Good decision. On Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 00:00 Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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Right decision. Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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If this works well, it may become the norm from now on. However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : ( Kaili On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal <dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote:
Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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+1 – good idea, subject that ICANN can handle the same number of meetings online as offline. In addition to Zoom, YouTube streams with slides and some pictures and videos would be great. Best, Erich ao. Univ.-Prof. Mag. DDr. Erich Schweighofer Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik / Group Legal Informatics Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung / Department of European, International and Comparative Law Universität Wien / University of Vienna, Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, 1010 Wien, AT Tel. +43 1 4277 35305, Fax +43 1 4277 9353; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at<mailto:Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at>, https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at IRIS 21: https://www.univie.ac.at/RI/IRIS21 Bitte um Beiträge ReMeP 2021: https://www.remep.net/ Bitte um Projekte Von: Wolfgang Kleinwächter<mailto:wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info> Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2020 11:21 An: Kaili Kan<mailto:kankaili@gmail.com>; Ali Almeshal<mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com> Cc: At-Large Worldwide<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-))) wolfgang Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben: If this works well, it may become the norm from now on. However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : ( Kaili [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com<mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer.
Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway. Julf
I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings. Cheers, Roberto
On 10.04.2020, at 13:08, Johan Helsingius <julf@julf.com> wrote:
On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer.
Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway.
Julf
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While I support this environmentally friendly and economically feasible approach, I'm concerned about representative participation: as AtLarge, should we not express concern for those with limited Internet access, naturally disadvantaged when it comes to online meetings? Thank you for this discussion, peaceful holidays to those celebrating, Joanna W dniu 10.04.2020 o 15:31, Roberto Gaetano pisze:
I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings. Cheers, Roberto
On 10.04.2020, at 13:08, Johan Helsingius <julf@julf.com> wrote:
On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway.
Julf
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-- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ
I fully agree. But even in case of F2F meetings we have some disadvantaged people. I am just wondering whether the digital divide gap is smaller on the case of online meetings - or at least a situation that we can improve in time - while travel around the world will never become a model where the gap becomes smaller. Just a thought - worth discussing. R
On 10.04.2020, at 15:51, Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com> wrote:
While I support this environmentally friendly and economically feasible approach, I'm concerned about representative participation: as AtLarge, should we not express concern for those with limited Internet access, naturally disadvantaged when it comes to online meetings?
Thank you for this discussion, peaceful holidays to those celebrating,
Joanna
W dniu 10.04.2020 o 15:31, Roberto Gaetano pisze:
I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings. Cheers, Roberto
On 10.04.2020, at 13:08, Johan Helsingius <julf@julf.com> wrote:
On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway.
Julf
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-- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ
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There will be no other way ! Better to be well prepared to get the best of the experience ! Vanda Scartezini Sent from my iPhone Sorry for typos
On 10 Apr 2020, at 10:57, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree. But even in case of F2F meetings we have some disadvantaged people. I am just wondering whether the digital divide gap is smaller on the case of online meetings - or at least a situation that we can improve in time - while travel around the world will never become a model where the gap becomes smaller. Just a thought - worth discussing. R
On 10.04.2020, at 15:51, Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com> wrote:
While I support this environmentally friendly and economically feasible approach, I'm concerned about representative participation: as AtLarge, should we not express concern for those with limited Internet access, naturally disadvantaged when it comes to online meetings?
Thank you for this discussion, peaceful holidays to those celebrating,
Joanna
W dniu 10.04.2020 o 15:31, Roberto Gaetano pisze:
I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings. Cheers, Roberto
On 10.04.2020, at 13:08, Johan Helsingius <julf@julf.com> wrote:
On 10-04-2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. Or even just one annual F2F. Most of the real work is in WGs anyway.
Julf
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On April 10, 2020 at 13:31 roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com (Roberto Gaetano) wrote:
I tend to agree with Johan. As I discussed in a different mailing list, my personal opinion is that to have three large worldwide meetings is no longer a sustainable model, so I believe that ICANN should start discussing whether we could use a different approach. It is OK to have one AGM to be held as much as possible in person. We can have another large online meeting, and then use the funds to have more regional meetings.
