A brexit problem that I heard about
Hello, Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case. One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please? Sivasubramanian M
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct. The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion. Best, Theo Geurts sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Thx! Javier Rúa-Jovet +1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Aug 15, 2018, at 4:58 AM, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello, Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case. One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please? Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Good afternoon: Naturally, I am following this question closely. At present, the Brexit debate is so finely balanced that it is difficult to foresee the outcome. It is still quite possible that either the outcome will be sufficiently close to the EEA precedent that UK .eu registrants will be protected, or that the growing realisation of the economic costs of Brexit will lead to no Brexit at all. Should the worst befall, the loss of 300k. registrations would be a modest part of the overall costs to the British public and economy. Meanwhile EURid and the EU Commission will need to address some very difficult issues, particularly for those UK registrants who have developed a significant business on the basis of their .eu domain. Not least the protection of their intellectual property and good will. Regards CW
El 15 de agosto de 2018 a las 11:24 Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> escribió:
Thx!
Javier Rúa-Jovet
+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Aug 15, 2018, at 4:58 AM, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl > wrote:
> > The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
> > > Hello,
> >
> > > Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet
> >
> > > domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account
> >
> > > which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it
> >
> > > will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations
> >
> > > as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him
> >
> > > to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of
> >
> > > complications in any case.
> >
> > > One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in
> >
> > > some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative
> >
> > > solutions please?
> >
> > > Sivasubramanian M
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> >
> > > At-Large mailing list
> >
> > > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >
> > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
> >
> > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
> > _______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
>
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Very interesting stuff, Christopher. Thanks for the insights. Javier Rúa-Jovet +1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:37 AM, mail@christopherwilkinson.eu CW <mail@christopherwilkinson.eu> wrote:
Good afternoon:
Naturally, I am following this question closely.
At present, the Brexit debate is so finely balanced that it is difficult to foresee the outcome.
It is still quite possible that either the outcome will be sufficiently close to the EEA precedent that UK .eu registrants will be protected, or that the growing realisation of the economic costs of Brexit will lead to no Brexit at all.
Should the worst befall, the loss of 300k. registrations would be a modest part of the overall costs to the British public and economy.
Meanwhile EURid and the EU Commission will need to address some very difficult issues, particularly for those UK registrants who have developed a significant business on the basis of their .eu domain. Not least the protection of their intellectual property and good will.
Regards
CW
El 15 de agosto de 2018 a las 11:24 Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> escribió:
Thx!
Javier Rúa-Jovet
+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Aug 15, 2018, at 4:58 AM, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello, Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case. One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please? Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Thanks for your thoughts Christopher I do believe the final cost of Brexit will make UK to postpone the decision forever ... Kisses Vanda Scartezini Sent from my iPhone Sorry for typos On Aug 15, 2018, at 11:38 AM, mail@christopherwilkinson.eu<mailto:mail@christopherwilkinson.eu> CW <mail@christopherwilkinson.eu<mailto:mail@christopherwilkinson.eu>> wrote: Good afternoon: Naturally, I am following this question closely. At present, the Brexit debate is so finely balanced that it is difficult to foresee the outcome. It is still quite possible that either the outcome will be sufficiently close to the EEA precedent that UK .eu registrants will be protected, or that the growing realisation of the economic costs of Brexit will lead to no Brexit at all. Should the worst befall, the loss of 300k. registrations would be a modest part of the overall costs to the British public and economy. Meanwhile EURid and the EU Commission will need to address some very difficult issues, particularly for those UK registrants who have developed a significant business on the basis of their .eu domain. Not least the protection of their intellectual property and good will. Regards CW El 15 de agosto de 2018 a las 11:24 Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com<mailto:javrua@gmail.com>> escribió: Thx! Javier Rúa-Jovet +1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua On Aug 15, 2018, at 4:58 AM, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote: The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct. The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion. Best, Theo Geurts sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM: Hello, Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case. One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please? Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
As is so often the case, being inside the ICANN bubble it's easy to lose track of how insignificant domains increasingly are in big picture. Should a hard Brexit be reality, the loss of .eu domains will be barely a blip on anyone's radar next to the disruptions to healthcare, agriculture, air travel and the financial sector. UK-based companies using a ,eu domain, by definition, depend on European identification; a no-deal crash-out in Mark would lead to the disruption of far worse than Internet domains. One's web presence can be recovered through search engines and social media, and the situation will be understood and forgiven by consumers. OTOH, actually being able to trade with Europeans once they find you again would likely be far more difficult. In any case, for UK companies doing serious trade with the EU there will no doubt be workarounds. For most it will be worthwhile to maintain some kind of business presence on the Continent as the cost of doing business post-Brexit; workarounds are even being proposed for people <https://medium.com/e-residency-blog/how-to-register-a-eu-domain-from-anywher...> . Should a deal be struck or Brexit reversed -- both possible but far from assured -- it will be for far loftier reasons than to protect British .eu registrants. Cheers, - Evan On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 21:54, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@scartezini.org> wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts Christopher I do believe the final cost of Brexit will make UK to postpone the decision forever ... Kisses
Vanda Scartezini Sent from my iPhone Sorry for typos
On Aug 15, 2018, at 11:38 AM, mail@christopherwilkinson.eu CW < mail@christopherwilkinson.eu> wrote:
Good afternoon:
Naturally, I am following this question closely.
