- Gnso-igo-ingo-crp - lists.icann.org

URDP decision involving (INGO) member of the IGO-INGO PDP WG
by Paul Tattersfield Oct. 29, 2015

Oct. 29, 2015

International Electrotechnical Commission sort UDRP determination for IEC.com http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2015-1469 Best regards, Paul.

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No WG meetings on 28 October & 4 November
by Mary Wong Oct. 24, 2015

Oct. 24, 2015

Dear WG members, We hope that those members who came to ICANN54 in Dublin had a productive meeting and wish you all a pleasant journey home. Please note that, as is customary following an ICANN Public Meeting, there will be no WG meeting on Wednesday 28 October. In addition, as staff finalizes the contracting process with Professor Swaine and follow up on the status of the IGO ³small group² work, it is anticipated that there will also be no WG meeting on Wednesday 4 November. Staff will update the WG on the progress of these two work items as much as we are able in the intervening period. Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org

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WG open meeting in Dublin
by Mary Wong Oct. 21, 2015

Oct. 21, 2015

Dear WG members, Please note that due to overall schedule changes and some session clashes affecting a number of GNSO constituencies/groups, the WG¹s open community session at ICANN54 in Dublin will be this Thursday, 22 October, at 0900-1000 Dublin time. Remote participation details and location can be found here: https://meetings.icann.org/en/dublin54/schedule/thu-igo-ingo-crp-access. Thank you. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org

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- Legal Expert - Edward Swaine
by Steve Chan Oct. 6, 2015

Oct. 6, 2015

Dear WG Members, Per the email sent to the WG on 23 September 2015, staff has been in contact with Edward Swaine as a possible candidate to provide expertise to this WG¹s efforts. Mr. Swaine has expressed interest in assisting the WG, is able to perform the work in a reasonable timeframe, and provided a quote that falls within budget. Please see the attached document which provides his response in full, although his quoted amount has been redacted since we do not have his express consent to share at this time. Staff and the co-chairs ask that you all review his qualifications and provide your feedback by CoB on 5 October 2015, in regards to whether staff should proceed with the contracting process. Here is a link to his George Washington University faculty page, which includes his CV and other materials for review: http://www.law.gwu.edu/Faculty/profile.aspx?id=10968 Best, Steve Steven Chan Sr. Policy Manager ICANN 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 steve.chan(a)icann.org <mailto:steve.chan@icann.org> direct: +1.310.301.3886 mobile: +1.310.339.4410 tel: +1.310.301.5800 fax: +1.310.823.8649

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- Legal Expert Follow-Up
by Steve Chan Sept. 24, 2015

Sept. 24, 2015

Dear WG Members, The purpose of this message is to inform you all that pursuant to the agreed upon actions on Wednesday¹s WG call, staff has worked with the co-chairs to prepare a brief follow-up message to the three final candidates (I.e., John Bellinger, David Stewart, and Mark Feldman), which was just sent a short while ago. The message seeks response by COB Friday, 18 September 2015 or earlier, after which responses will be shared with WG members to help reach agreement on a candidate. If you have any questions, please let me know. Have a great weekend. Best, Steven Chan Sr. Policy Manager ICANN 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 steve.chan(a)icann.org <mailto:steve.chan@icann.org> direct: +1.310.301.3886 mobile: +1.310.339.4410 tel: +1.310.301.5800 fax: +1.310.823.8649

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MP3 IGO WG - Wednesday, 09 September at 1600 UTC
by Nathalie Peregrine Sept. 9, 2015

