Odg: Re: Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear all, Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration. Thanks, Dusan Poslato iz Samsung MobileYuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> je napisao/la:Dear Dusan, To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael. One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone" --- Best, Yuri Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan,
Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work.
Rgds,
M.
From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear Yuriy, all,
I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević
On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Dear ALL,
Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel
I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan.
Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks.
--- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL,
At first - thanks for participation in conference.
Allow me to draw some preliminary results.
We are decided that:
1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material
Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
Last time I checked alphabets were different enough - and I don't see the point. Certainly there is 15% difference just in allowed code points between each pair of Belarus, Russian Ukrainian - why mix them up? Perhaps Bulgarian and Russian are similar - by alphabet - but every language is unique. On 15 дек. 2014, at 15:08, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> wrote:
Dear ALL,
As I understand, we begin to consolidate "small group" for Balkan region. I don't know how much should be "Balkan' small group". The participants must decide - who and how will consolidate in "small groups" for aims - points 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 of Plan.
Dusan, can I ask you help us to organize work "small group" for Balkan region?
Please, give your suggestions for quantity and working themes of "small group".
I think, we have enough power for Ukrainian "small group". What about working together with Russian and Belorussian, taking into account phonetic features? Alexey Sozonov, can I ask you help us on this way?
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 12:52:11 PM, you wrote:
Dear all,
Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration.
Thanks, Dusan
Poslato iz Samsung Mobile
Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> je napisao/la: Dear Dusan,
To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael.
One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone"
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan,
Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work.
Rgds,
M.
From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear Yuriy, all,
I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević
On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Dear ALL,
Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel
I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan.
Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks.
--- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL,
At first - thanks for participation in conference.
Allow me to draw some preliminary results.
We are decided that:
1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material
Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
Cyrillicgp mailing list Cyrillicgp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cyrillicgp
Well, you raise an interesting point. So, of course confusion between "families" (character sets - for example, all Cyrillic vs all Latin or all Greek) is an issue to be addressed. Whether an issue of, say, Russian-Bulgarian or Serbian-Macedonian confusion should be treated within our group - It does not seem to be a part of mandate but if it can be done "as a side job" - it may be helpful to specific communities, for example when developing allowed character sets for IDN ccTLDs. Although I would refrain from judgement and long discussion on this topic in this group to save our energy for more time-pressing issues. On 15 дек. 2014, at 17:33, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> wrote:
Dear Dmitry,
Very interesting aspect, if i understood correctly. Are there possible confusion variants for Code Points within full sets of Cyrillic alphabets? But if they exist - i mean variants of not-cross-confusion - would not it indifferent to the Cyrillic "as is", i.e. fully Cyrillic set? I think now - indifferent. But i' not sure... But something tell me - it's not so clear :-) Or should we consider existence only cross-confusions within sets of cross-scripts, i.e. Cyrillic-Greek, Cyrillic-Latin, Greek-Latin? And therefore, we should consider only cross-confusion variants.
Any way we must go to clear results and consensus views.
Or you mean another aspects? --- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 4:12:23 PM, you wrote:
Last time I checked alphabets were different enough - and I don't see the point. Certainly there is 15% difference just in allowed code points between each pair of Belarus, Russian Ukrainian - why mix them up?
Perhaps Bulgarian and Russian are similar - by alphabet - but every language is unique.
On 15 дек. 2014, at 15:08, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> wrote:
Re: Odg: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 Dear ALL,
As I understand, we begin to consolidate "small group" for Balkan region. I don't know how much should be "Balkan' small group". The participants must decide - who and how will consolidate in "small groups" for aims - points 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 of Plan.
Dusan, can I ask you help us to organize work "small group" for Balkan region?
Please, give your suggestions for quantity and working themes of "small group".
I think, we have enough power for Ukrainian "small group". What about working together with Russian and Belorussian, taking into account phonetic features? Alexey Sozonov, can I ask you help us on this way?
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 12:52:11 PM, you wrote:
Dear all,
Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration.
Thanks, Dusan
Poslato iz Samsung Mobile
Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> je napisao/la: Dear Dusan,
To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael.
One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone"
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan,
Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work.
Rgds,
M.
From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear Yuriy, all,
I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević
On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Dear ALL,
Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel
I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan.
Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks.
--- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL,
At first - thanks for participation in conference.
Allow me to draw some preliminary results.