At present, the Brexit debate is so finely balanced that it is difficult to foresee the outcome.
It is still quite possible that either the outcome will be sufficiently close to the EEA precedent that UK .eu registrants will be protected, or that the growing realisation of the economic costs of Brexit will lead to no Brexit at all.
Should the worst befall, the loss of 300k. registrations would be a modest part of the overall costs to the British public and economy.
Meanwhile EURid and the EU Commission will need to address some very difficult issues, particularly for those UK registrants who have developed a significant business on the basis of their .eu domain. Not least the protection of their intellectual property and good will.
Regards
CW
El 15 de agosto de 2018 a las 11:24 Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> escribió:
Thx!
Javier Rúa-Jovet
+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Aug 15, 2018, at 4:58 AM, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet
domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account
which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it
will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations
as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him
to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of
complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in
some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative
solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M
_______________________________________________
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-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
Dear Theo Geurts, On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:28 PM gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
One alternative solution that would mitigate the hardships for at least a few of the 300k .EU (and the registrants other gTLD and ccTLD registries that may in future decide for one compelling reason or another to drop some domains) could arise from the Domain management services (which in this case, in this or expanded technical capacity, is Google) who could make it possible for these users to migrate to another domain name of their choice. Sivasubramanian M
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Sorry, but what on earth do you mean? If I have all my headed paper, business cards etc etc using a .eu domain name and I move to another domain extension I lose all that *if* the .eu domain name is either deleted, suspended or simply registered to someone else. It’s very different to a simple rebranding exercise where you retain control of the original domain name and can setup pointers, redirects etc., For example we used to use blacknight.ie for our website and email. We don’t anymore, but you’d never notice as we still retain control of the domain. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday 15 August 2018 at 10:36 To: gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> Cc: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Dear Theo Geurts, On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:28 PM gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote: The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct. One alternative solution that would mitigate the hardships for at least a few of the 300k .EU (and the registrants other gTLD and ccTLD registries that may in future decide for one compelling reason or another to drop some domains) could arise from the Domain management services (which in this case, in this or expanded technical capacity, is Google) who could make it possible for these users to migrate to another domain name of their choice. Sivasubramanian M The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion. Best, Theo Geurts sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 5:27 PM Michele Neylon - Blacknight < michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Sorry, but what on earth do you mean?
If I have all my headed paper, business cards etc etc using a .eu domain name and I move to another domain extension I lose all that **if** the .eu domain name is either deleted, suspended or simply registered to someone else.
It’s very different to a simple rebranding exercise where you retain control of the original domain name and can setup pointers, redirects etc.,
True. But in the event that control over the domain name goes away due to EXTERNAL factors beyond control, (as in this case the brexit related .EU directive coming into force), the alternative to the domain registering finding a c/o street address (which may be illegal) or actually maintaining a street presence (which may not be legally feasible or not affordable) the least harmful alternative (or relief) would be for the hosting environment to allow the registrant to migrate his account and all his content to a new domain of his own choice. At present (possibly due to some limitations or safeguards he is unable to use a new non EU domain to preserve his email account linked to the .EU domain name. Sivasubramanian M
For example we used to use blacknight.ie for our website and email. We don’t anymore, but you’d never notice as we still retain control of the domain.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> *Date: *Wednesday 15 August 2018 at 10:36 *To: *gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Cc: *At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Dear Theo Geurts,
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:28 PM gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
One alternative solution that would mitigate the hardships for at least a few of the 300k .EU (and the registrants other gTLD and ccTLD registries that may in future decide for one compelling reason or another to drop some domains) could arise from the Domain management services (which in this case, in this or expanded technical capacity, is Google) who could make it possible for these users to migrate to another domain name of their choice.