Sept. 9, 2015

Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Wednesday, 09 September 2015 at 1600 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-09sep15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXz…> On page: <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug>http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#s<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep>ep<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: George Kirikos - Individual Petter Rindforth – IPC Phil Corwin – BC Val Sherman - IPC Jim Bikoff – IPC Osvaldo Novoa - NCUC Jay Chapman – Individual Kathy Kleiman – NCUC Kristine Dorrain – NAF Paul Keating – NCUC David Maher - RySG Apologies: Mason Cole – RySG ICANN staff: Mary Wong Berry Cobb Steve Chan Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/97rhAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday, 09 September 2015: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the 9th September 2015 George Kirikos:Hi everyone. Petter Rindforth:Hi there! George Kirikos:Hi Petter. How are you today? Osvaldo Novoa:Hello George Kirikos:Hi Osvaldo. How's it going? Osvaldo Novoa:Hi George, luckily everything is fine, though the weather is a bit cold. George Kirikos:Glad to hear everything is fine (save for the weather). George Kirikos:Apple has an event at 1 pm Eastern time (1 hour from now)http://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2015/ so we should try to finish on time. Petter Rindforth:Fine, as I will soon "meet" all of you all :-) George Kirikos:(I'm guessing many of us will want to watch it live) Paul Keating:Hi Phil and everyone George Kirikos:Welcome, Paul. Jay Chapman:Howdy, all George Kirikos:Hi Jay. Kristine Dorrain-NAF:Hello everyone! Pre-apologies- I need to leave in 1/2 hour for a conflicting meeting. George Kirikos:Nathalie has her hand up. George Kirikos:Oops, she took it down. Nathalie Peregrine:I was wondering if a roll call was needed :) Attendance will be of course noted regardless.. Mary Wong:Thanks, Nathalie Mary Wong:As far as we (staff) know, the proposal is still under discussion. Mary Wong:BTW it's not a staff proposal :) Paul Keating:Pphil, is the delay in the follow up on their end or ours? In other words, is it that they are not making themselves available? Mary Wong:We assisted with subject matter advice, implementation discussions etc. Paul Keating:Mary, if Staff assisted why is Staff not providing the information to this WG? Mary Wong:Yes, input would be the best word Paul Keating:Phil, I request that this WG (via the Chairs) make a formal written request. It impacts our review and thus is material in our deliverations. If they do not respond then we can make a note of it in our final report. George Kirikos:Can the document be unlocked, please, so we can scroll it? George Kirikos:Thanks. Steve Chan:This is just a PDF of the WIki page. Philip Corwin:Taken under advisement, Paul. George Kirikos:Is there any possibility of joint authorship? (i.e. do any of these experts wish to work together?) Nathalie Peregrine:Val Sherman has joined the call Mary Wong:We can put up individual bios (Steve has them all) so just let us know which candidate you want to look at. George Kirikos:One can see them on the web at:https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Legal+Expert+Selection Paul Keating:I would agree. The focus should be on qualifications AND availablility. Paul Keating:Has ICANN worked with any of those suggested? If so is there any feedback on their work? Mary Wong:I don't believe so, Paul. George Kirikos:Bothe Bellinger and Stewart are located in Washington, DC. If we did joint-authorship, they'd be close to each other geographically. George Kirikos:Bothe=Both George Kirikos:Feldman is in Washington DC, too. George Kirikos:Do we have lists of Bellinger's scholarly publications, etc? Mary Wong:One possible specific factor the WG might wish to consider, amongst this field of 3 very well-qualified candidates, is which of them has worked most closely with IGO immunity issues. George Kirikos:Nevermind, I found a list of Bellinger's publications at:http://www.arnoldporter.com/professionals.cfm?u=JohnBBellingerIII&action… Mary Wong:We also have policy staff based in DC who can help out, Phil - including Rob Hoggarth who also supports the GNSO. George Kirikos:Did the candidates give a time estimate for the project? i.e. someone might charge more, but deliver the report faster? Kristine Dorrain-NAF:Fascinating conversation, I trust the group's judgment and have to run to another meeting. See you all next time. Paul Keating:is the budget an hourly budget or a total cost? Mary Wong:@George, Jim may be able to provide more detail about Mr Belllinger but Prof Stewart has told us he thinks it is doable within our time frame. Paul Keating:Look at text George Kirikos:What is "our time frame", Mary? Kathy K:I wonderf if Feldman knows the budget? If he does not know the existing budget, perhaps he would be able to go down in price. Paul Keating:Mary/Steve, is the ICANN budget an houirly limit or a project limit? Kathy K:Given his background, this may be a job he wants to take... Paul Keating:Any others who provided limitations? George Kirikos:Thanks Phil. Steve Chan:@Paul, no others noted specific concerns Steve Chan:No Steve Chan:We have not worked with them before Mary Wong:To be complete, Mr Feldman said he would need to do additional research in order to answer Q2 & 3 in a manner that he thought helpful to us. George Kirikos:Dublin = Oct 18-22 George Kirikos:However, doesn't ICANN have a policy that documents should be published several weeks before any meetings? Paul Keating:My Vote: Feldman 1, Stewart 2nd George Kirikos:(or maybe those are just staff documents) Mary Wong:@George, that's generally for documents intended for community review/input, not necessarily WG documents (except of course those that require public comment). Paul Keating:Reasons: Feldman would provide a more thoughtful approach (having drafted teh FISA) which is needed more than a longer professorial study whcih may not come to a conclusion Paul Keating:Phil, was Feldman the one who could not respond to all questions? Mary Wong:@Paul, yes, not without additional research Paul Keating:Phil, can you remind us of what Q2 and 3 were? Steve Chan:Q2: 2. Are there procedural or other mechanisms which an IGO may use to escape or avoid becoming subject to judicial action brought by a domain name registrant arising from an asserted conflict between the IGO’s and the registrant’s rights? Steve Chan:Q3: To the best of your knowledge, how do IGOs generally handle standard commercial contractual clauses concerning submission to a particular jurisdiction or dispute resolution method? Paul Keating:Mary, assuming you were in agreement on fees with the expert, what is the time necessary to complete the "process" at ICANN to get them started and billing? George Kirikos:E-mail + FAX is always good. Paul Keating:Remind me of the questions 2/3 please? Mary Wong:@Paul, Steve put them in the chat earlier - you may need to scroll up Paul Keating:depends on how important the questions were. Paul Keating:ok t hen I defer to the group on him. I just think that his background in having drafted the statute is important. George Kirikos:Although, anyone who is hired should not focus just on US law, but other (major) jurisdictions too. Nathalie Peregrine:No one left on the audio bridge who is not already in the AC room (for show of hands' sake) Paul Keating:I think there is a 0 cost to include him but disclose that he is well above budget and would he consider reducing it and whether he feels he cannot answer the questions (he only said that the IGOs would be better at answering it) Paul Keating:The letter should be different - pls see above. Paul Keating:Petter, he did not say he could not respond. He said the IGOS would be better at answering them. Petter Rindforth:Ok, sorry, I missed that Paul Keating:Paul Keating: I suggest we work on the final report. The expert's addition will be only a part George Kirikos:Dropping off chat, but still on audio, as I head off to Apple Event viewing. Paul Keating:thank you all Jay Chapman:goodbye

