Werner: All the information you are asking for has been posted several times over the past few days to this list. It is also posted at the EURALO website at www.euralo.org. Since you have referenced the URL below on the wiki - which www.euralo.org goes to - I can see you have access to it. All the information about everything that is happening is being sent to all the ALSes, including you - and it always has been. You are not missing anything unless your email server has problems, or your spam filter is catching emails from the list, or for some other techical reason; since you are responding here you must be getting some of it. The timetable on the wiki page you reference is what was agreed in Lisbon. For other comments, see below. On 31/03/07, Werner Hülsmann <werner@euralo.eu> wrote:
Hello Nick,
I'm the official representativ of the ALS "Deutsche Vereinigung für Datenschutz (DVD) e.V.). My official E-Mail-Adresse is huelsmann@datenschutzverein.de .
At this official E-Mail-Adresse there was till now neiter an information about the results of Lisbon nor an information about the timetable for the next steps! How can this be?
As previously mentioned it has been repeatedly sent to this list.
I wasn't able to take part in Lisbon because I had to do my business. Sorry for that, but I've also to earn some money because all my work for the DVD and for EurALO isn't paied.
So I need some more informations! Please send them to all the official contacts of teh ALSes.
This has already been done.
It can't be, that only the ALSes, which signed the MoU already can take part on the next step. At first, there must be enough time for als ALSes to sign the MoU.
You are right - it cannot be that way. And, in fact, it isn't. As previously stated, several times today alone, ALL ALSes are AUTOMATICALLY a part of the RALO. Because
of Eastern the timetable mentioned on https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?nominations_2007 is to short.
This is what was agreed to in Lisbon. I'm sorry you weren't there - it was a great meeting.
On the Page https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?lisbon_icann_meeting is no link to the bylaws and the MoU. Why not?
Because it is available from so many places on that wiki - including I think all the meeting pages under the Lisbon Meetings Page, and including in very large type on the FRONT page.
Please take care that all ALSes are well informed about the results of Lisbon!
I have - we all have - and they are. You have not missed anything.
On 31 Mar 2007 at 16:24, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
May I just encourage everyone not to abandon the consensus process agreed in Lisbon. It was agreed and it isn't a very good precedent if something that a large body of ALSes all found agreement on is immediately proposed to be discarded before it has even had a chance to work - if more time is needed for some of the steps, that will become clear, and I'm sure that all parties will see the sense of extending things and it will be seen as the natural thing to do.
I certainly understand your points about the amount of time - but this was considered quite carefully by your colleagues and discarding elements of that agreement would likely produce the same negative by-products which you wish to avoid...
On 31/03/07, Wolfgang Kleinwächter <wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
Tahnks Vittorio,
I think the differendes can be worked out constructively.
With regard to some procedures I think that all ASLs has to be involved and not only the minority who had been able to sit in the room in Lisbon. There should be a formal information to all recognized ASLs with a clear and fair timeline and a chance to comment what to do next. Do not rush. There is no need for a hurry. If we have the elections finished before San Juan, this is okay. Nothing will collapse if we take us more time.
With regard to the April 14 this is absolutely too short. It is now Easter and a lot of potential candidates are in vacation. So this has to be reconsidered. I propose May 15, This would give all parties to prepare better for an fair and transparent process. Otherwise you provoke another round of heated debate, conflicts and mistrust of people who had been not involved and will think this is another big conspiracy.
So we NEED the involvement of all ALS to get he credibility an EURALO should have. And credibility is onw of the highest value for such an Internet jsers organisation.
BTW, thanks for proposing me as a potential EURALO Board member. Unfortunately due to another overload of work, the Summer School, GIGANET, Studienkreis and something else I will not be in a position to take an additonal function. I will concentrate my energy and efforts to get the thing started because I feel - as a veteran in this discussion - ALM and EURALO as part of my personal responsibility towards the community. But with regard to leadership positions in this new boday it is time for the European youngster to take the lead, in particular we need also young energietic woman and ALS andindividuals from outside the EU to get a better balance, to grow and to make the voices of the European Internet usaer5s in the ICANN context visible.
Best
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: Vittorio Bertola [mailto:vb@bertola.eu] Gesendet: Sa 31.03.2007 15:25 An: Wolfgang Kleinwächter Cc: Discussion for At-Large Europe Betreff: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Lisbon Follow Up
Wolfgang Kleinwächter ha scritto:
Dear list,
back home here are some conclusions, comments and proposals for further actions and next steps:
1. Regardless of the controversial discussion and the heated debate the outcome of the Lisbon meeting is a good step forward and we should build on this
I agree, and let me say that I really appreciated the way that all of us, and specifically those who were most attached to the issues of incorporation and individual membership such as you and Christoph, worked together to reach an acceptable compromise.
