Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August
Dear Hanchuan and Colleagues Thank you for attending the meeting. Here are some tasks we need to do before the next fortnightly meeting: 1) Improve the proposal, specify the language, repertoire and etc. (I will send out a updated document next week) 2) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea community, to help all have a better understanding of coordination principles. 3) Select Kenny and other representatives to KGP meeting next Tuesday Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to mention. Regards Wang Wei -----邮件原件----- 发件人: Subrenat, Jean-Jacques [mailto:jjs@dyalog.net] 发送时间: 2014年8月7日 15:15 收件人: Han Chuan Lee 抄送: chinesegp@icann.org; Kenny Huang, Ph.D.; Wang Wei 主题: Re: [ChineseGP] 答复: CGP Fortnightly Meeting Han Chuan, Colleagues, terribly sorry, my mistake. Please accept my apologies. Would anyone on this list have a few minutes to come on Skype on a one-to-one basis, so that I could catch up on the work of our group? On Skype my name is jjcaillou. Thank you. Best regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Han Chuan Lee" <hanchuan.lee@icann.org> À: "Jean-Jacques Subrenat" <jjs@dyalog.net> Cc: chinesegp@icann.org, "Kenny Huang, Ph.D." <huangksh@gmail.com>, "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn> Envoyé: Jeudi 7 Août 2014 08:56:11 Objet: Re: [ChineseGP] 答复: CGP Fortnightly Meeting Hi Jean-Jacques, As you have indicated in your preference, the meeting was changed to “Thursday 7 Aug 0800am in Hongkong). It is now 253pm (UTC+8, HK time). The calendar invite was updated and Wang Wei had sent out an email on 6 Aug to inform everyone. "For this time (Thursday 7 August), I would prefer - Wednesday 6 at midnight UTC (which is Thursday 7 August 08:00 in Hongkong), - or later in the day, say Thursday 7 at 08:00 UTC (same day, 16:00 in Hongkong)." Regards Han Chuan, Lee On 7/8/14 2:35 pm, "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques" <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
Hello Han Chuan,
yes I know, and I'm in front of my laptop trying to connect.
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Han Chuan Lee" <hanchuan.lee@icann.org> À: "Jean-Jacques Subrenat" <jjs@dyalog.net>, "Kenny Huang, Ph.D." <huangksh@gmail.com> Cc: chinesegp@icann.org Envoyé: Jeudi 7 Août 2014 08:31:52 Objet: Re: [ChineseGP] 答复: CGP Fortnightly Meeting
Hi Jean-Jacques,
The meeting was this morning.
Regards Han Chuan, Lee
On 7/8/14 2:11 pm, "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques" <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
Same problem here (France). Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Kenny Huang, Ph.D." <huangksh@gmail.com> À: "Wang Wei" <wangwei@cnnic.cn> Cc: chinesegp@icann.org Envoyé: Jeudi 7 Août 2014 02:08:38 Objet: Re: [ChineseGP] 答复: CGP Fortnightly Meeting
I have the same problem
Kenny
On 7 August 2014 08:07, Wang Wei < wangwei@cnnic.cn > wrote:
Hi Hanchuan
The Adobe meeting is not started. I just cant access in.
Could your restarted it ? if the room ID 35105106 ?
