Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
All, FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today. Jonathan
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version. The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small. Alan At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
Alan and Jonathan, If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing it from the motions page to the resolutions page? http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405 Thanks, Glen -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À : jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version. The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small. Alan At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan. Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link is to the (original) motion. I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on. I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33 To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Cc: Glen de Saint Géry Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Alan and Jonathan, If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing it from the motions page to the resolutions page? http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405 Thanks, Glen -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À : jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version. The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small. Alan At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
Hi, BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time. It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities. I think the letter should have given the full results. It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future. I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO. avri On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link is to the (original) motion. I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message----- From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33 To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Cc: Glen de Saint Géry Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing it from the motions page to the resolutions page? http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks, Glen
-----Message d'origine----- De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À : jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how. In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion. Volker Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link is to the (original) motion. I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message----- From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33 To: Alan Greenberg;jrobinson@afilias.info;council@gnso.icann.org Cc: Glen de Saint Géry Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing it from the motions page to the resolutions page? http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks, Glen
-----Message d'origine----- De :owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À : jrobinson@afilias.info;council@gnso.icann.org Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
On 16-May-14 07:55, Volker Greimann wrote:
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
I agree, though I think it is enough to say by majority or by super majority in the letter and attach the full voting record.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
I think we do. Every vote, positive or negative can be accompanied by a voting statement which remains part of the vote and is communicated with the vote whenever the vote is communicated: Abstentions require a voting statement, while other votes are allowed a statement.* That is why I said it was my fault for not having made one. Anytime the point is important enough to a council member to record, it can be done. And that is why the voting record needs to be attached to all such letters. Glen, thanks for attaching the voting record to the archived letter. avri * (For process geeks: the rule was changed a few years back, as people who wanted to make a statement were abstaining in order to do so. Seemed better to allow a statement with any vote.)
Thanks Avri & Volker, Good points and Ill work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future. I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts. Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available. Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts. Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them. Jonathan From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net] Sent: 16 May 2014 12:56 To: Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how. In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion. Volker Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria: Hi, BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time. It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities. I think the letter should have given the full results. It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future. I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO. avri On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote: Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan. Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link is to the (original) motion. I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on. I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33 To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Cc: Glen de Saint Géry Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Alan and Jonathan, If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing it from the motions page to the resolutions page? http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405 Thanks, Glen -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À : jrobinson@afilias.info; council@gnso.icann.org Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version. The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small. Alan At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote: All, FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today. Jonathan -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Hi 'motion passed by majority' is 'a bare fact' Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin. thank you avri On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and I’ll work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
“Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.”
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Avri, Understood and I did not intend to indicate that, expressed as such, it is anything other than bare fact. Thanks, Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@acm.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 14:00 To: jrobinson@afilias.info; 'Volker Greimann'; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi 'motion passed by majority' is 'a bare fact' Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin. thank you avri On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and Ill work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Hi, Change subject. This discussion has gotten me thinking about the future and the whole notion of voting to accept a deviation from PDP policy recommendations. I know we said it wasn't a precedent, but having done it once, there is no reason to expect that it can't happen again, unless we make a rule against it, which I do not expect us to do. In retrospect it seems odd to me that a PDP policy that was approved by a super-majority, could be exempted by a majority. Is this a voting practice we wish to endorse for the future? Perhaps this is an issue that should be discussed futher and might even be an issue for the SCI to chew on for a spell. As this practice of the Board checking back with us becomes regularized, something I hope continues, we need to refine our processes to work with this. We are already working on ideas for accelerating non-PDP working group process in several groups. We might also need to look at the voting thresholds for such motions. avri
That is why I originally raised the question of what voting threshold would we use. Marika was correct in that the current rules do not mention this kind of vote. Not surprising because we have never really had this kind of vote before and we did not contemplate such a possibility when drafting the rules on thresholds (for those not present, translating the old Council thresholds to those for a bicameral Council involved a LOT of thought and some vigorous debate, but this particular question was just not considered). I do not believe that it is really important in the current case. The original New gTLD Policy was not a Consensus Policy (ie altering existing contracts) and so did not require a super-majority to have the force of law. However, if we were to do another such "change" to policy, and that policy was a Consensus Policy, I strongly believe that a super-majority should be required to alter it, and the rules (and in fact the Bylaws) should be changed to reflect this. Alan At 16/05/2014 09:47 AM, Avri Doria wrote:
Hi,
Change subject.
