Domain Name Abuse... potentially
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier
Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start. Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks, Joanna W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze:
Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang
Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben:
Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R
On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com <mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote:
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom...
Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment?
Kindest regards,
Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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-- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ
It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com> Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org" <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start. Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks, Joanna W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze: Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben: Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ
Non-issue IMO. It wasn't that long ago that there was a working group that thrashed over the demands of the IOC that they be given special status to reserve a broad swath of names, I was on that committee, in which ISOC reps and lawyers wanted a status equivalent of the Red Cross. I strongly argued against the equivalency, part of a PoV that prevailed. The IOC has access to the same takedown remedies as any other brand, and is welcome to use them. That speculators would try to cash in is a feature of ICANN policy, and it's too late to turn back that clock, I don't see any abuse of registrants going on, and abuse of end-users won't occur unless some of these speculative domains are used for phishing. If the ISOC cared about its presence beyond bullying half the Greek restaurants in the world, the path is relatively simple and it doesn't even need its own TLD. As a body with observer status at the UN, the IOC would qualify easily under .INT from which it could develop a complete official domain hierarchy. End users would know (and could be messaged) that the only legit official olympic domains would be under .INT and that would be the end of the problem. On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 11:03, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea.
*From: *CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza < jkuleszaicann@gmail.com> *Date: *Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM *To: *"cpwg@icann.org" <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially
Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start.
Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks,
Joanna
W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze:
Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea?
Wolfgang
Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben:
Both - your perception depends on which side you are.
It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim.
R
On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com> wrote:
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom...
Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment?
Kindest regards,
Olivier
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--
Kind regards,
Joanna Kulesza
-------------------
Joanna Kulesza, PhD
University of Lodz, Poland
ICANN ALAC Vice Chair
SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI
TT: @KuleszaJ
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
. INT is a GREAT idea! Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.InnovatorsNetwork.org<http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org> ________________________________ From: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:27:34 AM To: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Cc: Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>; cpwg@icann.org <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Non-issue IMO. It wasn't that long ago that there was a working group that thrashed over the demands of the IOC that they be given special status to reserve a broad swath of names, I was on that committee, in which ISOC reps and lawyers wanted a status equivalent of the Red Cross. I strongly argued against the equivalency, part of a PoV that prevailed. The IOC has access to the same takedown remedies as any other brand, and is welcome to use them. That speculators would try to cash in is a feature of ICANN policy, and it's too late to turn back that clock, I don't see any abuse of registrants going on, and abuse of end-users won't occur unless some of these speculative domains are used for phishing. If the ISOC cared about its presence beyond bullying half the Greek restaurants in the world, the path is relatively simple and it doesn't even need its own TLD. As a body with observer status at the UN, the IOC would qualify easily under .INT from which it could develop a complete official domain hierarchy. End users would know (and could be messaged) that the only legit official olympic domains would be under .INT and that would be the end of the problem. On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 11:03, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> wrote: It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com<mailto:jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>" <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start. Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks, Joanna W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze: Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben: Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
Jonathan: I beg to demur. I went to some lengths to get the European Union OUT of .INT, OK? To date, .INT is still owned by ICANN itself. Enough said. CW
El 27 de marzo de 2020 a las 19:27 Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> escribió:
. INT is a GREAT idea!
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org
--------------------------------------------- From: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 10:27:34 AM To: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Cc: Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>; cpwg@icann.org <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially
Non-issue IMO.
It wasn't that long ago that there was a working group that thrashed over the demands of the IOC that they be given special status to reserve a broad swath of names, I was on that committee, in which ISOC reps and lawyers wanted a status equivalent of the Red Cross. I strongly argued against the equivalency, part of a PoV that prevailed.
The IOC has access to the same takedown remedies as any other brand, and is welcome to use them. That speculators would try to cash in is a feature of ICANN policy, and it's too late to turn back that clock, I don't see any abuse of registrants going on, and abuse of end-users won't occur unless some of these speculative domains are used for phishing.
