On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer.

Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway. Julf

While I support this environmentally friendly and economically feasible approach, I'm concerned about representative participation: as AtLarge, should we not express concern for those with limited Internet access, naturally disadvantaged when it comes to online meetings? Thank you for this discussion, peaceful holidays to those celebrating, Joanna W dniu 10.04.2020 o 15:31, Roberto Gaetano pisze:

I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings. Cheers, Roberto

...

On 10.04.2020, at 13:08, Johan Helsingius <julf@julf.com> wrote:

On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

...

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway.

Julf

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-- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ

There will be no other way ! Better to be well prepared to get the best of the experience ! Vanda Scartezini Sent from my iPhone Sorry for typos

On 10 Apr 2020, at 10:57, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:

I fully agree. But even in case of F2F meetings we have some disadvantaged people. I am just wondering whether the digital divide gap is smaller on the case of online meetings - or at least a situation that we can improve in time - while travel around the world will never become a model where the gap becomes smaller. Just a thought - worth discussing. R

...

On 10.04.2020, at 15:51, Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com> wrote:

While I support this environmentally friendly and economically feasible approach, I'm concerned about representative participation: as AtLarge, should we not express concern for those with limited Internet access, naturally disadvantaged when it comes to online meetings?

Thank you for this discussion, peaceful holidays to those celebrating,

Joanna

W dniu 10.04.2020 o 15:31, Roberto Gaetano pisze:

...

I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings. Cheers, Roberto

...

On 10.04.2020, at 13:08, Johan Helsingius <julf@julf.com> wrote:

...

On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

...

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway.

Julf

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-- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ

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+1 Wolfgang, I wish the reform of holding international face to face meeting to be reconsidered not only in ICANN but in all businesses. We could read about the reports coming in how sky are becoming clear, how scientists are hearing the internal movement of the earth, even how ordinary people hearing the sounds of the birds in the urban surrounding. On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 12:21 PM Wolfgang Kleinwächter < wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info> wrote:

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))

wolfgang

Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:

If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.

However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (

Kaili

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote:

Right decision.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:

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--

Dear Wolfgang, whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards, Olivier On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment.  :-)))

wolfgang

...

Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:

If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.

However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F.  Already missing everybody.   : (

Kaili

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com <mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote:

Right decision.

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com <mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote:

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-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html

100% right Olivier . Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 11, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:

 Dear Wolfgang,

whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,

Olivier

On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

...

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))

wolfgang

...

Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:

If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.

However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (

Kaili

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote: Right decision.

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

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Olivier, I think you are absolutely right about the importance of a F2F meeting to bridge the gap and have substantial progress. However, what I think is no longer sustainable is a model by which we have oceanic gatherings with thousands of people multiple times per year. I believe that we can still have focused meetings for WG or committees or other (I believe that this is already happening, incidentally). Of course I like the F2F meetings, and the social events that go with them, the opportunity to meet with old time friends, to play music together, and all that, but still think that we should take this opportunity, forced by events, to think whether we can change the model. There is also another consideration. The user community that we represent cannot afford to travel worldwide multiple times, while the people who are involved professionally in internet governance can massively show up. We know that, in spite of all the efforts that ICANN is doing to fund user participation, this is intensively opposed by other stakeholder groups, and I do not know how the matter will end up in the long run. We have a parallel example, mutatis mutandis, with the European response - or lack thereof - to the pandemic emergency. When money distribution is involved, there might be some windows dressing, but at the end of the day there solidarity will be lacking. And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved. Cheers, Roberto On 11.04.2020, at 10:17, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: Dear Wolfgang, whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards, Olivier On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote: I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-))) wolfgang Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com><mailto:kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben: If this works well, it may become the norm from now on. However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : ( Kaili [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com<mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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When I was talking about other meetings I was thinking about those where all stakeholders are on par, like the NomCom, the ATRTn, and so on, where the participation of ALAC is ensured. R.