This discussion has gotten me thinking about the future and the whole notion of voting to accept a deviation from PDP policy recommendations. I know we said it wasn't a precedent, but having done it once, there is no reason to expect that it can't happen again, unless we make a rule against it, which I do not expect us to do.
In retrospect it seems odd to me that a PDP policy that was approved by a super-majority, could be exempted by a majority. Is this a voting practice we wish to endorse for the future?
Perhaps this is an issue that should be discussed futher and might even be an issue for the SCI to chew on for a spell. As this practice of the Board checking back with us becomes regularized, something I hope continues, we need to refine our processes to work with this. We are already working on ideas for accelerating non-PDP working group process in several groups. We might also need to look at the voting thresholds for such motions.
avri
Avri / Volker, Would you like me to write a short letter to the NGPC (which will then become part of the formal record) indicating the voting? Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@acm.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 14:00 To: jrobinson@afilias.info; 'Volker Greimann'; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi 'motion passed by majority' is 'a bare fact' Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin. thank you avri On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and Ill work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
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- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
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www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Jonathan, et. al., I think such a letter is a bad idea. No one is barred from speaking, either individually or with the full-force of their constituency, but the vote ought to be the sole and unified voice of the Council. Berard -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Robinson <jrobinson@afilias.info> To: 'Avri Doria' <avri@acm.org>; 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>; council <council@gnso.icann.org> Sent: Fri, May 16, 2014 6:31 am Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Avri / Volker, Would you like me to write a short letter to the NGPC (which will then become part of the formal record) indicating the voting? Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@acm.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 14:00 To: jrobinson@afilias.info; 'Volker Greimann'; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi 'motion passed by majority' is 'a bare fact' Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin. thank you avri On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and Ill work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
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Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
I tend to agree with John on this point, seeing as this is so far after the fact. But going forward (and I realize that time was short on this issue), perhaps we could have given a few days to pen a “minority statement” on this (or any) motion. What are the rules & procedures around this. Thanks— J. From: John Berard <johnberard@aol.com<mailto:johnberard@aol.com>> Date: Friday, May 16, 2014 at 9:01 To: "jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>" <jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>>, "avri@acm.org<mailto:avri@acm.org>" <avri@acm.org<mailto:avri@acm.org>>, "vgreimann@key-Systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net>" <vgreimann@key-Systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net>>, GNSO Council List <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Jonathan, et. al., I think such a letter is a bad idea. No one is barred from speaking, either individually or with the full-force of their constituency, but the vote ought to be the sole and unified voice of the Council. Berard -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Robinson <jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>> To: 'Avri Doria' <avri@acm.org<mailto:avri@acm.org>>; 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-Systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net>>; council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Sent: Fri, May 16, 2014 6:31 am Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Avri / Volker, Would you like me to write a short letter to the NGPC (which will then become part of the formal record) indicating the voting? Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@acm.org<mailto:avri@acm.org?>] Sent: 16 May 2014 14:00 To: jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; 'Volker Greimann'; council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi 'motion passed by majority' is 'a bare fact' Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin. thank you avri On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and I’ll work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
“Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.”
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net?>] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org<mailto:Glen@icann.org?>]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info> <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info?>>; council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org?>>
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org> <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org?>> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org?>] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info> <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info?>>; council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org?>> Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net?>>
Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Best regards,
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Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net?>>
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Hi James and everyone as they stand currently, the GNSO Operating Procedures specify that an individual Councilor must provide an explanation for an abstention on a vote, and may do so for either a Yes or No vote. Any such explanation has to be recorded in the minutes of that meeting, and draft minutes are to be produced within 8 days of a meeting. Following the Chair and Vice-Chairs¹ initial vetting of the draft, Councilors may then approve or object to the minutes prior to their posting. I hope this helps. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4892 Email: mary.wong@icann.org * One World. One Internet. * From: "James M. Bladel" <jbladel@godaddy.com> Date: Friday, May 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM To: John Berard <johnberard@aol.com>, "jrobinson@afilias.info" <jrobinson@afilias.info>, "avri@acm.org" <avri@acm.org>, "vgreimann@key-Systems.net" <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>, "council@gnso.icann.org" <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
I tend to agree with John on this point, seeing as this is so far after the fact.