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- Proposed Agenda for 9 September Meeting
by Steve Chan Sept. 9, 2015

Sept. 9, 2015

Dear WG Members, Below, please find the proposed agenda for the call scheduled on 9 September 2015 at 16:00 UTC. 1. Roll call/updates to SOI 2. Update on recent discussions in the GNSO Council 3. Discuss and agree on criteria for choice of external legal expert 4. Discuss and agree on which expert to follow up with (Information on candidates available here: https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Legal+Expert+Selection) 5. Next steps Best, Steven Chan Sr. Policy Manager ICANN 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 steve.chan(a)icann.org <mailto:steve.chan@icann.org> direct: +1.310.301.3886 mobile: +1.310.339.4410 tel: +1.310.301.5800 fax: +1.310.823.8649

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Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Legal Expert Candidates
by Paul Keating Sept. 3, 2015

Sept. 3, 2015

Thank you. Can you give us some idea of what the budget cost is and what the various level indications are between $, $$ and $$$? Absent this it is not very meaningful. Thanks Paul Keating From: <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces(a)icann.org> on behalf of Steve Chan <steve.chan(a)icann.org> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:57 PM To: "gnso-igo-ingo-crp(a)icann.org" <gnso-igo-ingo-crp(a)icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Legal Expert Candidates > Dear WG Members, > > I hope this email finds you well. This email is in regards to the candidates > available to perform the research related to the questions developed by this > working group. Apologies for the late delivery of this information. > > In staff¹s conversations with the candidates, we found that we were fortunate > to have a number of qualified individuals to choose from, who appreciated the > complexity of the WG¹s questions that were shared with them. While the > selection of the expert is a decision for the WG, at least from a staff > perspective, we felt that David P. Stewart had the right combination of > expertise, availability, and cost. I would like to point the WG members to the > Wiki (https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Legal+Expert+Selection) > to review the collection of candidates that have expressed their interest in > contributing to this project, along with background, qualifications, > scholarship, and other information that the candidates thought would be > helpful in evaluating their ability to provide expertise to this project. You > will notice a column labeled ³Cost²that is intended to provide WG members with > a rough understanding of when a candidate is beyond the expected budget for > this work, so that this factor can be taken into account in the selection > process. > > If there are any questions, staff will be happy to try and provide answers. > > Best, > Steve > > > > > Steven Chan > Sr. Policy Manager > > ICANN > 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 > Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 > steve.chan(a)icann.org > <mailto:steve.chan@icann.org> > direct: +1.310.301.3886 > mobile: +1.310.339.4410 > tel: +1.310.301.5800 > fax: +1.310.823.8649 > _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list > Gnso-igo-ingo-crp(a)icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp

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Legal Expert Candidates
by Steve Chan Sept. 1, 2015

