They say the older you get the less sleep you need. My personal observation, based only to the limited sample of myself and my beloved wife, would say the contrary, but never mind. Happy birthday, and get enough sleep to get you up and running for the tasks that EURALO expects you to do! Is the budget committee going to make a statement on how much sleep time is allowed to the EURALO Chair in the EURALO budget? Cheers, R. (back home, unloaded the Aziza, catching up with email, dying for a shower, sorry for having missed "the" meeting for 2013, but my trip has been planned for more than a year, well before the schedule of the GA - and my wife would have killed me if I did shorten it to fly to Lisbon)

-----Messaggio originale----- Da: euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss- bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Nigel Hickson Inviato: mercoledì 26 giugno 2013 11:13 A: Discussion for At-Large Europe Cc: Annette Mühlberg; ICANN At-Large Staff; Oliver Passek Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Lisbon GA meeting minutes

Wolf

Happy birthday indeed and hope you get some sleep!

Best

Nigel

On 6/26/13 8:49 AM, "EMP" <info@euromediaplatform.org> wrote:

...

Dear Wolf,

Happy birthday to you and best wishes!

Dear Jordi, dear Manuel,

Thank you very-very much for your minutes - your volunteering was of crucial importance!

Dear Jordi,

Can I ask you to remove the remark

*There is no majority required as stated by EURALO¹s bylaws (11.18 and 11.20), a second round (run-off vote) will be held online in a few days after the meeting.*

from GA minutes? This point was raised in public only the day after GA, and that provokes a lot of problems.

I would like also to repeat my proposition regarding Working Group/Advisory Councils.

Just now we have 8 voting members of EURALO Board:

Mr. Frans Gerbosch* - ISOC Belgium

Mr. Yrjö Länsipuro* - ISOC Finland

Mr. Jordi Iparraguirre* - ISOC Catalonia

Mr. William Drake* - Ind. member

Ms. Annette Mühlberg* - NNM Germany

Ms. Desiree Miloshevic* - Ind. member

Mr. Manuel Schneider* - Wikimedia CH + A

Mr. Lutz Donnerhacke* - FITUG

I propose for each of them to choose his or her own priority and chair respective direction of future work.

Besides, we discussed the need to re-write existing EURALO By-laws. This idea was supported by Yrjo, and it would be great, if he could chair this working group (I would be happy to participate in it).

From my side, I propose to create WG/AC on capacity building/team building. I would be happy to see everyone from you in it, but I would like to invite in person Lutz (to avoid any problems with privacy) and Manuel (to explore better tools of on-line communication).

My last proposition - to enhance national and thematic components during our monthly teleconference calls.

For example, it would be great, if anybody from Germany (the country with maximal number of ALSes) can prepare short presentation on national priorities on IG, on achievements and problems. It would be extremely interesting both regarding future EuroDIG, which will be hosted by Berlin, and regarding latest developments in this countries (new law on copyright, report on IG for German Parliament and so on).

Dear Annette,

Is it possible to ask you to prepare this presentation?

And, of course, regarding thematic discussion, it would be great to discuss first of all privacy concerns, especially from the point of view of future work on EURALO capacity/team building.

Dear Lutz,

Could you please take the responsibility for this presentation on yourselves?

I want to support Manuel's proposition to use more actively Wiki space, but, of course, we have to keep in mind Werner's concern (regarding Android).

Best regards,

Oksana

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:

...

Dear all,

as some of you have asked for this already, attached please find a copy of the meeting minutes from our Lisbon GA last week with an updated version of the thematic priorities (incl. additional names).

Thanks again to Jordi who has taken all relevant notes from the GA to make the minutes quickly available (what would have been the job of the incumbent Secretariat BTW). Silvia will upload the minutes on our Workspace these days.

Kind regards, Wolf

EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

Dear Wolf, After GA I was in the same room with you for some hours. I really received a lot of congratulations for my election, in part from Ukraine. Moreover, I withdrew my application for Buenos-Aires as a fellow, becouse I understood, that the election is done. What I am talking about? Is it surprise for me that you can not look at my eyes directly and you can not share with me what "was sensed during the meeting and intensively discussed afterwards at the Outreach reception already"? It was not said during GA. It can not be in minutes. Thank you very much for your understanding, Best regards, Oksana On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:10 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:

Hi Oksana,

first of all, thanks for your kind wishes.