Regards
Wang Wei _______________________________________________ ChineseGP mailing list ChineseGP@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/chinesegp
_______________________________________________ ChineseGP mailing list ChineseGP@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/chinesegp _______________________________________________ ChineseGP mailing list ChineseGP@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/chinesegp
Dear Wang Wei, Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I couldn't make last week's meeting. I hope to make the one on Aug. 21. 2) I'm not sure we can think much about coordination before the JGP and KGP have drafts of the code points they intend to submit. I am interested to see how something like .紀伊國屋 (the name of a famous Japanese bookshop; see www.kinokuniya.co.jp<http://www.kinokuniya.co.jp> ) would be handled, as 國 and 国 would be regarded as variants by the CGP and LGR, but not I think by the JGP. 3) Please send further information about the KGP's meetings (if they are virtual). Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon -----Original Message----- From: chinesegp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Wang Wei Sent: 08 August 2014 02:46 To: ChineseGP@icann.org Subject: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear Hanchuan and Colleagues Thank you for attending the meeting. Here are some tasks we need to do before the next fortnightly meeting: 1) Improve the proposal, specify the language, repertoire and etc. (I will send out a updated document next week) 2) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea community, to help all have a better understanding of coordination principles. 3) Select Kenny and other representatives to KGP meeting next Tuesday Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to mention. Regards Wang Wei
Dear all, The issue proposed by Chris is the key point of understanding difference between CGP and JGP (about variants). I asked some Japanese friends and their explanation is: "国" can be used in any situations. "國" is a traditional and old character and not used usually. However, Japanese people sometimes use "國" in old name such as shrine, traditional crafts, companies which were founded many years ago. Therefore, "国" can be used instead of "國", but "國" can be used only in special cases. That means the SC and TC are not "variants" in Japanese. For your reference. BR, Zhiwei 2014-08-15 Zhiwei Yan 发件人： Dillon, Chris 发送时间： 2014-08-14 19:17:41 收件人： Wang Wei; ChineseGP@icann.org 抄送： 主题： Re: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear Wang Wei, Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I couldn't make last week's meeting. I hope to make the one on Aug. 21. 2) I'm not sure we can think much about coordination before the JGP and KGP have drafts of the code points they intend to submit. I am interested to see how something like .紀伊國屋 (the name of a famous Japanese bookshop; see www.kinokuniya.co.jp ) would be handled, as 國 and 国 would be regarded as variants by the CGP and LGR, but not I think by the JGP. 3) Please send further information about the KGP's meetings (if they are virtual). Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon -----Original Message----- From: chinesegp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Wang Wei Sent: 08 August 2014 02:46 To: ChineseGP@icann.org Subject: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear Hanchuan and Colleagues Thank you for attending the meeting. Here are some tasks we need to do before the next fortnightly meeting: 1) Improve the proposal, specify the language, repertoire and etc. (I will send out a updated document next week) 2) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea community, to help all have a better understanding of coordination principles. 3) Select Kenny and other representatives to KGP meeting next Tuesday Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to mention. Regards Wang Wei
Dear Zhiwei, That is a very nice way of explaining what is a surprisingly common phenomenon. If one has a collection of 50 Japanese business cards, my guess is one would find a couple of examples of old character forms. Organizations seem to have a fondness for how their names were written when they were first set up. We can smell tradition and nostalgia. Perhaps we can call them lexical alternate forms (better name welcome!), as they only occur in certain lexical items. The simplest thing may be to say that in Japanese URLs only 新字体 (shinjitai “new character forms”) are to be used. (I’m really writing that to provoke discussion.) As regards characters outside the 常用漢字 (jōyō kanji ‘characters for regular use’) and 人名用漢字 (jinmeiyō kanji ‘characters for use in personal names’ and which include some traditional forms of characters in the常用漢字), decisions need to be made about which characters are to be used and in which form: (旧字体 kyūjitai ‘old character forms’) or 拡張新字体 (kakuchō shinjitai ‘extended new character forms’; i.e. 旧字体 made to look like新字体). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_shinjitai . Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon> From: Zhiwei Yan [mailto:yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn] Sent: 15 August 2014 08:46 To: Dillon, Chris; Wang Wei; ChineseGP@icann.org Subject: Re: Re: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear all, The issue proposed by Chris is the key point of understanding difference between CGP and JGP (about variants). I asked some Japanese friends and their explanation is: "国" can be used in any situations. "國" is a traditional and old character and not used usually. However, Japanese people sometimes use "國" in old name such as shrine, traditional crafts, companies which were founded many years ago. Therefore, "国" can be used instead of "國", but "國" can be used only in special cases. That means the SC and TC are not "variants" in Japanese. For your reference. BR, Zhiwei 2014-08-15 ________________________________ Zhiwei Yan ________________________________ 发件人： Dillon, Chris 发送时间： 2014-08-14 19:17:41 收件人： Wang Wei; ChineseGP@icann.org<mailto:ChineseGP@icann.org> 抄送： 主题： Re: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear Wang Wei, Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I couldn't make last week's meeting. I hope to make the one on Aug. 21. 