Sivasubramanian M
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
(typo) ... alternative to the domain RegistRANT .... On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 6:06 PM sivasubramanian muthusamy < 6.internet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 5:27 PM Michele Neylon - Blacknight < michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Sorry, but what on earth do you mean?
If I have all my headed paper, business cards etc etc using a .eu domain name and I move to another domain extension I lose all that **if** the .eu domain name is either deleted, suspended or simply registered to someone else.
It’s very different to a simple rebranding exercise where you retain control of the original domain name and can setup pointers, redirects etc.,
True. But in the event that control over the domain name goes away due to EXTERNAL factors beyond control, (as in this case the brexit related .EU directive coming into force), the alternative to the domain registering finding a c/o street address (which may be illegal) or actually maintaining a street presence (which may not be legally feasible or not affordable) the least harmful alternative (or relief) would be for the hosting environment to allow the registrant to migrate his account and all his content to a new domain of his own choice. At present (possibly due to some limitations or safeguards he is unable to use a new non EU domain to preserve his email account linked to the .EU domain name.
Sivasubramanian M
For example we used to use blacknight.ie for our website and email. We don’t anymore, but you’d never notice as we still retain control of the domain.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> *Date: *Wednesday 15 August 2018 at 10:36 *To: *gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Cc: *At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Dear Theo Geurts,
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:28 PM gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
One alternative solution that would mitigate the hardships for at least a few of the 300k .EU (and the registrants other gTLD and ccTLD registries that may in future decide for one compelling reason or another to drop some domains) could arise from the Domain management services (which in this case, in this or expanded technical capacity, is Google) who could make it possible for these users to migrate to another domain name of their choice.
Sivasubramanian M
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
That does not scale. If you’ve got 1 or 2 users on a domain name it’s pretty easily (technically) to move them to a new domain. It’s a very different when you have large numbers of users AND complex systems in play. If you retain the “original” domain name making a change isn’t “as painful”, but if the domain literally vanishes or, which is a lot more worrying, is taken over by someone else then stuff will break. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> Date: Friday 17 August 2018 at 13:37 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> Cc: gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 5:27 PM Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Sorry, but what on earth do you mean? If I have all my headed paper, business cards etc etc using a .eu domain name and I move to another domain extension I lose all that *if* the .eu domain name is either deleted, suspended or simply registered to someone else. It’s very different to a simple rebranding exercise where you retain control of the original domain name and can setup pointers, redirects etc., True. But in the event that control over the domain name goes away due to EXTERNAL factors beyond control, (as in this case the brexit related .EU directive coming into force), the alternative to the domain registering finding a c/o street address (which may be illegal) or actually maintaining a street presence (which may not be legally feasible or not affordable) the least harmful alternative (or relief) would be for the hosting environment to allow the registrant to migrate his account and all his content to a new domain of his own choice. At present (possibly due to some limitations or safeguards he is unable to use a new non EU domain to preserve his email account linked to the .EU domain name. Sivasubramanian M For example we used to use blacknight.ie<http://blacknight.ie> for our website and email. We don’t anymore, but you’d never notice as we still retain control of the domain. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com<mailto:6.internet@gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 15 August 2018 at 10:36 To: gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> Cc: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Dear Theo Geurts, On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:28 PM gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote: The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct. One alternative solution that would mitigate the hardships for at least a few of the 300k .EU (and the registrants other gTLD and ccTLD registries that may in future decide for one compelling reason or another to drop some domains) could arise from the Domain management services (which in this case, in this or expanded technical capacity, is Google) who could make it possible for these users to migrate to another domain name of their choice. Sivasubramanian M The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion. Best, Theo Geurts sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Dear Michelle On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:10 PM Michele Neylon - Blacknight < michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
That does not scale.
If you’ve got 1 or 2 users on a domain name it’s pretty easily (technically) to move them to a new domain.
It’s a very different when you have large numbers of users AND complex systems in play.
Understood. This was a limited question, originates from one UK user who appears to have one domain name with his family members as users.
If you retain the “original” domain name making a change isn’t “as painful”, but if the domain literally vanishes or, which is a lot more worrying, is taken over by someone else then stuff will break.
