Dear all, I'm feeling responsible for "throwing the bomb" on the list, and I promise: "no more bombing". :) @Yuri - I can try to organize small group from the region, but - if this will be the only regional group... that's not what I meant. I will do whatever we all decide. Regards, Dušan On 15.12.2014 19:43, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Re: [Cyrillicgp] Odg: Re: Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 then accept the working hypothesis that our subject confusion between Cyrillic and Greek / Latin, not between "families" Cyrillic scripts and don't spend our energy :)
-- Yuri Monday, December 15, 2014, 8:28:44 PM, you wrote:
Well, you raise an interesting point. So, of course confusion between "families" (character sets - for example, all Cyrillic vs all Latin or all Greek) is an issue to be addressed.
Whether an issue of, say, Russian-Bulgarian or Serbian-Macedonian confusion should be treated within our group - It does not seem to be a part of mandate but if it can be done "as a side job" - it may be helpful to specific communities, for example when developing allowed character sets for IDN ccTLDs.
Although I would refrain from judgement and long discussion on this topic in this group to save our energy for more time-pressing issues.
On 15 дек. 2014, at 17:33, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info <mailto:yvk@uanic.info>> wrote:
Re: [Cyrillicgp] Odg: Re: Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 Dear Dmitry,
Very interesting aspect, if i understood correctly. Are there possible confusion variants for Code Points within full sets of Cyrillic alphabets? But if they exist - i mean variants of not-cross-confusion - would not it indifferent to the Cyrillic "as is", i.e. fully Cyrillic set? I think now - indifferent. But i' not sure... But something tell me - it's not so clear :-) Or should we consider existence only cross-confusions within sets of cross-scripts, i.e. Cyrillic-Greek, Cyrillic-Latin, Greek-Latin? And therefore, we should consider only cross-confusion variants.
Any way we must go to clear results and consensus views.
Or you mean another aspects? --- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 4:12:23 PM, you wrote:
Last time I checked alphabets were different enough - and I don't see the point. Certainly there is 15% difference just in allowed code points between each pair of Belarus, Russian Ukrainian - why mix them up?
Perhaps Bulgarian and Russian are similar - by alphabet - but every language is unique.
On 15 дек. 2014, at 15:08, Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info <mailto:yvk@uanic.info>> wrote:
Re: Odg: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0 Dear ALL,
As I understand, we begin to consolidate "small group" for Balkan region. I don't know how much should be "Balkan' small group". The participants must decide - who and how will consolidate in "small groups" for aims - points 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 of Plan.
Dusan, can I ask you help us to organize work "small group" for Balkan region?
Please, give your suggestions for quantity and working themes of "small group".
I think, we have enough power for Ukrainian "small group". What about working together with Russian and Belorussian, taking into account phonetic features? Alexey Sozonov, can I ask you help us on this way?
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 12:52:11 PM, you wrote:
Dear all,
Sense of Macedonian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is - one letter one sound. Above that, there are another similarities in a language. Personaly, I do not know the Belorusian cyrilic, but if this is a sense of this alphabet as well - we can cross our results with them. My suggestion was not only phonetics, maybe I was not so clear in my previous mail. My suggestion was that crossing results in early stage where the cyrilic scripts are similar could produce better results. I was only giving the example with those three countries. I am aware of point 3.5, but to me - it is to far. And, of course, this was only a suggestion, and for consideration.
Thanks, Dusan
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Yuriy Kargapolov <yvk@uanic.info <mailto:yvk@uanic.info>> je napisao/la: Dear Dusan,
To my mind, there are no problems for union of members from Balkan region in a "small group", if you decide that it makes sense. If someone of GP members will decide that it makes sense for join to any "small group" - ok; I think we should welcome participation of experts in working process. Of course, taking in account comment of Michael.
One remark. in text (point 3.5) should be "Code Point Level Analysis for Cyrillic Script for Inclusion in LGR for the Root Zone"
--- Best, Yuri
Monday, December 15, 2014, 7:19:31 AM, you wrote:
Dear Dusan,
Belorussian language is definitely phonetic, in the same sense as Serbian. Russian is mixed. So it means that you proposal may not work.
Rgds,
M.
From: cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org <mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:cyrillicgp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:44 AM To: cyrillicgp@icann.org <mailto:cyrillicgp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Cyrillicgp] Working Plan of Cyrillic GP. Draft 1.0
Dear Yuriy, all,
I think that plan is very good, but I have one suggestion. Knowing Macedonian, Bulgarian and of course, Serbian scripts, I noticed that Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian are phonetic ones (and others are not, as far as I know). Maybe we can consider one middle step with crossing the results of first step between small national WG. This step can be after 1.3 and before 1.4, and could be very useful for small national WG in cases of similar scripts (like Serbian, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonian). I see that we can form some others groups of similar scripts (Bulgaria, Russia...)...
Regards, Dušan Stojičević
On 13.12.2014 15:05, Yuriy Kargapolov wrote:
Dear ALL,
Pls, find the first draft of Working plan Cyrillic GP. Plan was prepared on basis of methodological assistance from Arabic Script GP. Idea of Plan: 1. First step - identify "national" cases of confusion Code Points relative to the Greek/Latin scripts and forming common confusion tables for Cyrillic 2. Second step - the work on the principles of inclusion, exclusion and deferral for some Cyrillic Code Points and formation options for Variants of including letters in LGR 3. Third step - the work on LGR for Cyrillic script and prepare them for transferring to the Integration Panel
I'm not sure that took into account all notes, comments and suggestions - please make adjustments of plan.
Vladimir, sorry for not answering email, but I hope that criteria for dividing and the function of small group will be clear from text of the Plan.
Also allow me remind about 15th Dec, if somebody not in time, pls, inform - maybe we will move the timeline.
Thanks.
--- Best, Yuri
Wednesday, December 10, 2014, 3:28:12 PM, you wrote:
Dear ALL,
At first - thanks for participation in conference.
Allow me to draw some preliminary results.
We are decided that:
1) filling of the tables in the document should be finished before December 15. Pls, keep your attention - if you have any questions about completing the tables - ask me. 2) Chair of the Cyrillic GP (Ch-CGP) will prepare a draft work plan on December 12-13. Please send your suggestions for work plan. I would like to suggest - plan is document in which we can make changes after a joint relevant decision. The plan should consist the subjects of work, milestones and timelines. 3) On the basis of plan points we will create a small working groups. Scope of the small groups activity will depend on the content of the work plan.
I might miss something, pls, any material
Once again, thanks for participation and sorry for some of technical troubles.
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