We are decided that:
1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material
Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
Cyrillicgp mailing list Cyrillicgp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cyrillicgp
Dear all, I'm feeling responsible for "throwing the bomb" on the list, and I promise: "no more bombing". :) @Yuri - I can try to organize small group from the region, but - if this will be the only regional group... that's not what I meant. I will do whatever we all decide. Regards, Dušan On 15.12.2014 19:43, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Re: [Cyrillicgp] Odg: Re: Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 then accept the working hypothesis that our subject confusion between Cyrillic and Greek / Latin, not between "families" Cyrillic scripts and don't spend our energy :)
-- Yuri Monday, December 15, 2014, 8:28:44 PM, you wrote:
Well, you raise an interesting point. So, of course confusion between "families" (character sets - for example, all Cyrillic vs all Latin or all Greek) is an issue to be addressed.
Whether an issue of, say, Russian-Bulgarian or Serbian-Macedonian confusion should be treated within our group - It does not seem to be a part of mandate but if it can be done "as a side job" - it may be helpful to specific communities, for example when developing allowed character sets for IDN ccTLDs.
Although I would refrain from judgement and long discussion on this topic in this group to save our energy for more time-pressing issues.
On 15 дек. 2014, at 17:33, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info <mailto:yvk@uanic.info>> wrote:
Re: [Cyrillicgp] Odg: Re: Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 Dear Dmitry,
Very interesting aspect, if i understood correctly. Are there possible confusion variants for Code Points within full sets of Cyrillic alphabets? But if they exist - i mean variants of not-cross-confusion - would not it indifferent to the Cyrillic "as is", i.e. fully Cyrillic set? I think now - indifferent. But i' not sure... But something tell me - it's not so clear :-) Or should we consider existence only cross-confusions within sets of cross-scripts, i.e. Cyrillic-Greek, Cyrillic-Latin, Greek-Latin? And therefore, we should consider only cross-confusion variants.
Any way we must go to clear results and consensus views.
Or you mean another aspects? --- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 4:12:23 PM, you wrote:
Last time I checked alphabets were different enough - and I don't see the point. Certainly there is 15% difference just in allowed code points between each pair of Belarus, Russian Ukrainian - why mix them up?
Perhaps Bulgarian and Russian are similar - by alphabet - but every language is unique.
On 15 дек. 2014, at 15:08, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info <mailto:yvk@uanic.info>> wrote:
Re: Odg: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 Dear ALL,
As I understand, we begin to consolidate "small group" for Balkan region. I don't know how much should be "Balkan' small group". The participants must decide - who and how will consolidate in "small groups" for aims - points 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 of Plan.
Dusan, can I ask you help us to organize work "small group" for Balkan region?
Please, give your suggestions for quantity and working themes of "small group".
I think, we have enough power for Ukrainian "small group". What about working together with Russian and Belorussian, taking into account phonetic features? Alexey Sozonov, can I ask you help us on this way?
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 12:52:11 PM, you wrote:
Dear all,
Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration.
Thanks, Dusan
Poslato iz Samsung Mobile
Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info <mailto:yvk@uanic.info>> je napisao/la: Dear Dusan,
To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael.
One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone"
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan,
Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work.
Rgds,
M.
From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org <mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org <mailto:cyrillicgp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear Yuriy, all,
I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević
On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Dear ALL,
Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel
I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan.
Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks.
--- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL,
At first - thanks for participation in conference.
Allow me to draw some preliminary results.
We are decided that:
1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material
Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
_______________________________________________ Cyrillicgp mailing list Cyrillicgp@icann.org <mailto:cyrillicgp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cyrillicgp
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com
Hi Dusan, I feel obliged to mention, that the Bulgarian language also strictly uses the Cyrillic phonetically. In fact, the Cyrillic alphabet (and the Glagolitic alphabet before it) was created with this one purpose: to let people write what they speak (have their "own" alphabet). The closer similarities between the Bulgarian and Russian alphabets should not confuse us. As Russia is an later adopter of Cyrillic, their usage differs, but the two languages had undergone similar (possibly related) writing reform resulting in much more uniform and similar present-day alphabets. In similar time frame, Serbian had undergone different reform making its alphabet much different, but the alphabet usage remains similar to that in Bulgarian. I actually like your idea, because the way the language uses the alphabet leads to variants or not. Which is essentially what we need to research. In the case of Bulgarian, during similar work we have not been able to identify usage cases that could qualify as variants. We keep trying though :) Best Regards, Daniel Kalchev On 15.12.14 12:52, Dusan Stojicevic wrote:
Dear all,
Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration.