For the process you propose, I would like to stick to the process we agreed - if I remember well you were not in the meeting on Tuesday morning, so I am reattaching the document that was approved. There is not much difference, except that the idea is to first elect the Board and ALAC reps (so that I can finally leave my seat...), then let the EURALO Board instruct the discussion. Of course the EURALO Board could then delegate a working group - in any case I think that you necessarily have to be in this discussion (you'd be a good EURALO Board member anyway, and I think that the people who were most active in the discussions up to here are natural candidates for a strong initial EURALO Board, that can ensure a good continuation of the process).
So I'd build on the timeline we agreed, and if we can have a EURALO Board elected by May 10 - and maybe work in parallel to develop a proposal on the open issues - we could still try to have a virtual GA at mid June, just before Puerto Rico. It really depends on how hard we work.
About the last two points:
4. the formal nomination process for the EURALO board members and ALAC reps should start after Easter.
In Lisbon, we agreed to have nominations between tomorrow and April 14, and to have the Chair elected by the Board. I would not reopen the discussion until we really feel the need to (and we approved the Bylaws and procedure in Lisbon, so what do we do if someone complains?).
BTW - There are not so many participants to the initial vote, so I would expect that it won't be a vote on a huge scale; and that's reasonable for a bootstrapping procedure. Actually, I would like it if we could find consensus on a slate of candidates and make the vote a formality, like APRALO did. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge -lists.icann.org
-- -- Regards,
Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-l ists.icann.org
-- Datenschutzconsulting.info Dipl. Inform. Werner Hülsmann - Anerkannter Datenschutzsachverständiger - Obere Laube 48, D-78462 Konstanz Tel.: 07531 / 365 90-54, FAX: -57 Mobil: 0177 / 28 28 681 E-Mail: wh@datenschutzconsulting.info http://www.datenschutzconsulting.info
-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
Nick It seems as if he did miss. What's the difference again betweeb als list and discuss list? Sent via BlackBerry service from bmobile -----Original Message----- From: "Nick Ashton-Hart" <nick.ashton-hart@icann.org> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:25:11 To:"Werner Hülsmann" <werner@euralo.eu> Cc:Discussion for At-Large Europe <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Lisbon Follow Up Werner: All the information you are asking for has been posted several times over the past few days to this list. It is also posted at the EURALO website at www.euralo.org. Since you have referenced the URL below on the wiki - which www.euralo.org goes to - I can see you have access to it. All the information about everything that is happening is being sent to all the ALSes, including you - and it always has been. You are not missing anything unless your email server has problems, or your spam filter is catching emails from the list, or for some other techical reason; since you are responding here you must be getting some of it. The timetable on the wiki page you reference is what was agreed in Lisbon. For other comments, see below. On 31/03/07, Werner Hülsmann <werner@euralo.eu> wrote:
Hello Nick,
I'm the official representativ of the ALS "Deutsche Vereinigung für Datenschutz (DVD) e.V.). My official E-Mail-Adresse is huelsmann@datenschutzverein.de .
At this official E-Mail-Adresse there was till now neiter an information about the results of Lisbon nor an information about the timetable for the next steps! How can this be?
As previously mentioned it has been repeatedly sent to this list.
I wasn't able to take part in Lisbon because I had to do my business. Sorry for that, but I've also to earn some money because all my work for the DVD and for EurALO isn't paied.
So I need some more informations! Please send them to all the official contacts of teh ALSes.
This has already been done.
It can't be, that only the ALSes, which signed the MoU already can take part on the next step. At first, there must be enough time for als ALSes to sign the MoU.
You are right - it cannot be that way. And, in fact, it isn't. As previously stated, several times today alone, ALL ALSes are AUTOMATICALLY a part of the RALO. Because
of Eastern the timetable mentioned on https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?nominations_2007 is to short.
This is what was agreed to in Lisbon. I'm sorry you weren't there - it was a great meeting.
On the Page https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?lisbon_icann_meeting is no link to the bylaws and the MoU. Why not?
Because it is available from so many places on that wiki - including I think all the meeting pages under the Lisbon Meetings Page, and including in very large type on the FRONT page.
Please take care that all ALSes are well informed about the results of Lisbon!
I have - we all have - and they are. You have not missed anything.