But going forward (and I realize that time was short on this issue), perhaps we could have given a few days to pen a ³minority statement² on this (or any) motion. What are the rules & procedures around this.
Thanks
J.
From: John Berard <johnberard@aol.com> Date: Friday, May 16, 2014 at 9:01 To: "jrobinson@afilias.info" <jrobinson@afilias.info>, "avri@acm.org" <avri@acm.org>, "vgreimann@key-Systems.net" <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>, GNSO Council List <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, et. al.,
I think such a letter is a bad idea. No one is barred from speaking, either individually or with the full-force of their constituency, but the vote ought to be the sole and unified voice of the Council.
Berard
-----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Robinson <jrobinson@afilias.info> To: 'Avri Doria' <avri@acm.org>; 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>; council <council@gnso.icann.org> Sent: Fri, May 16, 2014 6:31 am Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Avri / Volker,
Would you like me to write a short letter to the NGPC (which will then become part of the formal record) indicating the voting?
Jonathan
-----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org?> ] Sent: 16 May 2014 14:00 To: jrobinson@afilias.info; 'Volker Greimann'; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Hi
'motion passed by majority'
is 'a bare fact'
Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin.
thank you
avri
On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and I¹ll work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
³Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.²
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net?> ] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org <mailto:Glen@icann.org?> ]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info?> >; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org?> >
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org?>
[mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org?> ] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info?> >; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org?> > Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net?> >
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com> <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net?> >
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com> <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
All, Confirming, Chair and Vice Chairs have a draft of the minute. Will review asap. Jonathan From: Mary Wong [mailto:mary.wong@icann.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 17:45 To: James M. Bladel; John Berard; jrobinson@afilias.info; avri@acm.org; vgreimann@key-Systems.net; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi James and everyone as they stand currently, the GNSO Operating Procedures specify that an individual Councilor must provide an explanation for an abstention on a vote, and may do so for either a Yes or No vote. Any such explanation has to be recorded in the minutes of that meeting, and draft minutes are to be produced within 8 days of a meeting. Following the Chair and Vice-Chairs initial vetting of the draft, Councilors may then approve or object to the minutes prior to their posting. I hope this helps. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4892 Email: mary.wong@icann.org * One World. One Internet. * From: "James M. Bladel" <jbladel@godaddy.com> Date: Friday, May 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM To: John Berard <johnberard@aol.com>, "jrobinson@afilias.info" <jrobinson@afilias.info>, "avri@acm.org" <avri@acm.org>, "vgreimann@key-Systems.net" <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>, "council@gnso.icann.org" <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair I tend to agree with John on this point, seeing as this is so far after the fact. But going forward (and I realize that time was short on this issue), perhaps we could have given a few days to pen a minority statement on this (or any) motion. What are the rules & procedures around this. Thanks J. From: John Berard <johnberard@aol.com> Date: Friday, May 16, 2014 at 9:01 To: "jrobinson@afilias.info" <jrobinson@afilias.info>, "avri@acm.org" <avri@acm.org>, "vgreimann@key-Systems.net" <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>, GNSO Council List <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Jonathan, et. al., I think such a letter is a bad idea. No one is barred from speaking, either individually or with the full-force of their constituency, but the vote ought to be the sole and unified voice of the Council. Berard -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Robinson <jrobinson@afilias.info> To: 'Avri Doria' <avri@acm.org>; 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-Systems.net>; council <council@gnso.icann.org> Sent: Fri, May 16, 2014 6:31 am Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Avri / Volker, Would you like me to write a short letter to the NGPC (which will then become part of the formal record) indicating the voting? Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org?> ] Sent: 16 May 2014 14:00 To: jrobinson@afilias.info; 'Volker Greimann'; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi 'motion passed by majority' is 'a bare fact' Please do not indicate that this is requesting a spin. thank you avri On 16-May-14 08:55, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Avri & Volker,
Good points and Ill work with you to remedy in this case if possible and ensure that it is dealt with in future.