Regarding your suggestion on the minutes "to remove" the sentence you quoted, this is an important reference to the Bylaws and non-validity of the first voting round (and not only as you said, "that provokes a lot of problems"). Some of the members present in the room realized during the meeting already that this voting result doesn't match respective Bylaws requirements. And as we mentioned during the extraordinary Board meeting on Thursday night, we (incl. Olivier who was chairing this part) didn't ask for an immediate time-out because of the VIP guests in the room.

Brief: This non-conformability of the voting result with our Bylaws was not "raised in public only the day after GA", as you said, but was sensed during the meeting and intensively discussed afterwards at the Outreach reception already. That's why we convened this extraordinary Board meeting. And to be on the safe side, we assigned some Board members with an *in-depth Bylaw check* on Thursday night. The outcome of their check confirmed what we sensed before and the need of a "run-off vote" what Staff started to prepare immediately afterwards (what was opened yesterday Online).

What you suggested "to remove" is a *factual finding* (even if finally confirmed after the meeting) that needs to be mentioned in the minutes! Otherwise this part of the minutes would read as this voting result would have been valid.

For the rest of your proposals, I leave this to the new Board for further consideration.

Best regards, Wolf

EMP wrote Tue, 25 Jun 2013 23:49:

...

Dear Wolf,

Happy birthday to you and best wishes!

Dear Jordi, dear Manuel,

Thank you very-very much for your minutes - your volunteering was of crucial importance!

Dear Jordi,

Can I ask you to remove the remark

*There is no majority required as stated by EURALO’s bylaws (11.18 and 11.20), a second round (run-off vote) will be held online in a few days after the meeting.*

from GA minutes? This point was raised in public only the day after GA, and that provokes a lot of problems.

I would like also to repeat my proposition regarding Working Group/Advisory Councils.

Just now we have 8 voting members of EURALO Board:

Mr. Frans Gerbosch* - ISOC Belgium

Mr. Yrjö Länsipuro* - ISOC Finland

Mr. Jordi Iparraguirre* - ISOC Catalonia

Mr. William Drake* - Ind. member

Ms. Annette Mühlberg* - NNM Germany

Ms. Desiree Miloshevic* - Ind. member

Mr. Manuel Schneider* - Wikimedia CH + A

Mr. Lutz Donnerhacke* - FITUG

I propose for each of them to choose his or her own priority and chair respective direction of future work.

Besides, we discussed the need to re-write existing EURALO By-laws. This idea was supported by Yrjo, and it would be great, if he could chair this working group (I would be happy to participate in it).

From my side, I propose to create WG/AC on capacity building/team building. I would be happy to see everyone from you in it, but I would like to invite in person Lutz (to avoid any problems with privacy) and Manuel (to explore better tools of on-line communication).

My last proposition - to enhance national and thematic components during our monthly teleconference calls.

For example, it would be great, if anybody from Germany (the country with maximal number of ALSes) can prepare short presentation on national priorities on IG, on achievements and problems. It would be extremely interesting both regarding future EuroDIG, which will be hosted by Berlin, and regarding latest developments in this countries (new law on copyright, report on IG for German Parliament and so on).

Dear Annette,

Is it possible to ask you to prepare this presentation?

And, of course, regarding thematic discussion, it would be great to discuss first of all privacy concerns, especially from the point of view of future work on EURALO capacity/team building.

Dear Lutz,

Could you please take the responsibility for this presentation on yourselves?

I want to support Manuel's proposition to use more actively Wiki space, but, of course, we have to keep in mind Werner's concern (regarding Android).

Best regards,

Oksana

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net wrote:

...

Dear all,

as some of you have asked for this already, attached please find a copy of the meeting minutes from our Lisbon GA last week with an updated version of the thematic priorities (incl. additional names).

Thanks again to Jordi who has taken all relevant notes from the GA to make the minutes quickly available (what would have been the job of the incumbent Secretariat BTW). Silvia will upload the minutes on our Workspace these days.

Kind regards, Wolf

EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

Absolutely. And legal advise also. Best, Oksana On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:

May I suggest that we leave any further consideration and final decision on this matter to experienced Board members and At-Large Staff (as meeting minutes are not a "wish list")!

Best, Wolf

EMP wrote Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:55:

...

Dear Wolf,

After GA I was in the same room with you for some hours. I really received a lot of congratulations for my election, in part from Ukraine. Moreover, I withdrew my application for Buenos-Aires as a fellow, becouse I understood, that the election is done.