I understand the basic sentiment but having been to quite a few ICANN meetings (about 20) my impression is that people go perhaps for one or two specific issues and then while there become involved in other issues. I sat in on many meetings I was either not aware were meeting topics before I began attending or that, upon sitting in quietly, were topics I might contribute to. But having run an ISP for many years I did have real experience in some underlying issues. For example the practical problems in intellectual property, privacy, law enforcement, customers' concerns, even business aspects. As well as technical topics as that is my background. Another very important experience was the immersion with people of other cultures and nations whose views were often personally enlightening. I don't often, for example, get to chat about privacy considerations with someone from what many of us might describe as a highly undemocratic nation, or a poor developing nation. It's another form of serendipity, like the serendipity of face to face interactions in the halls etc. Silo-ing into working group and regional meetings would seem to work against all that. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
+1 Wolfgang, I wish the reform of holding international face to face meeting to be reconsidered not only in ICANN but in all businesses. We could read about the reports coming in how sky are becoming clear, how scientists are hearing the internal movement of the earth, even how ordinary people hearing the sounds of the birds in the urban surrounding. On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 12:21 PM Wolfgang Kleinwächter < wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info> wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote:
Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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--
+1 Erich. Environment aspects are important, but not decisive in the ICANN meeting organisation. It is the question how best to organise the multistakeholder process taking into account time commitments and travel costs and who should share the burden. Some feeling of “representing the internet community”, taking responsibility and showing commitment to the “res publica” can be only achieved with a number of onsite-meetings. One Is the limit, but two are better for the community building. Best, ao. Univ.-Prof. Mag. DDr. Erich Schweighofer Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik / Group Legal Informatics Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung / Department of European, International and Comparative Law Universität Wien / University of Vienna, Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, 1010 Wien, AT Tel. +43 1 4277 35305, Fax +43 1 4277 9353; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at<mailto:Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at>, https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at IRIS 21: https://www.univie.ac.at/RI/IRIS21 Bitte um Beiträge ReMeP 2021: https://www.remep.net/ Bitte um Projekte Von: Nadira Alaraj<mailto:nadira.araj@gmail.com> Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 06:16 An: Wolfgang Kleinwächter<mailto:wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info> Cc: At-Large Worldwide<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting +1 Wolfgang, I wish the reform of holding international face to face meeting to be reconsidered not only in ICANN but in all businesses. We could read about the reports coming in how sky are becoming clear, how scientists are hearing the internal movement of the earth, even how ordinary people hearing the sounds of the birds in the urban surrounding. On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 12:21 PM Wolfgang Kleinwächter <wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info<mailto:wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info>> wrote: I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-))) wolfgang Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com<mailto:kankaili@gmail.com>> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben: If this works well, it may become the norm from now on. However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : ( Kaili [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com<mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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Dear Wolfgang, whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards, Olivier On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com <mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote:
Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com <mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
+1, Erich You put it in very nice language, Olivier. Am 11.04.2020 10:18 schrieb Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>: Dear Wolfgang, whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards, Olivier On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote: I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-))) wolfgang Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com><mailto:kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben: If this works well, it may become the norm from now on. However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : ( Kaili [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com<mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
100% right Olivier . Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 11, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Dear Wolfgang,
whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote: Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Hi all, I think nobody questions the importance of face to face meetings, but I support the idea to see each other only 2 times a year in the future: 1. When I was part of the meeting strategy working group in 2014 the number of three meetings was already questioned and at stake but a majority insisted that we need to meet 3 times per year in order “to get the work done. This was one reason why the middle meeting became smaller and is now called “policy meeting” 2. ICANN67 has proven online meetings can be possible, in fact attacking those that are interested in “getting the work done” and albeit we miss the corridor discussions at that point we can still have a chat at the next meeting which is just 3 months away. Also, the more we are getting used to it we will become better in the flow of the meeting. New tools will be introduced and people will learn how to interact virtually and effectively. 3. In the interest of environment we have to change our behaviour! If not now then never! I think moving one meeting to be fully virtually is a sacrifice the ICANN community can contribute. It will also save some money I hope. Money that could be dedicated for effective participation of all stakeholders. For instance travel support to the other 2 face to face meetings, or translations of key document into more languages, or high quality training tools and programmes. My 2 cents! Sandra Best Sandra (This message was sent from a mobile device)
Am 11.04.2020 um 10:56 schrieb Ali Almeshal <dralialmeshal@gmail.com>:
100% right Olivier .
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 11, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Dear Wolfgang,
whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote: Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Olivier, I think you are absolutely right about the importance of a F2F meeting to bridge the gap and have substantial progress. However, what I think is no longer sustainable is a model by which we have oceanic gatherings with thousands of people multiple times per year. I believe that we can still have focused meetings for WG or committees or other (I believe that this is already happening, incidentally). Of course I like the F2F meetings, and the social events that go with them, the opportunity to meet with old time friends, to play music together, and all that, but still think that we should take this opportunity, forced by events, to think whether we can change the model. There is also another consideration. The user community that we represent cannot afford to travel worldwide multiple times, while the people who are involved professionally in internet governance can massively show up. We know that, in spite of all the efforts that ICANN is doing to fund user participation, this is intensively opposed by other stakeholder groups, and I do not know how the matter will end up in the long run. We have a parallel example, mutatis mutandis, with the European response - or lack thereof - to the pandemic emergency. When money distribution is involved, there might be some windows dressing, but at the end of the day there solidarity will be lacking. And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved. Cheers, Roberto On 11.04.2020, at 10:17, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: Dear Wolfgang, whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards, Olivier On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote: I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-))) wolfgang Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com><mailto:kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben: If this works well, it may become the norm from now on. However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : ( Kaili [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com<mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards, Olivier
When I was talking about other meetings I was thinking about those where all stakeholders are on par, like the NomCom, the ATRTn, and so on, where the participation of ALAC is ensured. R.
