Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Sept. 12, 2016

      Wich new design and implementation requirements are you talking about 
Volker?

Thanks.

Theo

Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-09 04:13 PM:
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Well, I was a member of the PDP and when I supported a switch, I
assumed this would be a quick thing:
The legal issues would be sorted, the remaining thin registries would
set up thick whois servers, get a data dump from the registrars and
after a short switchover time, registrars would updated their EPP
protocols to a standard used by currently thick registries and
afterward, a delta file would be sent for final changes. Quick and
dirty and very cheap to implement.
I did not imagine that everyone would try to reinvent the wheel in the
implementation process. EPP is pretty much standardized, registrars
use EPP to send registration data to thick registries. The same
implementation could be used for the currently thin registries.
Of course we were aware that RDS would be coming at some point, so no
one even considered that this be overdesigned and complicated beyond
belief as it would only be for a short period of time. The more
complicated it gets and the more implementation time and cost
expenditure is invested, the more you remove the basic common sense
understanding of making this change.
I still favor a change to thick over thin, but for all our sakes, make
it as easy as possible without adding new design and implementation
requirements. Use what we already have and be done with it.
Best,
Volker
Am 09.09.2016 um 15:43 schrieb Marika Konings:
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Having supported the Thick WHOIS PDP WG, I believe most if not all
of its members were well aware of the work that was ongoing in
parallel, but nevertheless the assumption was that it could take
some time for that work to complete and that any transition to a new
model/system would be easier if all registries would be operating
under the same model. It is also one of the questions that is
included in the RDS PDP WG Charter: Coexistence: What steps should
be taken to enable next-generation RDS coexistence with and
replacement of the legacy WHOIS system?
Of course, I am happy to stand corrected if my recollection is
wrong.
Best regards,
Marika
On 09/09/16 03:40, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@key-systems.net>
wrote:
Hi Steve,
I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a
possibility
made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the
PDP WG
deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common
whois
system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on
establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on
the
horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group
is trying
to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately
end up
being superseded.
This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model.
Limit
the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For
example,
who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the
same
can be achieved with existing means.
All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the
very
real possibility that we are working on something ultimately
destined
the trash can.
Best regards,
Volker
Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo:
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Hi Steve, et al.
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I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move
on my
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part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear
this thing
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up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is
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currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that
anything
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is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP.
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However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not
up to
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us anyways.
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Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution
anyways. It is
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that complex.
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I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me
elaborate on
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that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN
staff.
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This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for
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.Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to
deal
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with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out
they are
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currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I
heard
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they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as
there is
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no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006.
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I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from
the GDD
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to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us
more
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info on:
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-how does it work?
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-what are the timelines?
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-expected duration?
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-what are the practical issues?
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-etc
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If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline
this and
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make it work?
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The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the
IRT. Yet it
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may be a path forward for us.
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Best regards,
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Theo
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Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
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Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed
to Marc
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last week about his draft memo:
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(1)     The first two developments to which you cite are the
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invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the
adoption of the
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EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it.  My impression
is that
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US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in
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processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data
containing
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personally identifiable information from European registrars
and
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making it available through registry Whois), and so would not
have
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been directly impacted by its invalidation.   Is my
impression wrong?
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If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe
Harbor
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or the Privacy Shield in this context?
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(2)    The last paragraph refers to data localization laws
apart from
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EU privacy/data protection laws.  Can you be more specific?
I note
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that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of
the legal
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review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other
issues not
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covered by that analysis?
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(3)    If the IRT were to send this letter,  the GNSO
council might
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well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How
would you
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respond?
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In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to
#3 would
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be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the
Working
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Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN
board,
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it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time
implementing
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it.”  Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT
support
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that?
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STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL
CORPORATION
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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
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MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [3]
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1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl]
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SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM
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TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann'
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CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft
Thick
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Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
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Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker
here.
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Few things that stood out.
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It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes
sense) but
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Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was
intended? I
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would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would
be a
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possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the
consequences
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are.
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Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The
legal review
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does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to
us.
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What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the
legal
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review (page5)?
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Let me list them:
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1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and
restoration
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properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or
experience
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long-term technical failures rendering
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them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick
Whois
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have all the registrant information at hand and could
transfer the
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registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that
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registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
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2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in
display
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formats.
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3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform
sets of
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data, and display standards, improves consistency across all
gTLDs at
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all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all
users of
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Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property
holders,
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etc).
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4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data
has
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typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than
the
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registrar.
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I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the
point
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that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
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Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations.  The
reasoning in
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point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid.
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Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and
the AWIP
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policy released in 2015.
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Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be
solved.
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Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
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One could almost argue there are no benefits.  Not sure if
you guys
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want to circle back on this one and include this in a side
note for
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the comment period.
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Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I
think) is
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the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be
me, but
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it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and
workable
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procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and
it would
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solve our impediment.
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Thank you for making it this far.
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Theo
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theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
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Thanks, Marika,
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I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is
right.
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Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve
already
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warned
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us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft
Verisign
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prepared
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does actually highlight the current situation. And to be
fair? How
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many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have
been
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invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the
brexit
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or
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Trump running for president.
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In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is
not up
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to
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this IRT.  We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we
have a
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few
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impediments.
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Best regards,
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Theo
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On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
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And it can be found here:
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https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
