wednesday, 27 April 2022 at 22:53 To: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi As pointed out that ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event. On the other hand, waivers doesn't protect those that perpetuate negligence, you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated. Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org> YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION Mobile 437-237-4655 On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
We are litigious, certainly, but it is requirements like these that make us so. Suspicious minds might wonder if one of the staff or directors has a known STD and a rampant libido and ICANN legal is worried about being held responsible for a syphilis outbreak. Or whether speaking in acronyms and boring everyone in near proximity about the progress of their working group is an infectious disease that ICANN is worried about being blamed for. The possibilities are endless...
On Apr 27, 2022, at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf <https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf> Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed <https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed>.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
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-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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As an additional data point, I will note that the IPC, which is chock full of American lawyers, was up in arms about this and held a special meeting just to discuss the waiver. (I did not attend as I’ve stepped back from IPC while on the ALAC.) My understanding of the ultimate conclusion of that meeting was to live with the waiver and not try to fight it. I’ll need to see what the reasoning is. But I assume that if IPC thought it was worth making a stink about, they would have done so. This should not dissuade us from discussing the waiver — it’s just worth knowing. Greg On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:54 PM Antony Van Couvering via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
We are litigious, certainly, but it is requirements like these that make us so.
Suspicious minds might wonder if one of the staff or directors has a known STD and a rampant libido and ICANN legal is worried about being held responsible for a syphilis outbreak.
Or whether speaking in acronyms and boring everyone in near proximity about the progress of their working group is an infectious disease that ICANN is worried about being blamed for.
The possibilities are endless...
On Apr 27, 2022, at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:
*I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN *
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. *https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
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-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Thanks Greg And I agree with the IPC - it is extraordinary that ICANN would seek such a waiver. This should absolutely be on the table for discussion and someone from ICANN Org should explain why they are taking such an extraordinary step as seeking to legally deny all responsibility for ANY negligence on their part that could impact on attendees (even if totally unrelated to COVID). I’d rather attend by zoom than run the risk of being injured through negligence on the part of ICANN and have no legal avenue of recovery. I’d be much happier if the last phrase (even if arising from the negligence or fault) were omitted. It is that phrase that goes beyond what could be reasonably expected, given COVID. This is particularly true for ALAC, given that many, if not most, of the ALAC attendees would need to pay for any injury incurred - regardless of whether ICANN was negligent. Holly
On Apr 28, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Greg Shatan [ALAC] via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
As an additional data point, I will note that the IPC, which is chock full of American lawyers, was up in arms about this and held a special meeting just to discuss the waiver. (I did not attend as I’ve stepped back from IPC while on the ALAC.) My understanding of the ultimate conclusion of that meeting was to live with the waiver and not try to fight it. I’ll need to see what the reasoning is. But I assume that if IPC thought it was worth making a stink about, they would have done so. This should not dissuade us from discussing the waiver — it’s just worth knowing.
Greg
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:54 PM Antony Van Couvering via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: We are litigious, certainly, but it is requirements like these that make us so.
Suspicious minds might wonder if one of the staff or directors has a known STD and a rampant libido and ICANN legal is worried about being held responsible for a syphilis outbreak.
Or whether speaking in acronyms and boring everyone in near proximity about the progress of their working group is an infectious disease that ICANN is worried about being blamed for.
The possibilities are endless...
On Apr 27, 2022, at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN
This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.
I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.
Cheers, Roberto
On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf <https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf> Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed <https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed>.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large>
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-- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large>
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Interestingly, that language would be considered ridiculously unenforceable, here in the US but apparently is normal, under Dutch law Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.InnovatorsNetwork.org<http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org> Main: +1 (202) 827-7594 Direct: +1 (202) 420-7483 ________________________________ From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 4:47:25 PM To: Greg Shatan [ALAC] <gregshatanalac@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I Thanks Greg And I agree with the IPC - it is extraordinary that ICANN would seek such a waiver. This should absolutely be on the table for discussion and someone from ICANN Org should explain why they are taking such an extraordinary step as seeking to legally deny all responsibility for ANY negligence on their part that could impact on attendees (even if totally unrelated to COVID). I’d rather attend by zoom than run the risk of being injured through negligence on the part of ICANN and have no legal avenue of recovery. I’d be much happier if the last phrase (even if arising from the negligence or fault) were omitted. It is that phrase that goes beyond what could be reasonably expected, given COVID. This is particularly true for ALAC, given that many, if not most, of the ALAC attendees would need to pay for any injury incurred - regardless of whether ICANN was negligent. Holly On Apr 28, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Greg Shatan [ALAC] via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: As an additional data point, I will note that the IPC, which is chock full of American lawyers, was up in arms about this and held a special meeting just to discuss the waiver. (I did not attend as I’ve stepped back from IPC while on the ALAC.) My understanding of the ultimate conclusion of that meeting was to live with the waiver and not try to fight it. I’ll need to see what the reasoning is. But I assume that if IPC thought it was worth making a stink about, they would have done so. This should not dissuade us from discussing the waiver — it’s just worth knowing. Greg On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:54 PM Antony Van Couvering via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: We are litigious, certainly, but it is requirements like these that make us so. Suspicious minds might wonder if one of the staff or directors has a known STD and a rampant libido and ICANN legal is worried about being held responsible for a syphilis outbreak. Or whether speaking in acronyms and boring everyone in near proximity about the progress of their working group is an infectious disease that ICANN is worried about being blamed for. The possibilities are endless... On Apr 27, 2022, at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanks Marita. One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me: I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing. I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague. Cheers, Roberto On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed. Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... . It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this. Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- "The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple". Psalms 119:130 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Given the nuisances of this so-called waiver, can we as the community send a feedback to ICANN even at this point, especially the Board and see how it does as a matter of protest? ___________________ REMMY NWEKE, *mNUJ, mNGE, mGOCOP* Lead Consulting Strategist/Group Executive Editor, *ITREALMS Media* group [*Multiple-award winning medium*] (ITREALMS <http://www.itrealms.com.ng/>, DigitalSENSE Business Magazine <http://www.digitalsenseafrica.com.ng/businessnews>; NaijaAgroNet <http://www.naijaagronet.com.ng/>) No. 36 Afariogun Street, Oshodi-Lagos M: 234-8033592762, 8023122558, T: @ITRealms <http://www.twitter.com/ITRealms> @DigitalSENSEng 2022 *Nigeria DigitalSENSE Forum on IG4D*, Thursday June 9 <https://www.itrealms.com.ng/> 2022 *ITREALMS* e-Waste Dialogue, Thursday December 8 <https://www.itrealms.com.ng/> @Welcome Center Hotels, Int'l Airport Road, Lagos-Nigeria <http://welcomecentrehotels.com/> Former Vice President, African Civil Society on Information Society (ACSIS) ______________________________________________________________ *Confidentiality Notice:* The information in this document and attachments are confidential and may also be privileged information. It is intended only for the use of the named recipient. Remmy Nweke does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately, then delete this document and do not disclose the contents of this document to any other person, nor make any copies. Violators may face court persecution. On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:09 PM Marita Moll via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf
Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.
Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. *https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20... <https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-20...> .
It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings. I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver. I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.
Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
participants (16)
-
Antony Van Couvering -
Barrack Otieno -
Glenn McKnight -
Greg Shatan [ALAC] -
Holly Raiche -
John More -
Jonathan Zuck -
mail＠christopherwilkinson.eu -
Marita Moll -
Maureen Hilyard -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Remmy Nweke -
Roberto Gaetano -
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro -
SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. -
Vanda Scartezini