Hello Theo, ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-... Thanks Dennis Chang On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote: Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, > > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. > > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we > thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the > IRT’s attention to it. > > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if > possible. > > Thank you for your support! > > — > > Kind Regards, > > Dennis S. Chang > > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director > > +1 213 293 7889 > > Skype: dennisSchang > > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

Hi Dennis, It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting. https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise? Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party. Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed? Best regards, Theo On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:

Thank you Dennis,

I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.

Theo

On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:

...

Hello Theo,

ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...

Thanks Dennis Chang

On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, > > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. > > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we > thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the > IRT’s attention to it. > > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if > possible. > > Thank you for your support! > > — > > Kind Regards, > > Dennis S. Chang > > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director > > +1 213 293 7889 > > Skype: dennisSchang > > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

Hi Dennis, Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways. You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change. My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter. Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them? Thanks, Theo On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.

My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.

In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?

Thanks Dennis Chang

On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.

https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf

The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?

Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.

Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?

Best regards,

Theo

On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote: > Thank you Dennis, > > I'll give it a read as soon I have the time. > > Theo > > On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote: >> Hello Theo, >> >> ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law >> mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: >> https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-... >> >> >> >> Thanks >> Dennis Chang >> >> >> On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote: >> >> Thanks Dennis, >> One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the >> implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? >> For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able >> to wrap it up >> rather quickly. >> Best regards, >> Theo >> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >> > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >> > >> > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois >> > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >> includes >> > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >> topic. >> > >> > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >> > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >> > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >> > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the >> > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >> aware, a >> > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries >> > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry >> Registration Data >> > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] >> that was >> > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >> RDAP in >> > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own >> process, we >> > thought it was important to continue progressing the >> implementation >> > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and >> > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >> schedule. >> > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >> > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly >> call the >> > IRT’s attention to it. >> > >> > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >> meeting as >> > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >> > possible. >> > >> > Thank you for your support! >> > >> > — >> > >> > Kind Regards, >> > >> > Dennis S. Chang >> > >> > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >> > >> > +1 213 293 7889 >> > >> > Skype: dennisSchang >> > >> > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" >> > >> > >> > >> > Links: >> > ------ >> > [1] >> > >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

Thanks, Then we continue with the next meeting as planned. I do request we put this item and the draft memo up for discussion also. Not sure if we get to it, if not, no biggie, we discuss it later. But it is imperative that it needs to be discussed. Thanks, Theo On 3-9-2016 22:24, Metalitz, Steven wrote:

To clarify: The Whois conflicts procedure remains unchanged. It is the proposed change to the procedure (relaxation of the trigger requirement) that remains in limbo.

*image001*

*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*

T: 202.355.7902 |met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>**

*Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp**LLP*|*www.msk.com <http://www.msk.com/>*

1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*

*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *theo geurts *Sent:* Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:15 PM *To:* Dennis Chang *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Hi Dennis,

Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways.

You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change.

My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter.

Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them?

Thanks,

Theo

On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:

...

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.

My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.

In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?

Thanks Dennis Chang

On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.

https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf

The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?

Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.

Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?

Best regards,

Theo

On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:

...

Thank you Dennis,

I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.

Theo

On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:

...

Hello Theo,

ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here:

https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...

...

Thanks Dennis Chang

On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl

<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:

...

Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

...

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

—

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

...

...

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If call an unusable proposal a relaxation... Best, Volker Am 03.09.2016 um 22:24 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:

To clarify: The Whois conflicts procedure remains unchanged. It is the proposed change to the procedure (relaxation of the trigger requirement) that remains in limbo.

*image001*

*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*

T: 202.355.7902 |met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>**

*Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp**LLP*|*www.msk.com <http://www.msk.com/>*

1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*

*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *theo geurts *Sent:* Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:15 PM *To:* Dennis Chang *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Hi Dennis,

Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways.

You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change.

My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter.

Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them?

Thanks,

Theo

On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:

...

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.

My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.

In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?

Thanks Dennis Chang

On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.

https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf

The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?

Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.

Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?

Best regards,

Theo

On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:

...

Thank you Dennis,

I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.

Theo

On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:

...

Hello Theo,

ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here:

https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...

...

Thanks Dennis Chang

On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl

<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:

...

Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

...

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

—

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

...

...

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

Hey Roger, I like this definition, thank you for proposing it. I agree this is clearer and reads better being consistent with the Think definition. I support this change. Thanks, Marc From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Roger D Carney Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 2:28 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Good Afternoon, On the call and in my email to the list, I suggested that the definition for Thick (Registrations) could be made clearer and Dennis asked that I provide some language suggestions. So being more consistent with the Thin definition, how about something like: “domain name for which the sponsoring Registrar provides a copy of the associated contact information to the Registry Operator. Registry Operator maintains the technical information (e.g., name servers, statuses, creation date) and the sponsoring Registrar associated with the domain name. Contact information for the domain name is maintained by the sponsoring Registrar.” Thanks Roger From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Chang Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:54 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois IRT, Thank you for your participation and contribution today. Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2. We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document. Same time same day same call in info. Agenda on IRT wiki: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet" From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org<mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org>> Date: Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM To: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"