In this case the user has one year to migrate to another domain. This use case concerns a scenario where the 'legacy' email service provider does not allow the account to migrate to a new domain (probably for valid reasons) Thank you.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> *Date: *Friday 17 August 2018 at 13:37 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> *Cc: *gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl>, At-Large Worldwide < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 5:27 PM Michele Neylon - Blacknight < michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Sorry, but what on earth do you mean?
If I have all my headed paper, business cards etc etc using a .eu domain name and I move to another domain extension I lose all that **if** the .eu domain name is either deleted, suspended or simply registered to someone else.
It’s very different to a simple rebranding exercise where you retain control of the original domain name and can setup pointers, redirects etc.,
True. But in the event that control over the domain name goes away due to EXTERNAL factors beyond control, (as in this case the brexit related .EU directive coming into force), the alternative to the domain registering finding a c/o street address (which may be illegal) or actually maintaining a street presence (which may not be legally feasible or not affordable) the least harmful alternative (or relief) would be for the hosting environment to allow the registrant to migrate his account and all his content to a new domain of his own choice. At present (possibly due to some limitations or safeguards he is unable to use a new non EU domain to preserve his email account linked to the .EU domain name.
Sivasubramanian M
For example we used to use blacknight.ie for our website and email. We don’t anymore, but you’d never notice as we still retain control of the domain.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> *Date: *Wednesday 15 August 2018 at 10:36 *To: *gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Cc: *At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Dear Theo Geurts,
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:28 PM gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The alternatives are very limited as privacy or proxy registrations are a violation of the registry agreement if I am correct.
One alternative solution that would mitigate the hardships for at least a few of the 300k .EU (and the registrants other gTLD and ccTLD registries that may in future decide for one compelling reason or another to drop some domains) could arise from the Domain management services (which in this case, in this or expanded technical capacity, is Google) who could make it possible for these users to migrate to another domain name of their choice.
Sivasubramanian M
The latest news and info can be located here; https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ We are talking around 300k .EU registrations for possible deletion.
Best,
Theo Geurts
sivasubramanian muthusamy schreef op 2018-08-15 02:31 AM:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs. The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress. Danko From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM To: bzs@theworld.com Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com <mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Danko is correct, in my opinion, Eurid is now part of a political game between the UK and the EU. Theo Geurts Danko Jevtović schreef op 2018-08-20 01:53 PM:
I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs.
The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress.
Danko
FROM: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> ON BEHALF OF Roberto Gaetano SENT: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM TO: bzs@theworld.com CC: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto
On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Ok I'll say it...
How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005?
I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?)
Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs.
But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that?
What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."?
And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument.
If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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It is and it is not our problem to get into it. I guess it will eventually transpire into our thoughts. But we should remain objective and look at the interest of the society at large.
On Aug 20, 2018, at 17:16, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Danko is correct, in my opinion, Eurid is now part of a political game between the UK and the EU.
Theo Geurts
Danko Jevtović schreef op 2018-08-20 01:53 PM:
I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs. The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress. Danko FROM: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> ON BEHALF OF Roberto Gaetano SENT: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM TO: bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> CC: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto
On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com <mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com <http://www.theworld.com/> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 09:27, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Danko is correct, in my opinion, Eurid is now part of a political game between the UK and the EU.
Now? When was it ever not? I don't recall EURID suddenly changing the requirements to mess with the Brits. Access to an .eu domain has *always* been literally, a "member benefit" of residents of countries inside the EU. In fact, IIRC the whole publicity behind getting .eu domains was to publicize one's integration. Next to the significant potential Brexit damage to entire industries, companies, supply chains and business models, complaints about having to redo corporate letterhead due to a TLD switch are really rather minor in the big picture. So long as we still have search engines, telephones and the post office, switching domains is at most a significant nuisance. Perhaps there is a business opportunity here for registrars who offer to soften the blows for UK-based .eu registrants, through assistance with establishing sufficient EU presence, contingency planning, or a reduced-fee eased move to a more-appropriate TLD. Isn't this kind of service the very reason one would want to deal through a registrar rather than directly with a registry? - Evan
Thanks Evan, interesting points. JJ. Le 20 août 2018 à 21:01, à 21:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> a écrit:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 09:27, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Danko is correct, in my opinion, Eurid is now part of a political game between the UK and the EU.
Now? When was it ever not?
I don't recall EURID suddenly changing the requirements to mess with the Brits. Access to an .eu domain has *always* been literally, a "member benefit" of residents of countries inside the EU. In fact, IIRC the whole publicity behind getting .eu domains was to publicize one's integration.