On 11.04.2020, at 13:16, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back. Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness. Sincerely, Natalia Filina Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC) +7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 . On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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Hi I agree 100 per cent with Glenn. AK On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:32 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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-- Website <http://www.unilorin.edu.ng>, Weekly Bulletin <http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/index.php/bulletin> UGPortal <http://uilugportal.unilorin.edu.ng/> PGPortal <https://uilpgportal.unilorin.edu.ng/>
I don’t think the work changes that much. Even in a virtual world, it will be a small subset of people who are actually up for the work. What would really be great is to get the lines of communication opened better between us the folks whose interests we represent and the new tech can help with that, for sure. Focus groups, surveys, webinars, etc. are all ways for folks to get just enough engaged to understand what’s at stake and communicate their experiences and expectations. From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE <oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng> Date: Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:03 PM To: Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Cc: At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting Hi I agree 100 per cent with Glenn. AK On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:32 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>> wrote: I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org<mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 . On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com<mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness. Sincerely, Natalia Filina Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC) +7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back. Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote: On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved. So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. Website<http://www.unilorin.edu.ng>, Weekly Bulletin<http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/index.php/bulletin> UGPortal<http://uilugportal.unilorin.edu.ng/> PGPortal<https://uilpgportal.unilorin.edu.ng/>
Why not make this a limited participation meeting for those with roles and those willing to travel, and willing to take a medical test on arrival and organize it in a spacious hall with strict rules of social distancing? If that is feasible, the dates of the meeting could be a week or two later, the length of the meeting could be shorter by a day. All this if travel works, if the virus spread is expected to slow down by June, and if the host makes a spacious hotel available. Sivasubramanian M On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 01:59 Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
I don’t think the work changes that much. Even in a virtual world, it will be a small subset of people who are actually up for the work. What would really be great is to get the lines of communication opened better between us the folks whose interests we represent and the new tech can help with that, for sure. Focus groups, surveys, webinars, etc. are all ways for folks to get just enough engaged to understand what’s at stake and communicate their experiences and expectations.
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE <oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng> *Date: *Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:03 PM *To: *Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> *Cc: *At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
Hi
I agree 100 per cent with Glenn.
AK
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:32 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn@gmail.com
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight
289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely,
Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO
https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61
Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 04:18 sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet@gmail.com> wrote:
Why not make this a limited participation meeting for those with roles and those willing to travel, and willing to take a medical test on arrival and organize it in a spacious hall with strict rules of social distancing? If that is feasible, the dates of the meeting could be a week or two later, the length of the meeting could be shorter by a day. All this if travel works, if the virus spread is expected to slow down by June, and if the host makes a spacious hotel available.
Or, at least organize it as a meeting of spacious hubs, time-synchronized and optimized, one or two hubs in Europe, one or two in the Americas, one or two in Asia, Australia and Africa? Still it doesn't make as much sense as one face to face meeting where everyone comes together, there are local movement problems to be factored in, and we this may also carry the risk of a slight increase in the traces of geopolitics that might already exist... Dropping this suggestion nevertheless.
Sivasubramanian M
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 01:59 Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
I don’t think the work changes that much. Even in a virtual world, it will be a small subset of people who are actually up for the work. What would really be great is to get the lines of communication opened better between us the folks whose interests we represent and the new tech can help with that, for sure. Focus groups, surveys, webinars, etc. are all ways for folks to get just enough engaged to understand what’s at stake and communicate their experiences and expectations.
*From: *At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE <oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng> *Date: *Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:03 PM *To: *Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> *Cc: *At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
Hi
I agree 100 per cent with Glenn.
AK
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:32 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn@gmail.com
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight
289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely,
Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO
https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61
Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org
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+1 Glenn, Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias _________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik HYPERLINK "mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at"matthias@hudobnik.at HYPERLINK "http://www.hudobnik.at/"http://www.hudobnik.at Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 HYPERLINK "mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com"mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog HYPERLINK "http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog"www.internetgovernancehub.blog http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair HYPERLINK "mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org"glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 . On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <HYPERLINK "mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com"filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness. Sincerely, Natalia Filina Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC) +7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <HYPERLINK "mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"mmoll@ca.inter.net>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back. Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote: On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved. So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Agree with Olivier 100%. A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun. While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell. It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side. Greg On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at> wrote:
+1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern!
Best,
Matthias
_________________________
Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik
matthias@hudobnik.at
*Von:* At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] *Im Auftrag von *Glenn McKnight *Gesendet:* Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 *An:* Natalia Filina *Cc:* At Large *Betreff:* Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn@gmail.com
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight
289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely,
Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO
https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61
Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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-- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”
I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings Kind regards Dave Kissoondoyal On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:
Agree with Olivier 100%.
A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.
While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.
It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.