If the ISOC cared about its presence beyond bullying half the Greek restaurants in the world, the path is relatively simple and it doesn't even need its own TLD. As a body with observer status at the UN, the IOC would qualify easily under .INT from which it could develop a complete official domain hierarchy. End users would know (and could be messaged) that the only legit official olympic domains would be under .INT and that would be the end of the problem.
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 11:03, Jonathan Zuck < JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org > wrote:
> >
It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea.
From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org > on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com mailto:jkuleszaicann@gmail.com > Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org mailto:cpwg@icann.org " <cpwg@icann.org mailto:cpwg@icann.org > Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially
Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start.
Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks,
Joanna
W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze:
> > >
Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea?
Wolfgang
> > > >
Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben:
Both - your perception depends on which side you are.
It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim.
R
> > > > >
On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com mailto:ocl@gih.com > wrote:
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom...
Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment?
Kindest regards,
Olivier
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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> > > >
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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> > >
_______________________________________________
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CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
> >
--
Kind regards,
Joanna Kulesza
-------------------
Joanna Kulesza, PhD
University of Lodz, Poland
ICANN ALAC Vice Chair
SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI
TT: @KuleszaJ
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>
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
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Most platforms that sell domain names banned "corona" themed domains. So I expect those registration volumes to go down. Best, Theo Geurts On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Jonathan Zuck wrote:
It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea.
*From: *CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com> *Date: *Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM *To: *"cpwg@icann.org" <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially
Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start.
Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks,
Joanna
W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze:
Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea?
Wolfgang
Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben:
Both - your perception depends on which side you are.
It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim.
R
On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com> wrote:
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom...
Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment?
Kindest regards,
Olivier
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_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza
Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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Basically, if you buy a domain name in the hopes of reselling it, that's a non-problem. Definitely not, in itself, abuse. An irritation, for some. And a potential problem. But not yet one. However, if you take one of those names, and use it to misrepresent yourself (specifically your site) as someone/something you are not, that is abuse. Also fraud. The question to my mind is, is that problem better addressed as DNS abuse? Or via the existing legal system as fraud? Which, I suppose, depends in part on how well the legal system can deal with fraud on an international level in an interconnected world. Bill Jouris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 8:03 AM, Jonathan Zuck<JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
There’s plenty of activity in the infosec space and many of the registrars, registries and others have taken action around the current crisis: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/it-sicherheit-coronavirus-hacker-cybercr... http://domainincite.com/25368-namecheap-and-others-banning-coronavirus-domai... http://domainincite.com/25364-go-here-to-help-fight-against-coronavirus-abus... Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com https://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow, R93 X265 ,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Bill Jouris via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Reply to: "b_jouris@yahoo.com" <b_jouris@yahoo.com> Date: Friday 27 March 2020 at 19:03 To: "JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org" <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>, Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>, "cpwg@icann.org" <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Basically, if you buy a domain name in the hopes of reselling it, that's a non-problem. Definitely not, in itself, abuse. An irritation, for some. And a potential problem. But not yet one. However, if you take one of those names, and use it to misrepresent yourself (specifically your site) as someone/something you are not, that is abuse. Also fraud. The question to my mind is, is that problem better addressed as DNS abuse? Or via the existing legal system as fraud? Which, I suppose, depends in part on how well the legal system can deal with fraud on an international level in an interconnected world. Bill Jouris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 8:03 AM, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
On 27/03/2020 19:03, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote:
Basically, if you buy a domain name in the hopes of reselling it, that's a non-problem. Definitely not, in itself, abuse. An irritation, for some. And a potential problem. But not yet one.
To people who watch domain name trends and registrations, this kind of thing happens all the time with news events. It is most apparent with celebrity deaths and there's generally a spike in registrations followed by many of the domain names being deleted a year later. There are some malicious registrations and there are industry backed operations to deal with these. However, most of the registrations will be monetised with PPC and affiliate advertising.