Next to the significant potential Brexit damage to entire industries, companies, supply chains and business models, complaints about having to redo corporate letterhead due to a TLD switch are really rather minor in the big picture. So long as we still have search engines, telephones and the post office, switching domains is at most a significant nuisance.
Perhaps there is a business opportunity here for registrars who offer to soften the blows for UK-based .eu registrants, through assistance with establishing sufficient EU presence, contingency planning, or a reduced-fee eased move to a more-appropriate TLD. Isn't this kind of service the very reason one would want to deal through a registrar rather than directly with a registry?
- Evan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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A very sensible proposition . There is now an opportunity for registrars to expand into areas which otherwise was not even remotely considered part of the package. - Anupam On Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:31 AM Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 09:27, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Danko is correct, in my opinion, Eurid is now part of a political game between the UK and the EU.
Now? When was it ever not?
I don't recall EURID suddenly changing the requirements to mess with the Brits. Access to an .eu domain has *always* been literally, a "member benefit" of residents of countries inside the EU. In fact, IIRC the whole publicity behind getting .eu domains was to publicize one's integration.
Next to the significant potential Brexit damage to entire industries, companies, supply chains and business models, complaints about having to redo corporate letterhead due to a TLD switch are really rather minor in the big picture. So long as we still have search engines, telephones and the post office, switching domains is at most a significant nuisance.
Perhaps there is a business opportunity here for registrars who offer to soften the blows for UK-based .eu registrants, through assistance with establishing sufficient EU presence, contingency planning, or a reduced-fee eased move to a more-appropriate TLD. Isn't this kind of service the very reason one would want to deal through a registrar rather than directly with a registry?
- Evan
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Danko, About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator. I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already. A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think. Cheers, Roberto On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs<mailto:danko@jevtovic.rs>> wrote: I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs. The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress. Danko From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM To: bzs@theworld.com<mailto:bzs@theworld.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com<mailto:bzs@theworld.com> wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com<mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com<http://www.theworld.com/> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
The change isn’t New Year’s eve – it’d be March 2019 The issue is that the EC isn’t engaging constructively with registrars or our clients, so it’s a total mess. Allowing existing registrants to keep their .eu domains would be the sanest way forward, but the EC doesn’t seem to be willing to discuss it. And they’ve also started some insane plan about expanding who can qualify for a .eu domain name without any real thought into how that can be made a reality. Oh the fun Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Monday 20 August 2018 at 14:35 To: Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> Cc: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Danko, About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator. I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already. A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think. Cheers, Roberto On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs<mailto:danko@jevtovic.rs>> wrote: I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs. The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress. Danko From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM To: bzs@theworld.com<mailto:bzs@theworld.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com<mailto:bzs@theworld.com> wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com<mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com<http://www.theworld.com/> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Dear Colleagues, I’ve been following this thread for some time, and would like to put in a few upstream remarks, not focusing on the DNS aspect, but rather on the wider consequences of Brexit: - Brexit is not a negotiation; it is a decision by the government of one member state, acting upon the result of a national referendum, to serve notice to the European Union its decision to withdraw from the EU. Talking about ‘’Brexit negotiations’’ is misleading: there are rules for joining the EU, and for leaving it (article 50 of the Treaty). The current interaction between the UK and the European Commission (representing the other 27 members) is based not on some ''Art of The Deal'', but on international treaties which were freely entered into by all the member states when they joined, including the UK (1973 Treaty of Accession and subsequent binding treaties). - The UK’s decision to withdraw from the EU involves treaty obligations and carries a swathe of consequences (remaining budget contributions, trade with third countries, etc.). The DNS aspects, which have been dealt with at length in this thread, are not imposed unilaterally by the EU, but are simply the technical consequences of the UK decision. Because of this fundamental fact, grounded in international law, any arrangement affecting Internet usage can only be worked out at a technical level, and is not amenable to some sort of political ‘’deal’’ between the UK and the EU. - This is not to say that we should dismiss the DNS issues as unimportant. But the right way to go about that is not to incriminate EU directives (all of which, by the way, had to be accepted by London in order to be implemented), but on the premise that desirable outcomes are to be worked out not IN SPITE OF Brexit, but by looking its reality in the face, and working on from there. EURID, the European Commission, the European Council will not -in fact, cannot- do