Greg
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote:
+1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern!
Best,
Matthias
_________________________
Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik
matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>
http://www.hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/>__
*Von:*At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] *Im Auftrag von *Glenn McKnight *Gesendet:* Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 *An:* Natalia Filina *Cc:* At Large *Betreff:* Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight
289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely,
Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO
https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61
Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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-- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”
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Thanks and best regards *Dave Kissoondoyal, **MBA, ACMI* President *Internet Governance Forum Mauritius* www.igf-mu.org <http://www.igf-mu.org/> 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022 Fax : +230 677 8059 Mobile : +230 5257 8703 Email dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org> | Personal Page <http://www.kissoondoyal.com> |http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauritius |https://www.facebook.com/InternetGovernanceForum/ The information contained in this transmission, including any attachments hereto, is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at the information provided and return any and all copies of this communication to the sender
Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org<mailto:dave@igf-mu.org>> wrote: I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings Kind regards Dave Kissoondoyal On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote: Agree with Olivier 100%. A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun. While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell. It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side. Greg On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at<mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote: +1 Glenn, Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias _________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at<mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at> http://www.hudobnik.at<http://www.hudobnik.at/> Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org<mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 . On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com<mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness. Sincerely, Natalia Filina Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC) +7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back. Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote: On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved. So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone” _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Thanks and best regards [https://scontent.fmru1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p160x160/20728389_105228723529767_6707451693244346618_n.jpg?oh=b3bc3d94c6f934a78cc913b0553cbab2&oe=5A2FEA71]Dave Kissoondoyal, MBA, ACMI President Internet Governance Forum Mauritius www.igf-mu.org<http://www.igf-mu.org/> 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022 Fax : +230 677 8059 Mobile : +230 5257 8703 Email dave@igf-mu.org<mailto:dave@igf-mu.org> | Personal Page<http://www.kissoondoyal.com/> |http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauritius |https://www.facebook.com/InternetGovernanceForum/ The information contained in this transmission, including any attachments hereto, is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at the information provided and return any and all copies of this communication to the sender _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Dear Roberto, People will tend to take leave from work, when they have to attend F2C meetings. For virtual meetings we have to pay for the internet charges from our own pocket and no contribution from ICANN. It is obvious that day job will be given priority and then the virtual meeting. COVID-19 has worsened the situation as many of us will lose their jobs. Yes we are engaged with ICANN but earning our living is our priority Kind regards Dave On 14/04/2020 12:47, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R
On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org>> wrote:
I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier
It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings
Kind regards
Dave Kissoondoyal
On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:
Agree with Olivier 100%.
A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.
While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.
It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.
Greg
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote:
+1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias
_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at> http://www.hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/>__
*Von:*At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>]*Im Auftrag von*Glenn McKnight *Gesendet:*Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 *An:*Natalia Filina *Cc:*At Large *Betreff:*Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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-- Thanks and best regards *Dave Kissoondoyal, **MBA, ACMI* President *Internet Governance Forum Mauritius* www.igf-mu.org <http://www.igf-mu.org/> 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022 Fax : +230 677 8059 Mobile : +230 5257 8703 Email dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org> | Personal Page <http://www.kissoondoyal.com> |http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauritius |https://www.facebook.com/InternetGovernanceForum/ The information contained in this transmission, including any attachments hereto, is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender at the information provided and return any and all copies of this communication to the sender
The short answer for me - very difficult at best. When the meetings are in real time and out of tone, one is physically away - not there to take classes, or whatever. But if one is physically in the country, then the expectation is that you can do your job - and somehow fit in a suite of meetings as well. Challenge is one of the kinder descriptions . Holly
On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R
On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org>> wrote:
I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings Kind regards
Dave Kissoondoyal On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:
Agree with Olivier 100%.
A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.
While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.
It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.
Greg
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote: +1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias
_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at> http://www.hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/>
Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ <http://toronto.ieee.ca/> IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo <https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo> https://individualusers.org/ <https://individualusers.org/> Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org <http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”
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Hi Holly I agree with you and with Olivier and others nothing beats a F2F meeting. It is also why teams who need to get some work done go away to another area to do work since if they are in their home cities they cannot give their full concentration on the project Best Judith Sent from my iPhone Judith@jhellerstein.com Skype ID:Judithhellerstein
On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:17 AM, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
The short answer for me - very difficult at best.
When the meetings are in real time and out of tone, one is physically away - not there to take classes, or whatever. But if one is physically in the country, then the expectation is that you can do your job - and somehow fit in a suite of meetings as well. Challenge is one of the kinder descriptions .
Holly
On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R
On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org> wrote:
I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier
It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings
Kind regards
Dave Kissoondoyal
On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote: Agree with Olivier 100%.
A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.
While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.
It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.
