Proposal of the ALAC Chair on Code of Conduct Enforcement
I'm extremely disappointed by the Proposal of the ALAC Chair on Code of Conduct Enforcement -- I don't think I have ever seen a more milquetoast approach. So here's a counter-proposal: Upon the Chair's determination that there has been a Code of Code violation, the Chair will immediately impose upon the violator a minimum six-month suspension of posting rights. The Chair's initial proposal may be found here: https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?al_alac_cc_0308_1_5_proposal_of_the_chai... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Agreed. If there's a disruptive person on a mailing list simply ban them. I don't see why you have to make it into a bureaucratic mess -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
I agree with Michele. The Chair has broad discretion to manage the dialogue in way that maximizes productivity and minimizes disruption and waste. Bret On Mar 11, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
Agreed.
If there’s a disruptive person on a mailing list simply ban them. I don’t see why you have to make it into a bureaucratic mess
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
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I agree with Michele. The Chair has broad discretion to manage the dialogue in way that maximizes productivity and minimizes disruption and waste.
There's a lot of experience on a lot of other lists to support this position. If there is a complex process to deal with disruptive people, you can expect its targets to compound and prolong the disruption and by arguing and niggling about every detail. We're all big boys and girls here, it's not hard to act like one, and there is no reason at all to waste yet more time with people who don't. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.
John Levine wrote:
There's a lot of experience on a lot of other lists to support this position. If there is a complex process to deal with disruptive people, you can expect its targets to compound and prolong the disruption and by arguing and niggling about every detail.
John is exactly right. Instituting such a process will increase the noise and traffic rather than reduce it. The chair has the ability to take the necessary measures at this time. If the ALAC disapproves and/or wishes to redirect the Chair to act otherwise, that can be taken up at the next meeting. Cheryl, you seem to me to have reasonably broad support to make some discretionary judgments that don't require a range of new formalities. For obvious reasons I don't expect such consent to be unanimous. ;-) - Evan
John Levine wrote:
There's a lot of experience on a lot of other lists to support this position. If there is a complex process to deal with disruptive people, you can expect its targets to compound and prolong the disruption and by arguing and niggling about every detail.
And I would say with a certain degree of confidence that it is definitely a case of not feeding the trolls :)
We're all big boys and girls here, it's not hard to act like one, and there is no reason at all to waste yet more time with people who don't.
Exactly my thoughts I'm on a lot of mailing lists for different topics and with very different demographics. Most are self-moderating to a point, but when push comes to shove dropping someone from a list when they've only been disruptive won't come as a surprise to them. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Tel. 1850 929 929 Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Michele and all, I am sorry to read your response as name calling is a demonstration of ill breading, bad manners, and in no way makes of a good argument of any sort. Michele Neylon wrote:
John Levine wrote:
There's a lot of experience on a lot of other lists to support this position. If there is a complex process to deal with disruptive people, you can expect its targets to compound and prolong the disruption and by arguing and niggling about every detail.
And I would say with a certain degree of confidence that it is definitely a case of not feeding the trolls :)
We're all big boys and girls here, it's not hard to act like one, and there is no reason at all to waste yet more time with people who don't.
Exactly my thoughts
I'm on a lot of mailing lists for different topics and with very different demographics. Most are self-moderating to a point, but when push comes to shove dropping someone from a list when they've only been disruptive won't come as a surprise to them.
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Tel. 1850 929 929 Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
At 17:50 11/03/2008, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
Content-Language: en Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_C3FC68CA2B183micheleblacknightie_; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-428E52CB
Agreed.
If there's a disruptive person on a mailing list simply ban them. I don't see why you have to make it into a bureaucratic mess
Because I think this mail of yours is disruptive and non-democratic. Would you accept to be banned for six months without the possibility to object? I guess not. So, this has to be organised. Drum justice is not good for mailing lists. Cheers! jfc
Danny and all, I disagree with your proposal and/or suggestion. Such a suggestion although may be a personal relief of some level of personal frustration, is clearly in direct violation of US statute, UN best practices, and incompatible with open, transparent and accountable discourse, debate, and idea sharing that has been a stalwart of the Internet sense nearly, it's conception. My questions are: Where are these "Codes of Conduct" posted on the ALAC web site? Who determines what is and what is not "inappropriate email"? What are the criterion for what is and what is not "inappropriate email"? Do ALAC members have the what would seem to be reasonable, the ability to vote on each of these proposed "Rules" for a code of conduct? If not, why not? Do not any proposed "Rules" governing a "Code of Conduct" on posting to ALAC mailing lists/WG-lists, ect., need to meet the MOU and freedom of speech doctrine globally accepted? If not, why not? Danny Younger wrote:
I'm extremely disappointed by the Proposal of the ALAC Chair on Code of Conduct Enforcement -- I don't think I have ever seen a more milquetoast approach.
So here's a counter-proposal:
Upon the Chair's determination that there has been a Code of Code violation, the Chair will immediately impose upon the violator a minimum six-month suspension of posting rights.
The Chair's initial proposal may be found here: https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?al_alac_cc_0308_1_5_proposal_of_the_chai...
____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
ALAC is not the UN, nor the US, what are you talking about? On 12/03/2008, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Danny and all,
I disagree with your proposal and/or suggestion. Such a suggestion although may be a personal relief of some level of personal frustration, is clearly in direct violation of US statute, UN best practices, and incompatible with open, transparent and accountable discourse, debate, and idea sharing that has been a stalwart of the Internet sense nearly, it's conception.
My questions are:
Where are these "Codes of Conduct" posted on the ALAC web site? Who determines what is and what is not "inappropriate email"? What are the criterion for what is and what is not "inappropriate email"? Do ALAC members have the what would seem to be reasonable, the ability to vote on each of these proposed "Rules" for a code of conduct? If not, why not? Do not any proposed "Rules" governing a "Code of Conduct" on posting to ALAC mailing lists/WG-lists, ect., need to meet the MOU and freedom of speech doctrine globally accepted? If not, why not?
Danny Younger wrote:
I'm extremely disappointed by the Proposal of the ALAC Chair on Code of Conduct Enforcement -- I don't think I have ever seen a more milquetoast approach.
So here's a counter-proposal:
Upon the Chair's determination that there has been a Code of Code violation, the Chair will immediately impose upon the violator a minimum six-month suspension of posting rights.
The Chair's initial proposal may be found here:
https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?al_alac_cc_0308_1_5_proposal_of_the_chai...
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Regards,
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln
"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
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participants (9)
-
Bret Fausett -
Danny Younger -
Evan Leibovitch -
Franck Martin -
Jeffrey A. Williams -
JFC Morfin -
John Levine -
Michele Neylon -
Michele Neylon :: Blacknight