otherwise. - In the UK there seems to be increasing awareness of the high cost of the UK leaving the EU, https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/18/rethink-of-brexit-vote-may-... . A reversal of Brexit seems unlikely, but with that slim possibility in mind, IMHO it would be the prime duty of those in charge of Internet and DNS matters in the UK to keep national procedures and regulations as widely compatible as possible with EU guidelines and best practices. Just in case. Jean-Jacques. Le 20 août 2018 à 16:21:31, Michele Neylon - Blacknight (michele@blacknight.com) a écrit: The change isn’t New Year’s eve – it’d be March 2019 The issue is that the EC isn’t engaging constructively with registrars or our clients, so it’s a total mess. Allowing existing registrants to keep their .eu domains would be the sanest way forward, but the EC doesn’t seem to be willing to discuss it. And they’ve also started some insane plan about expanding who can qualify for a .eu domain name without any real thought into how that can be made a reality. Oh the fun Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Monday 20 August 2018 at 14:35 To: Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> Cc: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Danko, About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator. I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already. A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think. Cheers, Roberto On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> wrote: I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs. The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress. Danko From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM To: bzs@theworld.com Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 7:57 PM Jean-Jacques Subrenat <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I’ve been following this thread for some time, and would like to put in a few upstream remarks, not focusing on the DNS aspect, but rather on the wider consequences of Brexit:
- Brexit is not a negotiation; it is a decision by the government of one member state, acting upon the result of a national referendum, to serve notice to the European Union its decision to withdraw from the EU. Talking about ‘’Brexit negotiations’’ is misleading: there are rules for joining the EU, and for leaving it (article 50 of the Treaty). The current interaction between the UK and the European Commission (representing the other 27 members) is based not on some ''Art of The Deal'', but on international treaties which were freely entered into by all the member states when they joined, including the UK (1973 Treaty of Accession and subsequent binding treaties).
- The UK’s decision to withdraw from the EU involves treaty obligations and carries a swathe of consequences (remaining budget contributions, trade with third countries, etc.). The DNS aspects, which have been dealt with at length in this thread, are not imposed unilaterally by the EU, but are simply the technical consequences of the UK decision. Because of this fundamental fact, grounded in international law, any arrangement affecting Internet usage can only be worked out at a technical level, and is not amenable to some sort of political ‘’deal’’ between the UK and the EU.
- This is not to say that we should dismiss the DNS issues as unimportant. But the right way to go about that is not to incriminate EU directives (all of which, by the way, had to be accepted by London in order to be implemented), but on the premise that desirable outcomes are to be worked out not IN SPITE OF Brexit, but by looking its reality in the face, and working on from there. EURID, the European Commission, the European Council will not -in fact, cannot- do otherwise.
- In the UK there seems to be increasing awareness of the high cost of the UK leaving the EU
(as an outsider) The people voted to leave, but at the implementation phase practical difficulties and intricacies surface, in effect prolonging the process of implementation. In view of the high cost for UK (and for the EU which may at some point of time adopt the posture that the UK also pays for the European costs of brexit) it might become demonstrably unwise for the UK Government to persist and implement brexit without seeking another referendum (this time with a ban on tricky banners on buses)
, https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/18/rethink-of-brexit-vote-may-... . A reversal of Brexit seems unlikely
but not impossible. Sivasubramanian M
, but with that slim possibility in mind, IMHO it would be the prime duty of those in charge of Internet and DNS matters in the UK to keep national procedures and regulations as widely compatible as possible with EU guidelines and best practices. Just in case.
Jean-Jacques.
Le 20 août 2018 à 16:21:31, Michele Neylon - Blacknight ( michele@blacknight.com) a écrit:
The change isn’t New Year’s eve – it’d be March 2019
The issue is that the EC isn’t engaging constructively with registrars or our clients, so it’s a total mess.
Allowing existing registrants to keep their .eu domains would be the sanest way forward, but the EC doesn’t seem to be willing to discuss it.
And they’ve also started some insane plan about expanding who can qualify for a .eu domain name without any real thought into how that can be made a reality.
Oh the fun
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Date: *Monday 20 August 2018 at 14:35 *To: *Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> *Cc: *At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Danko,
About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator.
I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already.
A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> wrote:
I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs.
The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress.
Danko
*From:* At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Roberto Gaetano *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM *To:* bzs@theworld.com *Cc:* At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto
On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Ok I'll say it...
How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005?
I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?)
Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs.
But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that?
What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."?
And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument.