Greg
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at> wrote: +1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias
_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at http://www.hudobnik.at
Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”
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Dave Kissoondoyal, MBA, ACMI President Internet Governance Forum Mauritius www.igf-mu.org 1st Floor, NG Tower, Wall Street, Ebene, Mauritius Phone: +230 5291 4022 Fax : +230 677 8059 Mobile : +230 5257 8703
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Dear all, While a face 2 face indeed can't be compared to remote in terms of productivity, I think there may still be some merit in trying to adopt a blended approach where one of the 3 meetings becomes virtual. One merit that comes to mind is that it will help us not to be caught unaware in future (yes there will be future challenges) I also think going this route could help end users (Atlarge), better advocate for ICANN's further contribution towards improving internet penetration in countries through contributing to IXP initiatives, community networks, REN establishments, internet policy developments etc Regards Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 12:41 Judith Hellerstein, <judith@jhellerstein.com> wrote:
Hi Holly I agree with you and with Olivier and others nothing beats a F2F meeting. It is also why teams who need to get some work done go away to another area to do work since if they are in their home cities they cannot give their full concentration on the project
Best Judith
Sent from my iPhone Judith@jhellerstein.com Skype ID:Judithhellerstein
On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:17 AM, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
The short answer for me - very difficult at best.
When the meetings are in real time and out of tone, one is physically away - not there to take classes, or whatever. But if one is physically in the country, then the expectation is that you can do your job - and somehow fit in a suite of meetings as well. Challenge is one of the kinder descriptions .
Holly
On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R
On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org> wrote:
I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier
It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings
Kind regards
Dave Kissoondoyal On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:
Agree with Olivier 100%.
A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.
While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.
It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.
Greg
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at> wrote:
+1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias
_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at http://www.hudobnik.at
*Von:* At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] *Im Auftrag von *Glenn McKnight *Gesendet:* Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 *An:* Natalia Filina *Cc:* At Large *Betreff:* Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com> wrote:
I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor). And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo https://individualusers.org/ Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net>:
Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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-- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”
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-- Thanks and best regards
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+1
On Apr 14, 2020, at 8:39 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
While a face 2 face indeed can't be compared to remote in terms of productivity, I think there may still be some merit in trying to adopt a blended approach where one of the 3 meetings becomes virtual. One merit that comes to mind is that it will help us not to be caught unaware in future (yes there will be future challenges)
I also think going this route could help end users (Atlarge), better advocate for ICANN's further contribution towards improving internet penetration in countries through contributing to IXP initiatives, community networks, REN establishments, internet policy developments etc
Regards Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 12:41 Judith Hellerstein, <judith@jhellerstein.com <mailto:judith@jhellerstein.com>> wrote: Hi Holly I agree with you and with Olivier and others nothing beats a F2F meeting. It is also why teams who need to get some work done go away to another area to do work since if they are in their home cities they cannot give their full concentration on the project
Best Judith
Sent from my iPhone Judith@jhellerstein.com <mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com> Skype ID:Judithhellerstein
On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:17 AM, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote:
The short answer for me - very difficult at best.
When the meetings are in real time and out of tone, one is physically away - not there to take classes, or whatever. But if one is physically in the country, then the expectation is that you can do your job - and somehow fit in a suite of meetings as well. Challenge is one of the kinder descriptions .
Holly
On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Just for curiosity, how can you cope with your day job and at the same time attend a F2F meeting? R
On 14.04.2020, at 10:33, Dave Kissoondoyal <dave@igf-mu.org <mailto:dave@igf-mu.org>> wrote:
I join Greg, Holly, Natalia and others and agree with Olivier
It is a big challenge to cope with the day jobs and at the same time attend the virtual meetings
Kind regards
Dave Kissoondoyal
On 14/04/2020 09:59, Greg Shatan wrote:
Agree with Olivier 100%.
A virtual meeting is a shadow of a F2F. What we miss at an F2F is not merely “fun”, it is the best opportunity to solve difficult cross-community/sector problems, and to build the relationships that provide the basis for trust to solve these difficult problems. Even the fun is in part useful fun.
While work does get done at a virtual meeting, it’s hardly even a meeting. For me, Cancun was more like a 7 day long conference call “sprint”, while still being expected to keep up with your day job and do the dishes. Some might call that Hell.
It’s too early to say what the New Normal is. For the next 12-18 months, we will be in the New Abnormal, not knowing what lies in the other side.
Greg
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:52 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik <matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at>> wrote: +1 Glenn,
Happy Eastern! Best, Matthias
_________________________ Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik matthias@hudobnik.at <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at> http://www.hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/>
Von: At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Im Auftrag von Glenn McKnight Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2020 20:32 An: Natalia Filina Cc: At Large Betreff: Re: [At-Large] ICANN68 to be a virtual meeting
I think we should be thinking of how we fit in the "Brave New World" and still achieve our mission. If we can't then what is our role? G
Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn@gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog/> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ <http://toronto.ieee.ca/> IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 12:32 PM Natalia Filina <filinafilka@gmail.com <mailto:filinafilka@gmail.com>> wrote: I fully agree with Olivier, and may add that regionally allocated meetings, 3 times a year, give people from each region the opportunity to attend at least 1 (closer, less expensive if there is no financial sponsor).