On 11.04.2020, at 13:16, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

...

And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness. Sincerely, Natalia Filina Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC) +7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:

Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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Hi I agree 100 per cent with Glenn. AK On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:32 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:

I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G

Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).

And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.

Sincerely, Natalia Filina

Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement

Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)

+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation

сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:

...

Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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Why not make this a limited participation meeting for those with roles and those willing to travel, and willing to take a medical test on arrival and organize it in a spacious hall with strict rules of social distancing? If that is feasible, the dates of the meeting could be a week or two later, the length of the meeting could be shorter by a day. All this if travel works, if the virus spread is expected to slow down by June, and if the host makes a spacious hotel available. Sivasubramanian M On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 01:59 Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:

I don’t think the work changes that much. Even in a virtual world, it will be a small subset of people who are actually up for the work. What would really be great is to get the lines of communication opened better between us the folks whose interests we represent and the new tech can help with that, for sure. Focus groups, surveys, webinars, etc. are all ways for folks to get just enough engaged to understand what’s at stake and communicate their experiences and expectations.

*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE <oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng> *Date: *Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:03 PM *To: *Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> *Cc: *At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting

Hi

I agree 100 per cent with Glenn.

AK

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:32 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:

I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G

Glenn McKnight

ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021

mcknight.glenn@gmail.com

Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog

www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>

http://toronto.ieee.ca/

IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair

glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight

289-830 6259 .

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:

I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).

And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.

Sincerely,

Natalia Filina

Secretary of EURALO

https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement

Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)

+7 906 722 54 61

Moscow, Russian Federation

сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:

Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita

On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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+1 Glenn,   Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias   _________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik HYPERLINK "mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at"matthias@hudobnik.at HYPERLINK "http://www.hudobnik.at/"http://www.hudobnik.at   Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting   I think we should be thinking of  how we fit in the "Brave  New World"  and still achieve our  mission.   If we can't  then what is our role? G Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 HYPERLINK "mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com"mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for  Internet Governance Hub Blog HYPERLINK "http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog"www.internetgovernancehub.blog  http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair  HYPERLINK "mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org"glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype  gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .     On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <HYPERLINK "mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com"filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket"  - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.     Sincerely, Natalia Filina   Secretary of EURALO   https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement   Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)   +7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation     сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <HYPERLINK "mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"mmoll@ca.inter.net>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back. Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:   On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved. So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large   At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings Kind regards Dave Kissoondoyal On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:

Agree with Olivier 100%.

A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F.  What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems.  Even the fun is in part useful fun.

While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes.  Some might call that Hell.

It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.

Greg

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote:

+1 Glenn,

Happy Eastern!

Best,

Matthias

_________________________

Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik

matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>

http://www.hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/>__

*Von:*At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] *Im Auftrag von *Glenn McKnight *Gesendet:* Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 *An:* Natalia Filina *Cc:* At Large *Betreff:* Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting

I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave  New World"  and still achieve our  mission.   If we can't  then what is our role? G

Glenn McKnight

ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021

mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>

Curator for  Internet Governance Hub Blog

www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>

http://toronto.ieee.ca/

IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair

glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype  gmcknight twitter gmcknight

289-830 6259 .

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote:

I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).

And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket"  - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.

Sincerely,

Natalia Filina

Secretary of EURALO

https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement

Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)

+7 906 722 54 61

Moscow, Russian Federation

сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>:

Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita

On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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-- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”

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Thanks and best regards *Dave Kissoondoyal, **MBA, ACMI* President *Internet Governance Forum Mauritius* www.igf-mu.org <http://www.igf-mu.org/> 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022  Fax : +230 677 8059    Mobile : +230 5257 8703 Email dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org> | Personal Page <http://www.kissoondoyal.com> |http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauritius |https://www.facebook.com/InternetGovernanceForum/ The information contained in this transmission, including any attachments hereto, is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at the information provided and return any and all copies of this communication to the sender

Dear Roberto, People will tend to take leave from work, when they have to attend F2C meetings. For virtual meetings we have to pay for the internet charges from our own pocket and no contribution from ICANN. It is obvious that day job will be given priority and then the virtual meeting. COVID-19 has worsened the situation as many of us will lose their jobs. Yes we are engaged with ICANN but earning our living is our priority Kind regards Dave On 14/04/2020 12:47, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R

...