If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com <http://www.theworld.com/> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Dear Michele, I never imagined I'd have to defend a registry in a discussion with you. :-) EuRID engaged with Registrars and clients in the UK even *before* the Brexit Referendum so I cannot agree that it is not engaging constructively. The rules are clear: you need to be an entity with an address in the EU. https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ The majority vote in the UK has been to leave the EU. Blame the voters not EuRID that had clear rules that preceded the UK vote. Alternatively, open a subsidiary in an EU country and transfer the domain name to it. It is not that costly, especially if the domain name is so important. Kindest regards, Olivier On 20/08/2018 16:20, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
The change isn’t New Year’s eve – it’d be March 2019
The issue is that the EC isn’t engaging constructively with registrars or our clients, so it’s a total mess.
Allowing existing registrants to keep their .eu domains would be the sanest way forward, but the EC doesn’t seem to be willing to discuss it.
And they’ve also started some insane plan about expanding who can qualify for a .eu domain name without any real thought into how that can be made a reality.
Oh the fun
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Date: *Monday 20 August 2018 at 14:35 *To: *Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> *Cc: *At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Danko,
About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator.
I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already.
A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs <mailto:danko@jevtovic.rs>> wrote:
I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs.
The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress.
Danko
*From:* At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> *On Behalf Of *Roberto Gaetano *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM *To:* bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> *Cc:* At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto
On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> wrote:
Ok I'll say it...
How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005?
I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?)
Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs.
But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that?
What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."?
And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument.
If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com <mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com <http://www.theworld.com/> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org <http://atlarge.icann.org/>
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Olivier +1. JJ. Le 20 août 2018 à 17:22, à 17:22, "Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond" <ocl@gih.com> a écrit:
Dear Michele,
I never imagined I'd have to defend a registry in a discussion with you. :-) EuRID engaged with Registrars and clients in the UK even *before* the Brexit Referendum so I cannot agree that it is not engaging constructively. The rules are clear: you need to be an entity with an address in the EU. https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/
The majority vote in the UK has been to leave the EU. Blame the voters not EuRID that had clear rules that preceded the UK vote. Alternatively, open a subsidiary in an EU country and transfer the domain name to it. It is not that costly, especially if the domain name is so important. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 20/08/2018 16:20, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
The change isn’t New Year’s eve – it’d be March 2019
The issue is that the EC isn’t engaging constructively with
registrars
or our clients, so it’s a total mess.
Allowing existing registrants to keep their .eu domains would be the sanest way forward, but the EC doesn’t seem to be willing to discuss it.
And they’ve also started some insane plan about expanding who can qualify for a .eu domain name without any real thought into how that can be made a reality.
Oh the fun
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Date: *Monday 20 August 2018 at 14:35 *To: *Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> *Cc: *At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Danko,
About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator.
I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already.
A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs <mailto:danko@jevtovic.rs>> wrote:
I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs.
The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress.
Danko
*From:* At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> *On Behalf Of *Roberto Gaetano *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM *To:* bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> *Cc:* At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about
Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto
On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com <mailto:bzs@theworld.com> wrote:
Ok I'll say it...
How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005?
I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?)
Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs.
But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that?
What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."?
And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument.
If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com
<mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com
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1++ to Olivier Wolfgang
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> 20.08.18 17.22 Uhr >>> Dear Michele,