And as for new people for At-Large: everyone who started to work without opportunity to get "fellow ticket" - even a year of online work for newcomers is not enough to begin to understand the processes, discussions and specifics of the interaction of the entire ICANN system. So it relates directly to quality of everyone`s input and effectiveness.
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo <https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo> https://individualusers.org/ <https://individualusers.org/> Vice-Chair of ALAC Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
Officer of SIG IoT (ISOC)
+7 906 722 54 61 Moscow, Russian Federation
сб, 11 апр. 2020 г. в 16:40, Marita Moll <mmoll@ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net>>: Not provocative at all, Olivier. We must be careful what we wish for. Unintended consequences are always there to bite back.
Marita
On 4/11/2020 7:16 AM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
On 11/04/2020 12:29, Roberto Gaetano wrote: And the truth is that ALAC does not have the financial resources that other stakeholder groups have, therefore will be at disadvantage whenever money allocation for activities will be involved.
So is what you are saying, that those who do not have the money like ALAC will meet online, whilst those who do, for example the GDD Summit, will meet face to face? So we've pretty much signed ALAC out having any significant involvement on important topics? Of course I am being provocative here, but we have to be careful about what we wish: if we wish less meetings, that will mean there will probably never be any further meetings outside of North America and Europe since the remaining meetings will be attended by thousands and thousands of people. The inter-meeting "action" (6 months is a long time) will take place in other meetings where we are not invited. IMHO we have to fight to keep that right to be a *all* meetings, not just the big ones. And we also have to fight to keep some meetings taking place in developing economies, or have given up on billions of citizens in these countries? (again I am being provocative :-) ) Kindest regards,
Olivier
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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org <http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- *********************************** Greg Shatan President, ISOC-NY “The Internet is for Everyone”
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In agreement with your sentiments Olivier. Part of the reason why the Virtual meetings are working is due to the Interpersonal relationships we have built which transcend Cultural and Geographic bounderies. Let us be carefull not to speak for the majority, such a change in meeting approach should be preceded by widespread consultations. Best Regards On Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 11:17 am Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Dear Wolfgang,
whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote:
Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhDhttp://www.gih.com/ocl.html
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On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 13:47 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Dear Wolfgang,
whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus.
+1 Olivier. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I
can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> <kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com> wrote:
Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhDhttp://www.gih.com/ocl.html
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Totally agree with Olivier. Nothing can replace face to face discussions. As we all know, the work of ICANN is done as much over meals/drinks as in meetings, and where knowledge and trust in everyone can be built. Holly
On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:17 PM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Dear Wolfgang,
whilst I'd like to think we can get by with only having two face to face meetings per year, I am not convinced as I am already seeing the limitations of such meetings. First, I believe that this is likely to negatively impact on our community. The ALAC and Regional Leaders are a Team that is supposed to work together towards a common goal. A vital component of a Team is for them to work well together and a synergy to come out of this collaboration. This is impossible by doing meetings online only. You need the essential human face to face element. You need people to be able to talk to each other during a break. You need bilaterals. Second, one thing which I have noticed over years of involvement at ICANN, when the going gets tough, these moments in particularly tough working groups where there is no consensus and we are a hair away from a trench war, having a face to face meeting with the corridor discussions, with other people around, with the possibility of speaking separately with the person or group of people that do not agree on a consensus, is a vital component part of finding the elusive consensus. For reasons of confidentiality I cannot explain specific examples, but I can think of dozens of times when, during a break, a deadlock has been resolved by opposing parties meeting quickly in a corner of the room and understanding what is the problem, off the record, to find a solution and not end up with a failure in the process. I have personally experienced this at many meetings, whether at ITU, United Nations, WIPO, WEF... and of course at ICANN. With less face to face meeting opportunities, I can foresee that some ICANN processes are going to be delayed. I can foresee that some ICANN processes might result in deadlock, because there is no opportunity to meet face to face and reach a deal. Now that everyone speaks on the record and nobody sees the facial expression, yet the white of the eye and body language of the other persons they are speaking with, participants end up speaking to a blank screen and rhetoric wins over reason. In a top-down system where one person makes the decision, this doesn't matter so much. But in a bottom-up system where everyone has to work towards a common goal, the human touch is a vital component, as we are not machines and never will be. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/04/2020 11:21, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:
I did this proposed already after virtuel@Cancun67: Lets reform the ICANN Meeting Strategy: One Spring and one Fall ICANN Meeting F2F, and one virtual meeting in the summer. This would also save travel money and be good for the environment. :-)))
wolfgang
Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com> <mailto:kankaili@gmail.com> hat am 10. April 2020 um 02:32 geschrieben:
If this works well, it may become the norm from now on.