On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org>> wrote:

I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier

It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings

Kind regards

Dave Kissoondoyal

On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:

...

Agree with Olivier 100%.

A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F.  What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems.  Even the fun is in part useful fun.

While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes.  Some might call that Hell.

It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.

Greg

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote:

+1 Glenn,

Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias

_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at> http://www.hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/>__

*Von:*At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>]*Im Auftrag von*Glenn McKnight *Gesendet:*Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 *An:*Natalia Filina *Cc:*At Large *Betreff:*Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting

I think we should be thinking of  how we fit in the "Brave  New World"  and still achieve our  mission.   If we can't then what is our role? G

Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype  gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote:

I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).

And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket"  - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.

Sincerely, Natalia Filina

Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement

Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)

+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation

сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>:

Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita

On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:

And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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-- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”

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---

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-- Thanks and best regards *Dave Kissoondoyal, **MBA, ACMI* President *Internet Governance Forum Mauritius* www.igf-mu.org <http://www.igf-mu.org/> 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022  Fax : +230 677 8059    Mobile : +230 5257 8703 Email dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org> | Personal Page <http://www.kissoondoyal.com> |http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauritius |https://www.facebook.com/InternetGovernanceForum/ The information contained in this transmission, including any attachments hereto, is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at the information provided and return any and all copies of this communication to the sender

Hi Holly I agree with you and with Olivier and others nothing beats a F2F meeting. It is also why teams who need to get some work done go away to another area to do work since if they are in their home cities they cannot give their full concentration on the project Best Judith Sent from my iPhone Judith@jhellerstein.com Skype ID:Judithhellerstein

On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:17 AM, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:

The short answer for me - very difficult at best.

When the meetings are in real time and out of tone, one is physically away - not there to take classes, or whatever. But if one is physically in the country, then the expectation is that you can do your job - and somehow fit in a suite of meetings as well. Challenge is one of the kinder descriptions .

Holly

...

On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:

Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R

...

On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org> wrote:

I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier

It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings

Kind regards

Dave Kissoondoyal

...

On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote: Agree with Olivier 100%.

A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.

While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.

It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.

Greg

...

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at> wrote: +1 Glenn,

Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias

_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at http://www.hudobnik.at

Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting

I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G

Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).

And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.

Sincerely, Natalia Filina

Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement

Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)

+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation

сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita

On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. --

---

Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”

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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Thanks and best regards

Dave Kissoondoyal, MBA, ACMI President Internet Governance Forum Mauritius www.igf-mu.org 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022 Fax : +230 677 8059 Mobile : +230 5257 8703

Email dave@igf-mu.org | Personal Page |http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauritius |https://www.facebook.com/InternetGovernanceForum/

The information contained in this transmission, including any attachments hereto, is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at the information provided and return any and all copies of this communication to the sender

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+1

On Apr 14, 2020, at 8:39 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear all,

While a face 2 face indeed can't be compared to remote in terms of productivity, I think there may still be some merit in trying to adopt a blended approach where one of the 3 meetings becomes virtual. One merit that comes to mind is that it will help us not to be caught unaware in future (yes there will be future challenges)

I also think going this route could help end users (Atlarge), better advocate for ICANN's further contribution towards improving internet penetration in countries through contributing to IXP initiatives, community networks, REN establishments, internet policy developments etc

Regards Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 12:41 Judith Hellerstein, <judith@jhellerstein.com <mailto:judith@jhellerstein.com>> wrote: Hi Holly I agree with you and with Olivier and others nothing beats a F2F meeting. It is also why teams who need to get some work done go away to another area to do work since if they are in their home cities they cannot give their full concentration on the project

Best Judith

Sent from my iPhone Judith@jhellerstein.com <mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com> Skype ID:Judithhellerstein

On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:17 AM, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote:

...