I never imagined I'd have to defend a registry in a discussion with you. :-) EuRID engaged with Registrars and clients in the UK even *before* the Brexit Referendum so I cannot agree that it is not engaging constructively. The rules are clear: you need to be an entity with an address in the EU. https://eurid.eu/en/register-a-eu-domain/brexit-notice/ The majority vote in the UK has been to leave the EU. Blame the voters not EuRID that had clear rules that preceded the UK vote. Alternatively, open a subsidiary in an EU country and transfer the domain name to it. It is not that costly, especially if the domain name is so important. Kindest regards, Olivier On 20/08/2018 16:20, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {<br> margin: 0.0cm;<br> font-size: 11.0pt;<br> font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;<br>}<br>a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {<br> color: blue;<br> text-decoration: underline;<br>}<br>a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {<br> color: purple;<br> text-decoration: underline;<br>}<br>p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0 {<br> margin-right: 0.0cm;<br> margin-left: 0.0cm;<br> font-size: 11.0pt;<br> font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;<br>}<br>span.apple-converted-space {<br>}<br>span.EmailStyle19 {<br> font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;<br> color: windowtext;<br>}<br>*.MsoChpDefault {<br> font-size: 10.0pt;<br>}<br>div.WordSection1 {<br> page: WordSection1;<br>}<br> The change isn’t New Year’s eve – it’d be March 2019 The issue is that the EC isn’t engaging constructively with registrars or our clients, so it’s a total mess. Allowing existing registrants to keep their .eu domains would be the sanest way forward, but the EC doesn’t seem to be willing to discuss it. And they’ve also started some insane plan about expanding who can qualify for a .eu domain name without any real thought into how that can be made a reality. Oh the fun Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Monday 20 August 2018 at 14:35 To: Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> Cc: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Danko, About EURID, I stand corrected, it is the EU who sets the rules. EURID only enforces them as operator. I fully agree with you, it is all part of the global package and nobody wants to start showing what the possible compromise points will be. The problems, from the operation’s point of view, is that in case of no compromise they have to do the job overnight on New Year’s Eve and that this will happen before the Brexit deadline, so even if a negotiation will be successful in 2019 the TLD changes could have been effective already. A big mess, where, as usual, politics dictates and common sense, once again, shows to be far less “common” than we think. Cheers, Roberto On 20.08.2018, at 13:53, Danko Jevtović <danko@jevtovic.rs> wrote: I understand that it is not up to EURID, but to EC (European Commission), that hold the contract with EURID to manage to TLDs. The problem seems to be that possible solution (grandfathering clause) cannot be discussed outside of the whole package of Brexit negotiations, effectively blocking any reasonable progress. Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:09 PM To: bzs@theworld.com Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] A brexit problem that I heard about Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com wrote: Ok I'll say it... How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005? I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?) Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs. But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that? What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."? And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument. If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
My point isn't so much whether anyone could or should stop them so much as whether anyone else should care when it goes badly. However "each TLD can decide its own rules" is not a phsyical law of the universe, it was (and is) a conscious policy decision. If this universe weren't so dominated by people with vested interests someone might use a word like "fraud" if words (or TLDs) have meaning at all. But clearly they don't. Be that as it may it's still difficult to get excited over people who participate in this and occasionally have, in their minds, less than ideal results. Oh the injustice! On August 20, 2018 at 11:09 roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com (Roberto Gaetano) wrote:
Hi Barry. You might have a point in principle. However the reality is that each TLD can decide its own rules, and therefore whether to be strict in terms of requirements - like for instance .bank - or loose - like for instance .com. .eu has chosen the first approach, and has all right to do so. Whether EURID is willing to make an exception for Brexit - based also on the consideration that, as far as I know, they do not make continuous checking about whether the resistant still complies with the requirements - or not, I don’t know. Apparently not. Cheers, Roberto
On 17.08.2018, at 19:31, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
Ok I'll say it...
How many of these affected *.EU domains were actually entities with some sort of EU charter or relationship as the TLD was approved for in 2005?
I realize it's naive to point out that .NET was for networking organizations and .ORG for not-for-profits etc. in a world where we have .XYZ and .FAIL (must they really be FAILures?)
Ok that ship has sailed because no one wanted to enforce it as it would interfere with maximazing domain sales in those TLDs.
But are we really supposed to get lathered up about those who now got burned flouting all that?
What promise do those affected actually expect to be upheld? Chapter and verse not "well, we assumed..."?
And, no, marching out one or two bona-fide examples doesn't quite rise to a counter argument.
If there were only one or two or ten I'll guess they could be handled since they would have always had a legitimae reason to represent themselves with a .EU domain which one would hope would allow them some explicit accommodation.
-- -Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http:// www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo* _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
Dear Siva, no alternative solutions to my understanding. Registering at an EU postal address would be a small price to pay for anyone needing to keep their .EU domain for cost reasons. Kindest regards, Olivier On 15/08/2018 02:31, sivasubramanian muthusamy wrote:
Hello,
Someone who is a UK citizen some years ago registered a .EU internet domain name. This happens to be linked to a legacy Google account which his family uses. The domain Registry has now advised that it will be terminating .EU domains for UK individuals and organisations as early as next year. The legacy Google account will not permit him to change the domain name, and doing so would create a whole range of complications in any case.
One solution is to maintain business or residential presence in EU in some manner ifor the sake of the domain. Is there lany alternative solutions please?
Sivasubramanian M
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participants (17)
-
Anupam Agrawal -
bzs＠theworld.com -
Danko Jevtović -
Evan Leibovitch -
gtheo -
Javier Rua -
Jean-Jacques Subrenat -
JJS
-
Kris Seeburn -
mail＠christopherwilkinson.eu CW -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond -
Roberto Gaetano -
Sivasubramanian M -
sivasubramanian muthusamy
-
Vanda Scartezini -
Wolfgang Kleinwächter