However, if you take one of those names, and use it to misrepresent yourself (specifically your site) as someone/something you are not, that is abuse. Also fraud. The question to my mind is, is that problem better addressed as DNS abuse? Or via the existing legal system as fraud? Which, I suppose, depends in part on how well the legal system can deal with fraud on an international level in an interconnected world. Where intellectual property rights have been infringed, there are mechanisms in place to deal with it. Where laws have been broken, there are procedures and in place for dealing with the problem. It is complicated by being multi-jurisdictional.
A lack of knowledge is dangerous. In rushing to categorise all such registrations as DNS abuse, it would make ALAC look clueless. It would be better to concentrate on actual DNS abuse (malware/spam/phishing/hacking etc) rather than trying to group all commerical activity that does not conform with a purist view as DNS abuse. The malware/spam/phishing aspect is far more dangerous than the clickbait registrations and the registrations for resale. Again, the level of domain names for resale in most TLDs is actually much lower than that the purists think. Even the 150K domain name survey on the .ORG earlier this month had the resale/auction percentage at just below 3%. With technological problems, the first response has to be technological and the second financial. The decision chain with legal action is often too long to make any difference and people still get hit by malware/spam/phishing. This first response is already happening with various industry groups being formed to deal with the problems. Legal action might be effective in the long term. Regards...jmcc -- ********************************************************** John McCormac * e-mail: jmcc@hosterstats.com MC2 * web: http://www.hosterstats.com/ 22 Viewmount * Domain Registrations Statistics Waterford * Domnomics - the business of domain names Ireland * https://amzn.to/2OPtEIO IE * Skype: hosterstats.com **********************************************************
Agree On 3/30/20, 8:41 AM, "CPWG on behalf of John McCormac" <cpwg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of jmcc@hosterstats.com> wrote: On 27/03/2020 19:03, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote: > Basically, if you buy a domain name in the hopes of reselling it, that's > a non-problem. Definitely not, in itself, abuse. An irritation, for > some. And a potential problem. But not yet one. To people who watch domain name trends and registrations, this kind of thing happens all the time with news events. It is most apparent with celebrity deaths and there's generally a spike in registrations followed by many of the domain names being deleted a year later. There are some malicious registrations and there are industry backed operations to deal with these. However, most of the registrations will be monetised with PPC and affiliate advertising. > However, if you take one of those names, and use it to misrepresent > yourself (specifically your site) as someone/something you are not, that > is abuse. Also fraud. The question to my mind is, is that problem > better addressed as DNS abuse? Or via the existing legal system as > fraud? Which, I suppose, depends in part on how well the legal system > can deal with fraud on an international level in an interconnected world. Where intellectual property rights have been infringed, there are mechanisms in place to deal with it. Where laws have been broken, there are procedures and in place for dealing with the problem. It is complicated by being multi-jurisdictional. A lack of knowledge is dangerous. In rushing to categorise all such registrations as DNS abuse, it would make ALAC look clueless. It would be better to concentrate on actual DNS abuse (malware/spam/phishing/hacking etc) rather than trying to group all commerical activity that does not conform with a purist view as DNS abuse. The malware/spam/phishing aspect is far more dangerous than the clickbait registrations and the registrations for resale. Again, the level of domain names for resale in most TLDs is actually much lower than that the purists think. Even the 150K domain name survey on the .ORG earlier this month had the resale/auction percentage at just below 3%. With technological problems, the first response has to be technological and the second financial. The decision chain with legal action is often too long to make any difference and people still get hit by malware/spam/phishing. This first response is already happening with various industry groups being formed to deal with the problems. Legal action might be effective in the long term. Regards...jmcc -- ********************************************************** John McCormac * e-mail: jmcc@hosterstats.com MC2 * web: http://www.hosterstats.com/ 22 Viewmount * Domain Registrations Statistics Waterford * Domnomics - the business of domain names Ireland * https://amzn.to/2OPtEIO IE * Skype: hosterstats.com ********************************************************** _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
What about . All the best SeB Sébastien Bachollet +33 6 07 66 89 33 sebicann@bachollet.fr @SebBach EURALO Chair
Le 27 mars 2020 à 16:03, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> a écrit :
It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea.