2) I'm not sure we can think much about coordination before the JGP and KGP have drafts of the code points they intend to submit. I am interested to see how something like .紀伊國屋 (the name of a famous Japanese bookshop; see www.kinokuniya.co.jp<http://www.kinokuniya.co.jp> ) would be handled, as 國 and 国 would be regarded as variants by the CGP and LGR, but not I think by the JGP. 3) Please send further information about the KGP's meetings (if they are virtual). Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon> -----Original Message----- From: chinesegp-bounces@icann.org<mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Wang Wei Sent: 08 August 2014 02:46 To: ChineseGP@icann.org<mailto:ChineseGP@icann.org> Subject: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear Hanchuan and Colleagues Thank you for attending the meeting. Here are some tasks we need to do before the next fortnightly meeting: 1) Improve the proposal, specify the language, repertoire and etc. (I will send out a updated document next week) 2) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea community, to help all have a better understanding of coordination principles. 3) Select Kenny and other representatives to KGP meeting next Tuesday Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to mention. Regards Wang Wei
Dear Chris, Totally agree with you. The first thing for JGP is to regulate the character table. But, I guess the 新字体 and 旧字体 will be mixed in the table. Anyway, let's waiting for JGP's outcome. BR, Zhiwei 在 2014-08-15 19:42:18，"Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk> 写道：
Dear Zhiwei,
That is a very nice way of explaining what is a surprisingly common phenomenon. If one has a collection of 50 Japanese business cards, my guess is one would find a couple of examples of old character forms. Organizations seem to have a fondness for how their names were written when they were first set up. We can smell tradition and nostalgia.
Perhaps we can call them lexical alternate forms (better name welcome!), as they only occur in certain lexical items.
The simplest thing may be to say that in Japanese URLs only 新字体(shinjitai “new character forms”) are to be used. (I’m really writing that to provoke discussion.) As regards characters outside the 常用漢字 (jōyō kanji ‘characters for regular use’) and 人名用漢字 (jinmeiyō kanji ‘characters for use in personal names’ and which include some traditional forms of characters in the常用漢字), decisions need to be made about which characters are to be used and in which form: (旧字体kyūjitai ‘old character forms’) or拡張新字体 (kakuchō shinjitai ‘extended new character forms’; i.e. 旧字体 made to look like新字体). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_shinjitai .
Regards,
Chris.
--
Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon
From: Zhiwei Yan [mailto:yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn] Sent: 15 August 2014 08:46 To: Dillon, Chris; Wang Wei; ChineseGP@icann.org Subject: Re: Re: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August
Dear all,
The issue proposed by Chris is the key point of understanding difference between CGP and JGP (about variants).
I asked some Japanese friends and their explanation is:
"国" can be used in any situations.
"國" is a traditional and old character and not used usually.
However, Japanese people sometimes use "國" in old name such as shrine, traditional crafts, companies which were founded many years ago.
Therefore, "国" can be used instead of "國", but "國" can be used only in special cases.
That means the SC and TC are not "variants" in Japanese.
For your reference.
BR,
Zhiwei
2014-08-15
Zhiwei Yan
发件人： Dillon, Chris
发送时间： 2014-08-14 19:17:41
收件人： Wang Wei; ChineseGP@icann.org
抄送：
主题：Re: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August
Dear Wang Wei,
Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I couldn't make last week's meeting. I hope to make the one on Aug. 21.
2) I'm not sure we can think much about coordination before the JGP and KGP have drafts of the code points they intend to submit. I am interested to see how something like .紀伊國屋(the name of a famous Japanese bookshop; see www.kinokuniya.co.jp ) would be handled, as 國 and 国 would be regarded as variants by the CGP and LGR, but not I think by the JGP.
3) Please send further information about the KGP's meetings (if they are virtual).
Regards,
Chris.
--
Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon
-----Original Message----- From: chinesegp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Wang Wei Sent: 08 August 2014 02:46 To: ChineseGP@icann.org Subject: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August
Dear Hanchuan and Colleagues
Thank you for attending the meeting.
Here are some tasks we need to do before the next fortnightly meeting:
1) Improve the proposal, specify the language, repertoire and etc. (I will send out a updated document next week)
2) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea community, to help all have a better understanding of coordination principles.
3) Select Kenny and other representatives to KGP meeting next Tuesday
Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to mention.
Regards
Wang Wei
participants (4)
-
Dillon, Chris -
Wang Wei -
Zhiwei Yan -
延志伟