I was sensitive to the point, but when expressing it in words in a draft of the letter, it felt to me as if I was putting a spin on it so I backed off and reported the bare facts.
Note that, with this issue in mind, was the reason I referred the reader to the fact that a full discussion had taken place and that a record of that was available.
Full records of the discussions and the detail of the issues raised therein are available to the NGPC, or other interested parties, through mail archives, meeting recordings and transcripts.
Not quite as clear as you may have liked I do understand but I was aware of the subtleties and sensitivities here and attempted to reflect them.
Jonathan
*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-Systems.net?> ] *Sent:* 16 May 2014 12:56 *To:* Avri Doria; council@gnso.icann.org *Subject:* Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Agreed. We should make it a point to clearly deliniate the votes in each communication to the board in the future, i.e. not only include the complete voting record, but also who voted how.
In some cases, we may also want to allow the dissenting groups to include a dissenting opinion with the submission of the motion.
Volker
Am 16.05.2014 13:44, schrieb Avri Doria:
Hi,
BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time.
It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities.
I think the letter should have given the full results.
It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future.
I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO.
avri
On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan.
Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link
is to the (original) motion.
I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on.
I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org <mailto:Glen@icann.org?> ]
Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33
To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info?> >; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org?> >
Cc: Glen de Saint Géry
Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair
Alan and Jonathan,
If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing
it from the motions page to the resolutions page?
http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405
Thanks,
Glen
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org?> > [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org?> ] De
la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À :
jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info <mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info?> >; council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org <mailto:council@gnso.icann.org?> > Objet : Re: [council] Re:
Letter from the NGPC Chair
Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small
error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion
passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on
the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the
final version.
The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the
impact of the error is likely to be small.
Alan
At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:
All,
FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today.
Jonathan
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net?> >
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net?> >
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Dear All, The motion has been corrected on the motion page and the link to the voting results has been added. https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Motions+8+May+2014 Thank you. Kind regards, Glen De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Avri Doria Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 13:44 À : council@gnso.icann.org Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Hi, BTW I m glad Alan brought this up. At the time I was displeased that the letter did not give the vote count, but was distracted and did not say anything at the time. It allows the reader to assume that it was passed by a large margin, or even super majority as most things sent by the council, as opposed to having the barest of majorities. I think the letter should have given the full results. It is my fault as well, as I should have made a statement when I voted against this. A mistake I will try to avoid in the future. I still this this is a sad day for the GNSO. avri On 16-May-14 05:02, Jonathan Robinson wrote: Thanks Glen and well-spotted Alan. Correct, the body of the letter contains the correct resolution but the link is to the (original) motion. I thought the motion would be changed / updated to that which was voted on. I'll talk with Glen and we'll get it fixed by one route or another. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Glen de Saint Géry [mailto:Glen@icann.org] Sent: 16 May 2014 09:33 To: Alan Greenberg; jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Cc: Glen de Saint Géry Subject: RE: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Alan and Jonathan, If you like, I will ask Web admin to fix the link, if they can, by changing it from the motions page to the resolutions page? http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#201405 Thanks, Glen -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : vendredi 16 mai 2014 06:31 À : jrobinson@afilias.info<mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info>; council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Objet : Re: [council] Re: Letter from the NGPC Chair Jonathan, the letter was published by ICANN today, and I noticed a small error. The letter includes a link described as "The full text of the motion passed is available here". The link, however, points to the Motions page on the Wiki which is the original motion going into the meeting and not the final version. The version appended to the text of the letter is the correct one, so the impact of the error is likely to be small. Alan At 09/05/2014 05:29 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote: All, FYI. Please see attached for letter sent to the NGPC today. Jonathan
participants (8)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Avri Doria -
Glen de Saint Géry -
James M. Bladel -
John Berard -
Jonathan Robinson -
Mary Wong -
Volker Greimann