However, still feeling that nothing can replace F2F. Already missing everybody. : (
Kaili
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Ali Almeshal < dralialmeshal@gmail.com <mailto:dralialmeshal@gmail.com>> wrote: Right decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com <mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote:
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Not a surprise. My plea - that this time, the meeting be held Malaysian time - this time better suited to the Asia Pacific region (which Cancun was not) Holly
On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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+1 Even if it makes it difficult for European night owls like me who can barely reach the coffee machine in the morning… R.
On 09.04.2020, at 22:33, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
Not a surprise. My plea - that this time, the meeting be held Malaysian time - this time better suited to the Asia Pacific region (which Cancun was not)
Holly
On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com <mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote:
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I think it’s only fair to do it in Malaysian time (UTC+8) now. Best, Yrjö On 9. Apr 2020, at 23.33, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote: Not a surprise. My plea - that this time, the meeting be held Malaysian time - this time better suited to the Asia Pacific region (which Cancun was not) Holly On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2020-04-09-en<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fnews%2Fannouncement-2020-04-09-en&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352258463&sdata=Wq6AzmI%2Bx4fqTnZx5vWk1cTVrgZIOEESvFos%2FdWwYzY%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fatlarge-lists.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fat-large&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352288490&sdata=zXlJmzXHioBTFvK6PIioHxueEJIHGZg0N%2Bv7nQe7gUY%3D&reserved=0 At-Large Official Site: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fatlarge.icann.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352298495&sdata=WiIGVdOWHiYkB37eKXQEFl7HAi0GzgXeRKLthhfNQJw%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Fpolicy&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352298495&sdata=gQjNLAo4igX90X1KgxaF65dhcoK1A%2BFchTSXI77ru00%3D&reserved=0) and the website Terms of Service (https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Ftos&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd0f5ce4b92f14729dc5808d7dcc551e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637220612352298495&sdata=iSaTs1ZwrJHlbuqchLhvCIfCQ7uYpLu7X7bPgjtAQ1E%3D&reserved=0). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 15:01 Yrjö Länsipuro <yrjo_lansipuro@hotmail.com> wrote:
I think it’s only fair to do it in Malaysian time (UTC+8) now.
+1. Yes, and we could also call it ICANN Malaysia, with due Opening Ceremony honors to the Malaysian host. Sivasubramanian M
Best,
Yrjö
On 9. Apr 2020, at 23.33, Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
Not a surprise. My plea - that this time, the meeting be held Malaysian time - this time better suited to the Asia Pacific region (which Cancun was not)
Holly
On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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Thanks Great décision. ------------ Cordialement ABDELDJALIL BACHAR BONG ---------------------------------- PRESIDENT & CEO "HOUSE OF AFRICA" E-mail: bachar@houseof.africa Twitter: @HOUSEOFAFRIK WEBSITE : www.houseof.africa Whatsapp: +23566274284 Skype: Bongbour ------------------------------------- Le Secrétaire Exécutif/Executive Secretary Forum sur la Gouvernance de l'Internet au Tchad (FGI Tchad) / Chad Internet Governance Forum ------------------------------------- E-mail: Bachar@igf.td Website: www.igf.td Twitter :@IGFCHAD https://twitter.com/bacharbong Tél:0023566274284 N'djaména(Tchad) --------------------------------------------- |AFRINIC Fellow|ISOC CHAD Member|ICANN/AFRALO Member|NEXTGEN Fellow|GIVE1PROJECT MEMBER|IGFSA MEMBER|ACIEDD BOARD MEMBER|UN YOUTH DELEGATE - CHAD 2016-2018|ICANN60 Fellow ||Youth Peacebuilder|VP United Nations Association of Chad (UNA-Tchad)|| Le jeu. 9 avr. 2020 à 19:30, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> a écrit :
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Dear Maureen and all, On behalf of the ICANN68 host committee, I respect and understand this decision, although (and, honestly) it's a difficult one for us to accept. We understand the decision was ultimately made that prioritises the health and safety of our ICANN community, the international guests travelling to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and, most importantly, mitigates the risk of spreading the Covid-19. Our sympathies at this time are with those affected by Covid-19 all around the world. We hope ICANN would consider Kuala Lumpur again as host of ICANN meeting in the future. Thank you, Kind regards, Suhaidi Hassan ISOC Malaysia Chapter
On 10 Apr 2020, at 2:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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Good decision, but very sad Laxmi Prasad Yadav Nepal d Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Suhaidi Hassan <suhaidi.hassan.my@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Maureen and all,
On behalf of the ICANN68 host committee, I respect and understand this decision, although (and, honestly) it's a difficult one for us to accept.
We understand the decision was ultimately made that prioritises the health and safety of our ICANN community, the international guests travelling to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and, most importantly, mitigates the risk of spreading the Covid-19.
Our sympathies at this time are with those affected by Covid-19 all around the world.
We hope ICANN would consider Kuala Lumpur again as host of ICANN meeting in the future.