On 31 Mar 2007 at 16:24, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
May I just encourage everyone not to abandon the consensus process agreed in Lisbon. It was agreed and it isn't a very good precedent if something that a large body of ALSes all found agreement on is immediately proposed to be discarded before it has even had a chance to work - if more time is needed for some of the steps, that will become clear, and I'm sure that all parties will see the sense of extending things and it will be seen as the natural thing to do.
I certainly understand your points about the amount of time - but this was considered quite carefully by your colleagues and discarding elements of that agreement would likely produce the same negative by-products which you wish to avoid...
On 31/03/07, Wolfgang Kleinwächter <wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
Tahnks Vittorio,
I think the differendes can be worked out constructively.
With regard to some procedures I think that all ASLs has to be involved and not only the minority who had been able to sit in the room in Lisbon. There should be a formal information to all recognized ASLs with a clear and fair timeline and a chance to comment what to do next. Do not rush. There is no need for a hurry. If we have the elections finished before San Juan, this is okay. Nothing will collapse if we take us more time.
With regard to the April 14 this is absolutely too short. It is now Easter and a lot of potential candidates are in vacation. So this has to be reconsidered. I propose May 15, This would give all parties to prepare better for an fair and transparent process. Otherwise you provoke another round of heated debate, conflicts and mistrust of people who had been not involved and will think this is another big conspiracy.
So we NEED the involvement of all ALS to get he credibility an EURALO should have. And credibility is onw of the highest value for such an Internet jsers organisation.
BTW, thanks for proposing me as a potential EURALO Board member. Unfortunately due to another overload of work, the Summer School, GIGANET, Studienkreis and something else I will not be in a position to take an additonal function. I will concentrate my energy and efforts to get the thing started because I feel - as a veteran in this discussion - ALM and EURALO as part of my personal responsibility towards the community. But with regard to leadership positions in this new boday it is time for the European youngster to take the lead, in particular we need also young energietic woman and ALS andindividuals from outside the EU to get a better balance, to grow and to make the voices of the European Internet usaer5s in the ICANN context visible.
Best
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: Vittorio Bertola [mailto:vb@bertola.eu] Gesendet: Sa 31.03.2007 15:25 An: Wolfgang Kleinwächter Cc: Discussion for At-Large Europe Betreff: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Lisbon Follow Up
Wolfgang Kleinwächter ha scritto:
Dear list,
back home here are some conclusions, comments and proposals for further actions and next steps:
1. Regardless of the controversial discussion and the heated debate the outcome of the Lisbon meeting is a good step forward and we should build on this
I agree, and let me say that I really appreciated the way that all of us, and specifically those who were most attached to the issues of incorporation and individual membership such as you and Christoph, worked together to reach an acceptable compromise.
For the process you propose, I would like to stick to the process we agreed - if I remember well you were not in the meeting on Tuesday morning, so I am reattaching the document that was approved. There is not much difference, except that the idea is to first elect the Board and ALAC reps (so that I can finally leave my seat...), then let the EURALO Board instruct the discussion. Of course the EURALO Board could then delegate a working group - in any case I think that you necessarily have to be in this discussion (you'd be a good EURALO Board member anyway, and I think that the people who were most active in the discussions up to here are natural candidates for a strong initial EURALO Board, that can ensure a good continuation of the process).
So I'd build on the timeline we agreed, and if we can have a EURALO Board elected by May 10 - and maybe work in parallel to develop a proposal on the open issues - we could still try to have a virtual GA at mid June, just before Puerto Rico. It really depends on how hard we work.
About the last two points:
4. the formal nomination process for the EURALO board members and ALAC reps should start after Easter.
In Lisbon, we agreed to have nominations between tomorrow and April 14, and to have the Chair elected by the Board. I would not reopen the discussion until we really feel the need to (and we approved the Bylaws and procedure in Lisbon, so what do we do if someone complains?).
BTW - There are not so many participants to the initial vote, so I would expect that it won't be a vote on a huge scale; and that's reasonable for a bootstrapping procedure. Actually, I would like it if we could find consensus on a slate of candidates and make the vote a formality, like APRALO did. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge -lists.icann.org
-- -- Regards,
Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-l ists.icann.org
-- Datenschutzconsulting.info Dipl. Inform. Werner Hülsmann - Anerkannter Datenschutzsachverständiger - Obere Laube 48, D-78462 Konstanz Tel.: 07531 / 365 90-54, FAX: -57 Mobil: 0177 / 28 28 681 E-Mail: wh@datenschutzconsulting.info http://www.datenschutzconsulting.info
-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.i...
participants (2)
-
Jacqueline A. Morris -
Nick Ashton-Hart