Thanks for pointing out Milton’s constructive response. I have responded to his comments to hopefully continue a constructive dialogue. From: Judith Hellerstein via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2025 at 12:08 PM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>, alac@icann.org <alac@icann.org> Subject: [CPWG] Re: The DNS Is Broken - Response Hi Carlton, Very interesting. Milton is not wrong in many of his points. Judith Sent from my iPad judith@jhellerstein.com Mobile: +1202333517 On Jun 18, 2025, at 12:00 PM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:  Y'all might have already seen on one or other of these lists the article authored by Michael Palage and now published in CirceID. The response from one of my favourite polemicists, Milton Mueller, is as interesting. https://circleid.com/posts/icann-is-broken Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Milton acknowledges existing dysfunctions - slow policy development, organizational bloat, and inefficient review mechanisms - but fundamentally supports the current multistakeholder model, particularly post-IANA transition reforms. In watching, reading and listening to him over time, here is what I have extracted: - He believes the IANA Transition was necessary and strengthened accountability through structural reforms (Empowered Community, IRP, etc.) - He seems to accept multistakeholder governance as the ideal model although some stakeholder groups (e.g., IPCC, GAC) exert disproportionate influence or behave like industry lobbies - He rejects the notion of ICANN as a trade association on condition if it were, it would likely be less susceptible to procedural gridlock - He is wary of imposing a regulatory posture for ICANN and is ever vigilant for what I call regulatory overhead - He thinks post-transition reforms are more legitimate and structurally sound than is usually acknowledged - He is wobbly on sustaining the endless review cycles that the reforms brought about - Believes the Board should be more honest and amend byelaws rather than ignore them - He is fundamentally opposed to subsidisation of stakeholder groups I differ on three of those outtakes, especially the last one. If the existing house arrangement is to remain even minimally viable, what we call the At-Large can only remain functional if it is subsidized. If you think otherwise, it can only be because you can go along with a fig leaf of effective end-users-as-stakeholder-participants was the real end game for reform. Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 at 14:24, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:

I do agree with Michael that we should not loose sight of the fact that ATRT was a process enshrined into ICANN bylaw(re:ATRT). The issue for me is not a question of whether ATRT should remain or not but how ICANN is attempting to get rid of ATRT. If the process has become such a resource guzzling activity then ICANN should come back to the community to find a fix to it. ATRT 3 still has less than 60% implementation, unless a new ATRT will be looking into a major structural review, allowing more time to implement v3 and introducing a lighter version ATRT may be a good way forward but that discussion needs to have occurred within the community (and the Board).

Once a force has been able to get a vehicle jump started, it's good to let go, continuing to push the vehicle can be a waste of resources. Previous ATRTs have achieved a lot of the objective of the activity and perhaps a longer periodic trigger for ATRT would be ideal if having a lighter version with much smaller scope is not desirable by the community.

Regards

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 at 13:07, michael palage.com via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

...

Thanks for pointing out Milton’s constructive response.

I have responded to his comments to hopefully continue a constructive dialogue.

*From: *Judith Hellerstein via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Date: *Wednesday, June 18, 2025 at 12:08 PM *To: *Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> *Cc: *CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>, alac@icann.org <alac@icann.org> *Subject: *[CPWG] Re: The DNS Is Broken - Response

Hi Carlton,

Very interesting. Milton is not wrong in many of his points.

Judith

Sent from my iPad

judith@jhellerstein.com

Mobile: +1202333517

On Jun 18, 2025, at 12:00 PM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:



Y'all might have already seen on one or other of these lists the article authored by Michael Palage and now published in CirceID.

The response from one of my favourite polemicists, Milton Mueller, is as interesting.

https://circleid.com/posts/icann-is-broken

Carlton

============================== *Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================

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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,*

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!

I really appreciate the topic so I decided to share my personal point of view please take a look: https://circleid.com/posts/icann-is-broken#13465 Chokri On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 1:57 PM gopal via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

Greetings. It is a nice article.

DNS has several vulnerabilities. 100% fool proofing of DNS is not a viable option.

I suggest the following articles for reading:

Afnic launches IBDNS, the “intentionally broken” DNS server

https://www.afnic.fr/en/observatory-and-resources/news/afnic-launches-ibdns-...

Why the DNS is broken, in plain language 12 November 2008 By Kim Davies

https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/why-the-dns-is-broken-in-plain-langua...

The title "Why the DNS is broken" is quite thought provoking. Technical reasons do not bother much about the intentionality.

The CricleID article in the trace and the associated comment point to managerial handles to break the DNS and they attract a host of concerns on intentionality.

Your thoughtd...

Sincerely,

Gopal T V 0 9840121302 https://vidwan.inflibnet.ac.in/profile/57545 https://www.facebook.com/gopal.tadepalli ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. T V Gopal Professor Department of Computer Science and Engineering & Director, Centre for Applied Research in Indic Technologies [CARIT] College of Engineering, Guindy Campus Anna University Chennai - 600 025, INDIA Ph : (Off) 22351723 Extn. 3340 (Res) 24454753 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ *From:* Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Sent:* 18 June 2025 21:29 *To:* LAC-Discuss-en <lac-discuss-en@icann.org>; CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject:* [CPWG] The DNS Is Broken - Response

Y'all might have already seen on one or other of these lists the article authored by Michael Palage and now published in CirceID.

The response from one of my favourite polemicists, Milton Mueller, is as interesting.

https://circleid.com/posts/icann-is-broken

Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.