Thank you,
Kind regards,
Suhaidi Hassan ISOC Malaysia Chapter
On 10 Apr 2020, at 2:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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Dear Suhaidi and all, As others have mentioned in this thread, this was expected, and there was little anyone could do differently. Nevertheless, it's a loss for our region, and would have been particularly bad for Suhaidi and his team in KL. I appreciate all the work done by Suhaidi & team, and sincerely hope that sometime in the future, after COVID-19 is just a distant, bad memory, we will go back to KL. Stay safe, With kind regards, satish On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 7:35 AM Laxmi Yadav <laxmiyadav@gmail.com> wrote:
Good decision, but very sad Laxmi Prasad Yadav Nepal d
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Suhaidi Hassan <suhaidi.hassan.my@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Maureen and all,
On behalf of the ICANN68 host committee, I respect and understand this decision, although (and, honestly) it's a difficult one for us to accept.
We understand the decision was ultimately made that prioritises the health and safety of our ICANN community, the international guests travelling to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and, most importantly, mitigates the risk of spreading the Covid-19.
Our sympathies at this time are with those affected by Covid-19 all around the world.
We hope ICANN would consider Kuala Lumpur again as host of ICANN meeting in the future.
Thank you,
Kind regards,
Suhaidi Hassan ISOC Malaysia Chapter
On 10 Apr 2020, at 2:29 AM, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
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Dear friends, I must say that I absolutely agree with what Olivier says. Beyond this I would like to add that I am concerned with online interpretation at our ICANN68 meetings. If this worked properly so that ALL of us can participate on equal terms, I think that, in principle, would help to correct the unbeatable scenario of face-to-face meetings. Kind regards *Sergio Salinas Porto**Presidente Internauta Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN <https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo>**Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar/>/FeTIA <http://www.fetia.org.ar/>**FUILAC- Federación de Usuarios de Internet de LAC <https://fuilac.org>**facebook: salinasporto <http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> **twitter: sergiosalinas <http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas>**Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819**"Ojalá podamos ser desobedientes, cada vez que recibimos órdenes que humillan nuestra * * conciencia o violan nuestro sentido común" Eduardo Galeano* El jue., 9 abr. 2020 a las 15:30, Maureen Hilyard (< maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>) escribió:
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Hi All, As mentioned earlier by Glenn, let me elaborate; I do not think the discussion now should be about having virtual meetings or face to face in future . The current reality is we are having ICANN 68 as Virtual. and who knows maybe ICANN 69 or even 70. I do not see a complete travel restriction being lifted even if we manage to get out of this situation. I see the current situation like 9/11, the world never recovered from it completely because it was catastrophic like the current situation. Air travel and airport checks changed forever cos of that. How do we make sure that we get people to participate and get the job done giving the reality now should be our focus. The reality is there are lots of challenges not captured currently, time zone issues, day job, lack of connectivity (digital divide) and so on if we manage to solve all this then we can now come back to the discussion of future meetings going virtual. We need to put forward a formal proposal to ICANN and the Board. This is something most of us have never imagined even in our dreams and was never captured. Now is the time to capture it formally and not leave it till when it is late like handling of GDPR. AK On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:18 PM Sergio Salinas Porto < presidencia@internauta.org.ar> wrote:
Dear friends, I must say that I absolutely agree with what Olivier says. Beyond this I would like to add that I am concerned with online interpretation at our ICANN68 meetings. If this worked properly so that ALL of us can participate on equal terms, I think that, in principle, would help to correct the unbeatable scenario of face-to-face meetings. Kind regards
*Sergio Salinas Porto**Presidente Internauta Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN <https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo>**Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar/>/FeTIA <http://www.fetia.org.ar/>**FUILAC- Federación de Usuarios de Internet de LAC <https://fuilac.org>**facebook: salinasporto <http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> **twitter: sergiosalinas <http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas>**Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819**"Ojalá podamos ser desobedientes, cada vez que recibimos órdenes que humillan nuestra *
* conciencia o violan nuestro sentido común" Eduardo Galeano*
El jue., 9 abr. 2020 a las 15:30, Maureen Hilyard (< maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>) escribió:
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participants (35)
-
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong -
ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE -
Ali Almeshal -
Barrack Otieno -
bzs@theworld.com -
carlosraul@gutierrez.se -
Dave Kissoondoyal -
Erich Schweighofer -
Glenn McKnight -
Greg Shatan -
Holly Raiche -
Joanna Kulesza -
Johan Helsingius -
John More -
Jonathan Zuck -
Judith Hellerstein -
Kaili Kan -
Laxmi Yadav -
Marita Moll -
Matthias M. Hudobnik -
Maureen Hilyard -
Nadira Alaraj -
Natalia Filina -
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond -
Roberto Gaetano -
Roberto Gaetano -
sandra hoferichter -
Satish Babu -
Sergio Salinas Porto -
Seun Ojedeji -
sivasubramanian muthusamy -
Suhaidi Hassan -
Vanda Scartezini -
Wolfgang Kleinwächter -
Yrjö Länsipuro