Sept. 1, 2015

Dear WG Members, I hope this email finds you well. This email is in regards to the candidates available to perform the research related to the questions developed by this working group. Apologies for the late delivery of this information. In staff¹s conversations with the candidates, we found that we were fortunate to have a number of qualified individuals to choose from, who appreciated the complexity of the WG¹s questions that were shared with them. While the selection of the expert is a decision for the WG, at least from a staff perspective, we felt that David P. Stewart had the right combination of expertise, availability, and cost. I would like to point the WG members to the Wiki (https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Legal+Expert+Selection) to review the collection of candidates that have expressed their interest in contributing to this project, along with background, qualifications, scholarship, and other information that the candidates thought would be helpful in evaluating their ability to provide expertise to this project. You will notice a column labeled ³Cost²that is intended to provide WG members with a rough understanding of when a candidate is beyond the expected budget for this work, so that this factor can be taken into account in the selection process. If there are any questions, staff will be happy to try and provide answers. Best, Steve Steven Chan Sr. Policy Manager ICANN 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 steve.chan(a)icann.org <mailto:steve.chan@icann.org> direct: +1.310.301.3886 mobile: +1.310.339.4410 tel: +1.310.301.5800 fax: +1.310.823.8649

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MP3 IGO WG - Wednesday, 05 August at 1600 UTC
by Terri Agnew Aug. 5, 2015