From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com <mailto:jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org <mailto:cpwg@icann.org>" <cpwg@icann.org <mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially
Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start.
Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks,
Joanna
W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze: Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang
Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben:
Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R
On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com <mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote:
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... <https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom...>
Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment?
Kindest regards,
Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg>
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_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg>
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI <https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI> TT: @KuleszaJ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg>
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Agree with John McCormac that we need to be careful not to refer to domain squatting AS DNS Abuse, that’s all. There’s definitely high concern about the more than 6k covid related domains that have been purchased but we’ll lose credibility by suggesting the mere registration of a name is DNS Abuse. We just have a list of URLs to watch for abuse, that’s all. From: Sebicann Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr> Date: Monday, March 30, 2020 at 12:18 PM To: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Cc: Sebicann Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr>, Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>, "cpwg@icann.org" <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially What about .[cid:~WRD0000.jpg] All the best SeB Sébastien Bachollet +33 6 07 66 89 33 sebicann@bachollet.fr<mailto:sebicann@bachollet.fr> @SebBach EURALO Chair Le 27 mars 2020 à 16:03, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> a écrit : It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com<mailto:jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>" <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start. Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks, Joanna W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze: Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben: Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
🤣👍 On 30.03.2020, at 21:17, Sebicann Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr<mailto:sebicann@bachollet.fr>> wrote: What about .[File:Smiley Olympics.gif - Wikimedia Commons] All the best SeB Sébastien Bachollet +33 6 07 66 89 33 sebicann@bachollet.fr<mailto:sebicann@bachollet.fr> @SebBach EURALO Chair Le 27 mars 2020 à 16:03, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> a écrit : It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com<mailto:jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>" <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start. Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks, Joanna W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze: Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben: Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I’m less concerned about the Olympics right now. They’ve got many means to sort this out because it’s an IP thing. It’s the covid stuff we need to watch carefully in my opinion. From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Monday, March 30, 2020 at 12:47 PM To: Sebicann Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr> Cc: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially 🤣👍 On 30.03.2020, at 21:17, Sebicann Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr<mailto:sebicann@bachollet.fr>> wrote: What about .[cid:~WRD0001.jpg] All the best SeB Sébastien Bachollet +33 6 07 66 89 33 sebicann@bachollet.fr<mailto:sebicann@bachollet.fr> @SebBach EURALO Chair Le 27 mars 2020 à 16:03, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> a écrit : It’s a bit like war profiteering. It’s disgusting but not really illegal and probably shouldn’t be. Buying up domains with a likely value isn’t itself DNS Abuse or even DNS “Misuse,” in ANY way. I would argue that these are domains more likely meant for resale than abuse although if the powers that be refuse to pay a premium, they might get used that way. Let’s be VERY careful about how we position ourselves on this lest we lose the modicum of credibility we have gained the past year. There’s a LOT of actual DNS Abuse taking advantage of this crisis, so let’s focus on that and continue in our efforts to combat systemic abuse, support predictive analytics, etc. This is a very dangerous path. If anything, it suggests that a restricted domain like .OLYMPICS would be a good idea. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Joanna Kulesza <jkuleszaicann@gmail.com<mailto:jkuleszaicann@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:00 AM To: "cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>" <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially Thank you for these guys. I strongly argue this is exactly the discssion we should be having, and not just within CPWG / AtLarge, but it could be a good place to start. One way of approaching this would be to look at all the "norms" already out there: legal, as you mention, Wolfgang, but also standards based, as have been named in previous threads. Finding a common ground between and among these (starting with the "used up" example of child porn or the always controversial IP protection) could be a start. Looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks, Joanna W dniu 27.03.2020 o 11:37, Wolfgang Kleinwächter pisze: Is the abuse "unfair", "tricky", "harmful" or "illegal"? Is this a "freedom" or "market" issue? If it is illegal (under domestic law or international law), it needs a response (and a procedure). This is a slippery slope. ICANN is not the "Content Police" of the Internet. But somebody has to look at such cases. Any idea? Wolfgang Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> hat am 27. März 2020 um 10:42 geschrieben: Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Kind regards, Joanna Kulesza ------------------- Joanna Kulesza, PhD University of Lodz, Poland ICANN ALAC Vice Chair SOI: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Joanna+Kulesza+SOI TT: @KuleszaJ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
This and similar discussions are a deflection from the IMO far greater issue of abuse. More-broadly, the speculative and rent-seeking activity such as what we're seeing here is not abuse of the DNS, indeed it is either tolerated or celebrated depending whether or not you're in the industry. However perceived on the insude, it contributes to the drip-drip-drip that is the erosion of public trust in the DNS. This erosion takes many forms: - opportunistic speculation like we see here - typosquatting - "premium domains" so that registries can get a piece of the speculative action, in turn keeping useful names from being used - category-word TLDs that don't verify domains as being in that category - category-word domains that don't go to the category but to the highest bidder member of that category - ccTLDs masquerading as generic while unshackled from even ICANN's meagre standards - Legitimate (but not trademark-breaking) domains being the source of misinformation - forcing legitimate new businesses to take non-optimal domains (like using a hyphens or an otherwise-unwanted alternate TLD) - TLDs of high social value such as .ORG are just themselves property to be shopped around - identity faking (including IDN character-set manipulation) - vectors for direct abuse such as phishing Esperieince with each of these -- by both Internet-based service providers and the public -- diminishes public trust. Only the last two are of interest to ICANN, and even then just because of pressure from trademark owners and LEAs respectively. The result, as others have heard from me time and time again, is that the utility of "memorable" domain names diminishes by the day, overtaken in public by search engines and social media landing pages and QR codes. Add in fiascos such as .XXX, .SU and now .ORG which also tell the public -- legitimate providers of Internet goods and services, and their patrons -- that the DNS, with a few ccTLD exceptions, is an entirely corrupt system aimed primarily at extracting value from the public rather than providing utility. Abuse of the DNS is not the issue; the DNS's abuse of the public is. - Evan
Some of you have heard my assessment of "gaming" in ICANN. If someone does something that is completely within the rules, and you LIKE what they are doing, it is called "innovation". If you don't like it, it is called "gaming". This is similar. I see no way to prevent this in rules that we or others can make. Alan At 2020-03-27 05:42 AM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
Both - your perception depends on which side you are. It is an investment for the buyer and an abuse for the victim. R
On 27.03.2020, at 09:29, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<mailto:ocl@gih.com>ocl@gih.com> wrote:
As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck.
Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment?
Kindest regards,
Olivier _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list <mailto:CPWG@icann.org>CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Why would it be considered “abuse”? If you use that term so broadly it becomes absolutely meaningless. I’d see it as opportunistic. There are much more serious issues to worry about. Like the real security threats that having millions of people working from home for the first time. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com https://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow, R93 X265 ,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Olivier Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Date: Friday 27 March 2020 at 08:30 To: "cpwg@icann.org" <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: [CPWG] Domain Name Abuse... potentially As the Tokyo 2020 Olympics are postponed to 2021, domain name pirates jumped on the occasion to make a quick buck. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/27/business/tokyo-2021-olympic-dom... Is this domain name abuse or domain name investment? Kindest regards, Olivier
participants (13)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Bill Jouris -
Evan Leibovitch -
Joanna Kulesza -
John McCormac -
Jonathan Zuck -
mail＠christopherwilkinson.eu CW -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond -
Roberto Gaetano -
Sebicann Bachollet -
Theo Geurts -
Wolfgang Kleinwächter