I have to agree with my previous intuition, transcripts are a must and I don’t see a compelling argument against it. Chers, Martín
On 1 Jul 2018, at 09:58, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
First, I agree with Ayden. Second, why are we focused on this rather trivial cost cutting exercise? Did we ever focus on any such budget exercise when we did the RDS group? No, indeed we did not, we ragged the puck for well over a year and a half and made so little progress that the Board felt justified in imposing an interim policy. To me, this entire exercise is already under a cloud of suspicion in terms of the legitimacy of the process in a so-called multi-stakeholder community, partly because of that and for other reasons too tedious for me to enumerate. Omitting the transcripts, which enable everybody to follow the process without having to listen to [tedious] mp3s, is a huge mistake. In my opinion, the lack of transparency of the EWG on which I served also cast an unnecessary cloud of doubt over a lot of otherwise good work, let us not repeat that mistake in this exercise.
ICANN needs to demonstrate its accountability in its processes. Transcripts are a cheap way of doing that.
Stephanie Perrin On 2018-07-01 05:26, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
I believe the $300 figure is for rush recordings; I was advised several months ago that it was $75/hour for less urgent transcripts that take 48-72 hours to prepare.
In any case, the community is not responsible for procurement and we do not have a budget to work with. We are only being asked to identify resources required, and an essential resource _is_ meeting transcription for all calls.
It has been past practice to use transcription in the GNSO’s PDPs, the CCWG, and the Review Teams. This EPDP is of no less interest to the community and of no less importance.
Accountability demands transparency, and transparency requires thorough and easily retrievable records. ICANN’s commitment to transparency in its bylaws was not incumbent on a price point.
Ayden
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 07:15, Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br <mailto:rubensk@nic.br>> wrote:
Marika,
While you described what Org usually have done, there is no need actual IT need to do it this way. Transcripts could be made based on other recordings, including AC ones.
Rubens
On 30 Jun 2018, at 19:34, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org <mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>> wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the costs for transcripts are approx. 300 USD per hour. It should be taken into account though that if transcripts are expected with the current quality and turnaround time, it also means that all calls will need to be held on a Verizon phone bridge which is more expensive than a non-operator PGI call which is currently used for smaller calls such as sub-team or work track meetings for which no transcripts are requested. As such, if you decide to request that transcripts are made available for all EPDP calls, this will need to be called out in the ‘resources expected to be available’ section as it is not part of the standard services.
Best regards,
Marika
From: Epdp-dt <epdp-dt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Austin, Donna via Epdp-dt" <epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>> Reply-To: Donna Austin <Donna.Austin@team.neustar <mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar>> Date: Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 16:15 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Cc: "epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>" <epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Epdp-dt] Working Methods
I agree, transcripts don’t equate to transparency.
It would be helpful to understand the cost and make a judgment about benefit v cost.
I think we’ve identified a number of benefits and we should also take into account that we expect alternates for the EPDP to keep up to date with events and it seems to me that transcripts could be the most efficient way to do this.
Donna
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 30, 2018, at 2:04 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
Ayden Transparency does not mean transcripts. If you want to argue in favour of transcripts you隆炉re welcome to do so, but there隆炉s a big difference
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=D...> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwQF...> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwQFoQ&c...> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Ayden F篓娄rdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 3:45:19 PM To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight Cc: Stephanie Perrin; epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Epdp-dt] Working Methods
While I think it is reasonable to ask how much transcription costs, ultimately transparency is an institutional concept mandated by our own Operating Procedures and a conceptual component of the principle of democracy. The legitimation of any authority, including that of ICANN, requires decisions that are reached, including the political and non-political objectives that feed into these decisions, to be properly understood and withstand scrutiny. Scrutiny is impossible without detailed and accessible records. This is negotiable only up to a point. We can negotiate over who does the transcripts or how long they take to produce (and I don't think they need to be fast-tracked ordinarily), but we cannot negotiate over whether transcripts are produced.
This EPDP will attract a great level of interest and scrutiny from across the ICANN community. I think it is of the highest importance for the credibility of the GNSO that our agenda setting and decision making processes be seen as being as transparent as possible, particularly in light of the attention that this EPDP will generate.
隆陋Ayden
漏漏漏 漏漏漏 漏Original Message 漏漏 漏漏漏 漏 漏 On 30 June 2018 10:38 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
We don隆炉t have an actual cost though, do we?