What I am talking about? Is it surprise for me that you can not look at my eyes directly and you can not share with me what "was sensed during the meeting and intensively discussed afterwards at the Outreach reception already"?

It was not said during GA. It can not be in minutes.

Thank you very much for your understanding, Best regards, Oksana

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 7:10 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net wrote:

...

Hi Oksana,

first of all, thanks for your kind wishes.

Regarding your suggestion on the minutes "to remove" the sentence you quoted, this is an important reference to the Bylaws and non-validity of the first voting round (and not only as you said, "that provokes a lot of problems"). Some of the members present in the room realized during the meeting already that this voting result doesn't match respective Bylaws requirements. And as we mentioned during the extraordinary Board meeting on Thursday night, we (incl. Olivier who was chairing this part) didn't ask for an immediate time-out because of the VIP guests in the room.

Brief: This non-conformability of the voting result with our Bylaws was not "raised in public only the day after GA", as you said, but was sensed during the meeting and intensively discussed afterwards at the Outreach reception already. That's why we convened this extraordinary Board meeting. And to be on the safe side, we assigned some Board members with an *in-depth Bylaw check* on Thursday night. The outcome of their check confirmed what we sensed before and the need of a "run-off vote" what Staff started to prepare immediately afterwards (what was opened yesterday Online).

What you suggested "to remove" is a *factual finding* (even if finally confirmed after the meeting) that needs to be mentioned in the minutes! Otherwise this part of the minutes would read as this voting result would have been valid.

For the rest of your proposals, I leave this to the new Board for further consideration.

Best regards, Wolf

EMP wrote Tue, 25 Jun 2013 23:49:

...

Dear Wolf,

Happy birthday to you and best wishes!

Dear Jordi, dear Manuel,

Thank you very-very much for your minutes - your volunteering was of crucial importance!

Dear Jordi,

Can I ask you to remove the remark

*There is no majority required as stated by EURALO’s bylaws (11.18 and 11.20), a second round (run-off vote) will be held online in a few days after the meeting.*

from GA minutes? This point was raised in public only the day after GA, and that provokes a lot of problems.

I would like also to repeat my proposition regarding Working Group/Advisory Councils.

Just now we have 8 voting members of EURALO Board:

Mr. Frans Gerbosch* - ISOC Belgium

Mr. Yrjö Länsipuro* - ISOC Finland

Mr. Jordi Iparraguirre* - ISOC Catalonia

Mr. William Drake* - Ind. member

Ms. Annette Mühlberg* - NNM Germany

Ms. Desiree Miloshevic* - Ind. member

Mr. Manuel Schneider* - Wikimedia CH + A

Mr. Lutz Donnerhacke* - FITUG

I propose for each of them to choose his or her own priority and chair respective direction of future work.

Besides, we discussed the need to re-write existing EURALO By-laws. This idea was supported by Yrjo, and it would be great, if he could chair this working group (I would be happy to participate in it).

From my side, I propose to create WG/AC on capacity building/team building. I would be happy to see everyone from you in it, but I would like to invite in person Lutz (to avoid any problems with privacy) and Manuel (to explore better tools of on-line communication).

My last proposition - to enhance national and thematic components during our monthly teleconference calls.

For example, it would be great, if anybody from Germany (the country with maximal number of ALSes) can prepare short presentation on national priorities on IG, on achievements and problems. It would be extremely interesting both regarding future EuroDIG, which will be hosted by Berlin, and regarding latest developments in this countries (new law on copyright, report on IG for German Parliament and so on).

Dear Annette,

Is it possible to ask you to prepare this presentation?

And, of course, regarding thematic discussion, it would be great to discuss first of all privacy concerns, especially from the point of view of future work on EURALO capacity/team building.

Dear Lutz,

Could you please take the responsibility for this presentation on yourselves?

I want to support Manuel's proposition to use more actively Wiki space, but, of course, we have to keep in mind Werner's concern (regarding Android).

Best regards,

Oksana

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Wolf Ludwig < wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net wrote:

...

Dear all,

as some of you have asked for this already, attached please find a copy of the meeting minutes from our Lisbon GA last week with an updated version of the thematic priorities (incl. additional names).

Thanks again to Jordi who has taken all relevant notes from the GA to make the minutes quickly available (what would have been the job of the incumbent Secretariat BTW). Silvia will upload the minutes on our Workspace these days.

Kind regards, Wolf

EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss

Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org