Aug. 5, 2015

Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Wednesday, 05 August 2015 at 1600 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-05aug15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXz…> On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: George Kirikos - Individual Petter Rindforth - IPC Phil Corwin - BC Val Sherman - IPC Jim Bikoff - IPC Paul Tattersfield - Individual Osvaldo Novoa - NCUC Mason Cole - RySG Lori Schulman - IPC Rudi Vansnick - NPOC Jay Chapman - Individual Apologies: Kathy Kleiman - NCUC ICANN staff: Mary Wong Berry Cobb Steve Chan Julia Charvolen Terri Agnew ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/97rhAg Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday, 05 August 2015: Terri Agnew:Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the 5th August 2015 George Kirikos:Hi everyone. Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all George Kirikos:Hi Osvaldo. George Kirikos:I noticed there's a typo in the document that's on screen -- it says "UCANN" on page 4 (just above the "3. Questions", in blue text) Mary Wong:Thanks, George - we'll fix in final formatting Terri Agnew:Welcome Paul Tattersfield Paul Tattersfield:Hello all Terri Agnew:Welcome Phil Corwin Philip Corwin:Hello all. I've been on call since start but had to look up Adobe link George Kirikos:Welcome, Phil. Philip Corwin:Echoing petter, thanks tyo all for being on call on short notice Terri Agnew:Welcome Rudi Vansnick Rudi Vansnick:sorry for being late George Kirikos:Welcome, Rudi. George Kirikos:Is there a possibility of having co-authors? (i.e. more than one expert) That's common in academic research. Mary Wong:@George, as this would be more solicitation of expert advice rather than a scholarly paper, I'd say let's go with one first. Rudi Vansnick:good question George although it could be a budget issue Terri Agnew:Welcome Lori Schulman Lori:Thanks. My apologies for getting on late. Lots of balls in the air today. Jay Chapman:and the domain name registrant's rights to the registration and/or use of a domain name George Kirikos:Jay's language looks fine to me. Rudi Vansnick:good point Jay Mary Wong:Can we simplify it by saying something like "conflict between an IGO's and a registrant's rights"? Philip Corwin:I added the proposed blue language in Q1 that refers to registrant's rights -- but am agnostic on final language so long as it captures concept. Rudi Vansnick:the right to use is quite important Mary Wong:@Jay, @Phil, if we change the language, would we still need Phil's language in blue at the end of that sentence in Q1? George Kirikos:I think the key part of Question #1 is that it's the IGO that's initiating the dispute. So, they're trying to claim 'immunity', even though they are the "aggressor" so to speak. Whereas "immunity" is usually a defence to a claim. Lori:When I scroll the document is it scrolling for everyone or just me? Rudi Vansnick:@Lori : only for you Lori:thanks. George Kirikos:I think we definitely need the language at the end of Q1, perhaps even more, to clarify that the IGO is the one initiating the dispute. Mary Wong:When documents are unsync'ed everyone can scroll without affecting anyone else's view Mary Wong:@George, note that the Q currently says "judicial action brought by a domain name registrant" Jay Chapman:Yes, i think the blue language Phil added is still necessary Rudi Vansnick:we can keep the text in blue Paul Tattersfield:and the domain name registrant's rights to registration or use of a domain? Philip Corwin:Q2 references a judicial appeal filed by a registrant who lost a UDRP or URS -- the only situation in which the sovereign immunity issue arises. George Kirikos:It's clear that if the UDRP didn't exist, IGOs would have to use the courts. George Kirikos:(and they wouldn't be able to assert immunity, when they themselves brought an action to the court) George Kirikos:So, to the extent that the UDRP doesn't create any "new law", implicitly the IGOs should still be subject to court action, even if they decided to initiate via the UDRP. Lori:I was thinking of Judd Kessler of Porter Wright Morris and Arthur Rudi Vansnick:one simple question : what about an expert from outside the USA ? Lori:I can ask him. Lori:Rudi's point is well taken too. Mary Wong:@Rudi, Dr Khoury is from Israeal and Prof Geist from Canada Rudi Vansnick:Dr Khoury is the only one if i'm correct ? Lori:http://www.porterwright.com/judd_kessler/ Lori:Judd is an international arbitration judge Lori:Harvard educated, used to work for USAID Mary Wong:@Lori, when you contact Mr Kessler, please cc me and Steve so we can follow up if he's interested Lori:OK. Mary Wong:Thanks! George Kirikos:The experts need to also be familiar with rulings in many jurisdictions around the world, not just the USA. Lori:Judd is an international arbitrator -- I will ask these questions George Kirikos:(e.g. I had posted a Supreme Court of Canada decision) At least for G20 countries, or other advanced economies (i.e. where most IGOs and domain name registrants would be located) Lori:What have you been sending candidates since our doc is still under discussion or have you just been interviewing Mary Wong:@Lori, Steve has spoken to (or will speak to) all of them, explaining orally the scope of what we are looking for. Lori:Ok, I will call Judd, explain and then tell him to expect communication from Steve? Mary Wong:@Lori, thank you, that sounds great George Kirikos:I found a book published in 2000 by Cambridge University Press at http://catdir.loc.gov/catdir/samples/cam032/99011072.pdf George Kirikos:which seems to cover the topic. The author might be able to update us, since the precedents might have changed in 15 years. (he appears to cover more than one country). Mary Wong:@George, would you like to propose that staff contact Prof Reinisch? Lori:I just contacted Judd privately to see if there is any interest. When I hear from him then maybe I will set up a call with Steve George Kirikos:Sure, or other researchers. Lori:Mary, if he expresses any interest, then I will cc you and Steve Rudi Vansnick:i just agreed Mary Wong:Thanks Lori! George Kirikos:Of course, WIPO itself is an IGO. Their statement seems to just be a 'position statement', and not useful in the sense that it provides no underlying facts or supporting evidence. Lori:Brian and Jonathan from OECD were concerned that we were not focusing on their concerns enough Lori:that the group had been too dismissive on the whole George Kirikos:We've had dozens of volunteers spending hundreds of hours on 'their concerns', yet they've not shown up at these calls. Lori:I had pointed that out Mary Wong:Brian is an observer to this WG George Kirikos:Disagreeing with their analysis, and asking for facts (rather than position statements) shows we're bending over backwards to try to address their concerns. Mary Wong:@Lori, all those documents are part of this WG's record. We had Sub TEams that reviewed them all. Mary Wong:The review included the WIPO-2 Process report and associated documents, WIPO SCT proceedings, the earlier ICANN President's Joint Working Group, and the 2007 GNSO Issue Report. George Kirikos:Indeed, we've reached a conclusion that Article 6ter marks should be sufficient for standing under the existing UDRP. George Kirikos:And that further education would allow IGOs to move forward under the existing policy. So, their "wish list" is partially being addressed. George Kirikos:What's funny is that we've shown cases where IGOs do go to court. George Kirikos:(world bank, etc.) George Kirikos:When they speak in 'absolutes', instead of recognizing that reality is not 'absolute', it's like arguing religion. George Kirikos:e.g. they could have told us how they enforce non-domain trademark disputes. George Kirikos:Presumably they don't compel offenders into binding international arbitration....instead, they've been silent. George Kirikos:If they "tolerate" non-domain trademark infringement....it begs the question why they don't "tolerate" domain name related TM infringement? Rudi Vansnick:woops 30 days .. waw being a european i do not have these ;-) Rudi Vansnick:actually i'm happy with 3 -4 days of vacation ;-) George Kirikos:What's a vacation? :-) Paul Tattersfield:If the meeting can not take place soon it must call in to question the Dublin Deadline Philip Corwin:Exception noted Rudi ;-) Lori:I need to sign off. Lunch with the esteemed Mr. Metalitz. Lori:Ciao Rudi Vansnick:thanks a lot for the good work delivered George Kirikos:Bye everyone. Have a great day! Paul Tattersfield:thanks all Jay Chapman:goodbye all! Rudi Vansnick:bye

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