Mr Michele Neylon
https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=D...> https://michele.blog <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog&d=DwMFoQ&c...> Intl. +353 (0)59 9183072 Sent from mobile so usual disclaimers about typos etc apply
On 30 Jun 2018, at 14:29, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> There are so many advantages...transcripts are searchable, you can do analytics on them with easily available tools (Discourse analysis, e.g.), you can copy and put it through google translate....a matter that is rather basic in terms of fundamental fairness to non-english language speakers. I think for the amount of money we are blowing on belated compliance with DP law, this is peanuts. > cheers Stephanie > > On 2018-06-29 14:16, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote: >> Oh yes! Specially for timing, I can read insanely faster than I have to listen to a recording (even if I only have to listen to it once). >> >> Martin >> >>> On 29 Jun 2018, at 07:00, Austin, Donna <Donna.Austin@team.neustar <mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar>> wrote: >>> >>> A question for our multi-lingual colleagues. Are transcripts better/easier for non-English speakers to review a meeting than listening to the recording? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> If the transcription was 隆掳cost effective隆卤 then I wouldn隆炉t have as much of an issue with it, but I隆炉d prefer we had some visibility on costs before we make a commitment to it >>>> >>>> A lot of calls / meetings have a lot of spurious discussions which aren隆炉t adding any value. Of course there is value in the meetings overall, but you should be able to get that from the minutes / notes of the meetings >>>> https://youtu.be/z_tiqlBFjbk <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_z-5FtiqlBFjbk&...> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mr Michele Neylon >>>> Blacknight Solutions >>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>>> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=D...> >>>> http://blacknight.blog/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwMGa...> >>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&...> >>>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwMGaQ&c...> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Carlos Raul Gutierrez <carlosraul@gutierrez.se <mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se>> >>>> Date: Thursday 28 June 2018 at 16:19 >>>> To: "mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>" <mpsilvavalent@gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com>> >>>> Cc: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>>, "epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>" < epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Epdp-dt] Working Methods >>>> >>>> All cloud services offer now voice to text, and ti takes just a little bit of money and a few seconds of ai computational power: >>>> >>>> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-transcribe-scalable-and-accurate-aut... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aws.amazon.com_blogs_aw...> >>>> >>>> The problem is not the transcription, but the process ICANN (still) uses for transcriptions >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Carlos Ra篓虏 l Guti篓 娄rrez >>>> carlosraul@gutierrez.se <mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se> >>>> +506 8837 7176 >>>> Aparatado 1571-1000 >>>> COSTA RICA >>>> >>>> >>>> El 2018-06-28 16:10, Martin Pablo Silva Valent escribi篓庐: >>>>> I agree with Ayden that transcript are a useful feature for this kind of work at icann. And we already have automated transcript as far as I know, we can ask for opinon to staff towards cost, but is not intuitive to me that transcripts are not worthy in such a special case. The value for transparency and the ability to read debate is also very useful. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Mart篓陋n >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 19:29 Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: >>>>>> Ayden >>>>>> >>>>>> I disagree with the transcription of all meetings. The costs involved with that are disproportionately high and ICANN funds would be better directed elsewhere >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with most of your other points. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Michele >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon >>>>>> Blacknight Solutions >>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >>>>>> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=D...> >>>>>> http://blacknight.blog/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwMGa...> >>>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >>>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >>>>>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&...> >>>>>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwMGaQ&c...> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Epdp-dt <epdp-dt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden F 篓娄 rdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>>>> Reply-To: Ayden F 篓娄 rdeline <icann@ferdeline.com <mailto:icann@ferdeline.com>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday 27 June 2018 at 17:34 >>>>>> To: "epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>" < epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt@icann.org>> >>>>>> Subject: [Epdp-dt] Working Methods >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to request several revisions be made to the EPDP Working Methods please: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) All meetings must be recorded and transcribed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please revise this text from: >>>>>> >>>>>> In addition to the standard services provided to GNSO PDP Working Groups such as policy staff support, mailing lists and regular conference calls, including recording and transcription where needed (frequency and duration to be decided by EPDP team), the EPDP team will need appropriate support to: >>>>>> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> >>>>>> All calls of the EPDP must be recorded and transcribed, and said recordings and call transcriptions must be publicly accessible from the ICANN website. Standard support offered to GNSO PDP Working Groups, including but not limited to the provision of a wiki space, archived mailing lists, and conference call facilities, will be required. In addition, the EPDP will need appropriate support to: >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Google Docs may only be used in conjunction with Google Vault. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please revise the text from: >>>>>> >>>>>> the EPDP Team should consider which tools provide the best flexibility to facilitate online collaboration, such as the wiki and Google docs. >>>>>> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> >>>>>> the EPDP Team should consider which tools provide the best flexibility to facilitate online collaboration, but it must do so in accordance with the principles of accountability and transparency that are so important to the GNSO. If Google Docs or other G Suite products are used, it must be used in conjunction with Google Vault, which logs data for archival purposes. Similarly, if other tools are used, they may be used only if they preserve information to a level that meets or exceeds eDiscovery standards in California, being the location of ICANN's headquarters. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) Translation of executive summary and recommendations of the initial report for public comment, and of the entire final report, into ICANN's official languages. >>>>>> >>>>>> Suggested text: >>>>>> >>>>>> The substantive work of the EPDP must be translated into ICANN's official languages in order to provide non-English-fluent stakeholders with an equal level of access to review the work of the EPDP. For the initial report(s), this must consist of the executive summary and recommendations, and for the final report, this must be a translation of the entire report. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>> Ayden F篓娄rdeline >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Epdp-dt mailing list >>>>>> Epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt@icann.org> >>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Epdp-dt mailing list >>>>> Epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt@icann.org> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_epdp-2Ddt&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=NcAFBsM3QosMQBljp1z92iaJHH5KK4oskW3NvlC2MAs&e=>_______________________________________________ >>>> Epdp-dt mailing list >>>> Epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt@icann.org> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li... <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Epdp-dt mailing list >> Epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt@icann.org> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Epdp-dt mailing list > Epdp-dt@icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_li...>
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