Thanks, Dusan
Poslato iz Samsung Mobile
Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> je napisao/la: Dear Dusan,
To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael.
One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone"
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan,
Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work.
Rgds,
M.
From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear Yuriy, all,
I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević
On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Dear ALL,
Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel
I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan.
Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks.
--- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL,
At first - thanks for participation in conference.
Allow me to draw some preliminary results.
We are decided that:
1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material
Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
_______________________________________________ Cyrillicgp mailing list Cyrillicgp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cyrillicgp
Hi, ALL I run into problem opening the current version of file in Dporbox https://www.dropbox.com/revisions/Cyrillic%20GP/Setting%20up%20the%20Cyrilli... Version 26 and I see, that current size of file 23.43 KB; size of previous Version 25 - 56.16 KB Anyone has the same problem or this only my point of trouble? Thanks. ---- Yuri
Hi Yuri, I restored the previous version. I guess it was my fault, as I edited it via Open Office. When I saved initially it was ok, but for some reason now it was cut. Best regards, Iliya On 17 December 2014 at 14:16, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> wrote:
Hi, ALL
I run into problem opening the current version of file in Dporbox
https://www.dropbox.com/revisions/Cyrillic%20GP/Setting%20up%20the%20Cyrilli... Version 26 and I see, that current size of file 23.43 KB; size of previous Version 25 - 56.16 KB Anyone has the same problem or this only my point of trouble?
Thanks.
---- Yuri
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Dear GP members, new version of MSR ( Maximal Starting Repertoire) is published for public comment at https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-04dec14-en.pdf The first few lines of our document are the statements what scripts are the subject of our GP. Looking at MSR -2 , Page 11 the script Cyrs 221 Cyrillic (Old Church Slavonic variant) is not included in MSR because it is not recommanded for use as an identifier in UAX#31 I am not sure shall we take into consideration in our work the script that is not contained in MSR. Regards Mirjana Tasic ________________________________________
I'd keep it for now provisionally as new MSR is not effective yet (public comment period means that changes are still possible.) Although practically it can make sense to de-prioritise scripts which are obsoleted in new version. On 20 дек. 2014, at 13:02, Mirjana Tasic <Mirjana.Tasic@rnids.rs> wrote:
Dear GP members,
new version of MSR ( Maximal Starting Repertoire) is published for public comment at
https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-04dec14-en.pdf
The first few lines of our document are the statements what scripts are the subject of our GP.
Looking at MSR -2 , Page 11 the script
Cyrs 221 Cyrillic (Old Church Slavonic variant)
is not included in MSR because it is not recommanded for use as an identifier in
UAX#31
I am not sure shall we take into consideration in our work the script that is not contained in MSR.
Regards
Mirjana Tasic
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Dear all, Happy New Year and I wish You all the best! @Daniel: I agree with You entirely and You touch exactly my point. @Yuriy: We can speak whenever You want on Skype. Thanks, Dušan On 17.12.2014 12:27, Daniel Kalchev wrote:
Hi Dusan,
I feel obliged to mention, that the Bulgarian language also strictly uses the Cyrillic phonetically. In fact, the Cyrillic alphabet (and the Glagolitic alphabet before it) was created with this one purpose: to let people write what they speak (have their "own" alphabet).
The closer similarities between the Bulgarian and Russian alphabets should not confuse us. As Russia is an later adopter of Cyrillic, their usage differs, but the two languages had undergone similar (possibly related) writing reform resulting in much more uniform and similar present-day alphabets. In similar time frame, Serbian had undergone different reform making its alphabet much different, but the alphabet usage remains similar to that in Bulgarian.
I actually like your idea, because the way the language uses the alphabet leads to variants or not. Which is essentially what we need to research.
In the case of Bulgarian, during similar work we have not been able to identify usage cases that could qualify as variants. We keep trying though :)
Best Regards, Daniel Kalchev
On 15.12.14 12:52, Dusan Stojicevic wrote:
Dear all,
Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration.
Thanks, Dusan
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Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info> je napisao/la: Dear Dusan,
To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael.
One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone"
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan, Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work. Rgds, M. From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 Dear Yuriy, all, I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote: Dear ALL, Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan. Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks. --- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL, At first - thanks for participation in conference. Allow me to draw some preliminary results. We are decided that: 1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
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participants (6)
-
Daniel Kalchev -
Dmitry Kohmanyuk -
Dusan Stojicevic -
Iliya Bazlyankov -
Mirjana Tasic -
Yuriy Kargapolov