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Best regards,
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Marika
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MARIKA KONINGS
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Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet
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Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
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Email: marika.konings@icann.org
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_ _
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_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
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_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive
courses [10
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[1]]
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and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
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FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf
of
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"Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com>
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DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44
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TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo
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<gtheo@xs4all.nl>
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CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"
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<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>
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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review]
Draft Thick
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Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
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That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL
CORPORATION
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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
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MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [2] [1
[3]]
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1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED
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FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED
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THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS
SUCH IS
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PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE
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INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW,
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DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS
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PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR
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TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL
ATTACHMENTS FROM
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YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
...
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net]
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SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM
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TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo
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CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review]
Draft Thick
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Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
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Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a
legal
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review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any
implementation
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on local privacy legislations, the question of available
excemptions
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may well become relevant to such a review.
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Best,
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Volker
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Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
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Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL
CORPORATION
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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
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MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [2] [1 [3]]
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1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED
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FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED
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RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT
COMMUNICATION,
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AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF
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ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF
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MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY
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REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE
AND ALL
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ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org
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[mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF
OF
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Volker Greimann
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SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM
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TO: gtheo
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CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review]
Draft
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Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
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Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining
an
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excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I
guess.
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An
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Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may
soon
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be
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another one of those. ;-)
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Best,
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Volker
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Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
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That might be a way forward Volker.
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https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
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However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years
to
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obtain
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one.
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The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
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governments
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displayed the last 12 months that things can change at
record
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speed
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law wise.
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I guess the problem boils down to this.
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-Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses
at
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risk.
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-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed
timeline.
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-There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
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I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to
the
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IRT to
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fix this as it is out of scope.
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Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to
mention
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RDAP.
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Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when
it
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comes
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to Thin WHOIS Registries.
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Theo
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Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
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How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving
conflicts
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with
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local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data
Retention
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specification"?
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Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
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Hello all,
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_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and
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requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for
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Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
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Registry
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Operators and Registrars. _
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We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us
see
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if we
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can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
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struggling
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with this section for a few now.
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The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected
after
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the
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discussions we had about this in the last few months.
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What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense
of
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moving forward to the comment period.
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The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
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address,
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yet this IRT relies on it.
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Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
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something
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...
like:
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_Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
...
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...
Registrars
...
...
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...
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...
and Registrants the best of luck!_
...
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...
Thanks,
...
...
...
Theo
...
...
...
...
...
...
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
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...
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
...
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...
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
...
...
...
...
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...
Whois
...
...
...
...
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...
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy
...
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...
includes
...
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...
the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this
...
...
...
topic.
...
...
...
...
...
...
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in
four
...
...
...
sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections
are
...
...
...
bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration
Data
...
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...
Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy
and
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...
...
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...
the
...
...
...
...
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...
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may
be
...
...
...
aware, a
...
...
...
Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
...
...
...
...
...
...
Registries
...
...
...
...
...
...
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry
Registration
...
...
...
Data
...
...
...
Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
...
...
...
...
...
...
[1]]
...
...
...
...
...
...
that was
...
...
...
published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion
of
...
...
...
RDAP in
...
...
...
the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
...
...
...
...
...
...
process,
...
...
...
...
...
...
we
...
...
...
thought it was important to continue progressing the
...
...
...
implementation
...
...
...
project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
...
...
...
...
...
...
and
...
...
...
...
...
...
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our
...
...
...
schedule.
...
...
...
Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be
revisited
...
...
...
pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
...
...
...
...
...
...
call
...
...
...
...
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...
the
...
...
...
IRT's attention to it.
...
...
...
...
...
...
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT
...
...
...
meeting as
...
...
...
a team but please provide your comments in advance via email
if
...
...
...
possible.
...
...
...
...
...
...
Thank you for your support!
...
...
...
...
...
...
--
...
...
...
...
...
...
Kind Regards,
...
...
...
...
...
...
Dennis S. Chang
...
...
...
...
...
...
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
...
...
...
...
...
...
+1 213 293 7889
...
...
...
...
...
...
Skype: dennisSchang
...
...
...
...
...
...
www.icann.org [2] [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One
Internet"
...
...
...
...
...
...
Links:
...
...
...
------
...
...
...
[1 [3]]
...
...
...
...
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
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Key-Systems GmbH
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Im Oberen Werk 1
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66386 St. Ingbert
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Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
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- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4]
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei
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www.keydrive.lu [9]
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Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
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Im Oberen Werk 1
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Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
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Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
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Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4]
www.domaindiscount24.com [5] / www.BrandShelter.com [6]
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems [7]
www.twitter.com/key_systems [8]
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
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Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu [9]
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den
angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe,
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--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to
contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4]
www.domaindiscount24.com [5] / www.BrandShelter.com [6]
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay
updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems [7]
www.twitter.com/key_systems [8]
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
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V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu [9]
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to
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