The short answer for me - very difficult at best.

When the meetings are in real time and out of tone, one is physically away - not there to take classes, or whatever. But if one is physically in the country, then the expectation is that you can do your job - and somehow fit in a suite of meetings as well. Challenge is one of the kinder descriptions .

Holly

...

On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R

...

On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org>> wrote:

I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier

It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings

Kind regards

Dave Kissoondoyal

On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:

...

Agree with Olivier 100%.

A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.

While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.

It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.

Greg

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote: +1 Glenn,

Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias

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Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting

I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G

Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog  <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ <http://toronto.ieee.ca/> IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).

And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.

Sincerely, Natalia Filina

Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo <https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo> https://individualusers.org/ <https://individualusers.org/> Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement

Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)

+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation

сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.

Marita

On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:

On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.

So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,

Olivier

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In agreement with your sentiments Olivier. Part of the reason why the Virtual meetings are working is due to the Interpersonal relationships we have built which transcend Cultural and Geographic bounderies. Let us be carefull not to speak for the majority, such a change in meeting approach should be preceded by widespread consultations. Best Regards On Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 11:17 am Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, <ocl@gih.com> wrote:

Dear Wolfgang,

whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,

Olivier

On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))

wolfgang

Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:

If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.

However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (

Kaili

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote:

Right decision.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

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Totally agree with Olivier. Nothing can replace face to face discussions. As we all know, the work of ICANN is done as much over meals/drinks as in meetings, and where knowledge and trust in everyone can be built. Holly

On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:17 PM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:

Dear Wolfgang,

whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,

Olivier

On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:

...

I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))

wolfgang

...

Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> <mailto:kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:

If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.

However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (

Kaili

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com <mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision.

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com <mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote:

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I think it’s only fair to do it in Malaysian time (UTC+8) now. Best, Yrjö On 9. Apr 2020, at 23.33, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote: Not a surprise. My plea - that this time, the meeting be held Malaysian time - this time better suited to the Asia Pacific region (which Cancun was not) Holly On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fnews%2Fannouncement-2020-04-09-en&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352258463&sdata=Wq6AzmI%2Bx4fqTnZx5vWk1cTVrgZIOEESvFos%2FdWwYzY%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fatlarge-lists.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fat-large&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352288490&sdata=zXlJmzXHioBTFvK6PIioHxueEJIHGZg0N%2Bv7nQe7gUY%3D&reserved=0 At-Large Official Site: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fatlarge.icann.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352298495&sdata=WiIGVdOWHiYkB37eKXQEFl7HAi0GzgXeRKLthhfNQJw%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Fpolicy&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352298495&sdata=gQjNLAo4igX90X1KgxaF65dhcoK1A%2BFchTSXI77ru00%3D&reserved=0) and the website Terms of Service (https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Ftos&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352298495&sdata=iSaTs1ZwrJHlbuqchLhvCIfCQ7uYpLu7X7bPgjtAQ1E%3D&reserved=0). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Good decision, but very sad Laxmi Prasad Yadav Nepal d Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Suhaidi Hassan <suhaidi.hassan.my@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Maureen and all,

On behalf of the ICANN68 host committee, I respect and understand this decision, although (and, honestly) it's a difficult one for us to accept.

We understand the decision was ultimately made that prioritises the health and safety of our ICANN community, the international guests travelling to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and, most importantly, mitigates the risk of spreading the Covid-19.

Our sympathies at this time are with those affected by Covid-19 all around the world.

We hope ICANN would consider Kuala Lumpur again as host of ICANN meeting in the future.

Thank you,

Kind regards,

Suhaidi Hassan ISOC Malaysia Chapter

...

On 10 Apr 2020, at 2:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

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