Dennis, Thank you for sending the updated Transition Policy document. I want to send some feedback on this version prior to Tuesday’s call/discussion. · Roger Carney already mentioned this, but this draft contains no mention of the reduced validation rules the IRT discussed. In fact section 2.4 requires contact operations to be supported as described in RFC 5733 which prescribes required fields. This would prevent the implementation of reduced validation rules. · Section 2.10 mentions Registrant/Admin/Tech contact types but does not mention the billing contact type at all. For clarity, I would like to request the policy explicitly state if the Billing contact is required, optional, disallowed or left to the Registry to decide. · Noting Theo’s comments about the Implementation Notes, I would like to suggest a link to the procedure be added to that section. Thank you, Marc Anderson From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Chang Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 5:54 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois IRT, Thank you for your participation and contribution today. Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2. We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document. Same time same day same call in info. Agenda on IRT wiki: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet" From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org<mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org>> Date: Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM To: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"

How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"? Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

Hello all,

/1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN’s Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. /

We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.

The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.

What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.

Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: /Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!/

Thanks, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

...

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en>] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

—

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:

That might be a way forward Volker.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en

However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.

I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.

I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.

Theo

Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:

...

How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?

Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

Hello all,

_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _

We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.

The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.

What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.

Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_

Thanks, Theo

Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

--

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org [2] "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

...

...

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:

Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.

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*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM *To:* gtheo *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)

Best,

Volker

Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:

...

That might be a way forward Volker.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en

...

However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.

I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.

I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.

Theo

Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:

...

How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?

Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

Hello all,

_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _

We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.

The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.

What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.

Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_

Thanks, Theo

Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

--

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> [2] "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

...

...

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org

<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>

...

...

...

https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>

Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann - legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>

Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>

CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum.... Best regards, Marika Marika Konings Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: marika.konings@icann.org Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages. From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> Date: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 To: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM To: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com Mitchell Silberberg & KnuppLLP | www.msk.com 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM To: gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:

That might be a way forward Volker.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en

However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.

I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.

I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.

Theo

Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:

...

How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?

Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

Hello all,

_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _

We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.

The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.

What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.

Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_

Thanks, Theo

Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

--

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org [2] "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

...

...

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here. Few things that stood out. It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are. Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us. What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)? Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names. 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats. 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc). 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar. I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long. Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA. One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period. Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment. Thank you for making it this far. Theo theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:

Thanks, Marika,

I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.

In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.

Best regards,

Theo

On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:

...

And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....

Best regards,

Marika

MARIKA KONINGS

Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)

Email: marika.konings@icann.org

_ _

_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_

_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._

FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.

STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]

1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.

FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.

Best,

Volker

Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:

Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.

STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]

1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.

FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)

Best,

Volker

Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: That might be a way forward Volker.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en

However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.

I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.

I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.

Theo

Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:

How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with

...

local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?

Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

Hello all,

_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry

...

Operators and Registrars. _

We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we

...

can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling

...

with this section for a few now.

The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the

...

discussions we had about this in the last few months.

What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address,

...

yet this IRT relies on it.

Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something

...

like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars

...

and Registrants the best of luck!_

Thanks, Theo

Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois

...

Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the

...

Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries

...

Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]]

...

that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process,

...

we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and

...

announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call

...

the IRT's attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

--

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1 [3]]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt

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Hi Steve, et al. I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP. However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to us anyways. Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is that complex. I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff. This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for .Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006. I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more info on: -how does it work? -what are the timelines? -expected duration? -what are the practical issues? -etc If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and make it work? The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it may be a path forward for us. Best regards, Theo Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:

Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:

(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?

(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?

(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?

In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?

STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [3]

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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.

Few things that stood out.

It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.

Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.

What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?

Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.

2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.

3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).

4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.

I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.

Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.

One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.

Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.

Thank you for making it this far.

Theo

theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:

...

Thanks, Marika,

I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.

In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.

Best regards,

Theo

On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:

And it can be found here:

https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....

...

Best regards,

Marika

MARIKA KONINGS

Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)

Email: marika.konings@icann.org

_ _

_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_

_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._

FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.

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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.

Best,

Volker

Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:

Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.

STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]

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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.

FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)

Best,

Volker

Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:

That might be a way forward Volker.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en

...

However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to

obtain

one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some

governments

displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record

speed

law wise.

I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at

risk.

-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.

I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the

IRT to

fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention

RDAP.

Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it

comes

to Thin WHOIS Registries.

Theo

Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:

How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts

with

local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?

Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

Hello all,

_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for

Registry

Operators and Registrars. _

We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see

if we

can have some discussion in advance about this as I am

struggling

with this section for a few now.

The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after

the

discussions we had about this in the last few months.

What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to

address,

yet this IRT relies on it.

Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says

something

like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the

Registrars

and Registrants the best of luck!_

Thanks, Theo

Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick

Whois

Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.

As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and

the

Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the

Registries

Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1

[1]]

that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own

process,

we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September

and

announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly

call

the IRT's attention to it.

We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.

Thank you for your support!

--

Kind Regards,

Dennis S. Chang

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

+1 213 293 7889

Skype: dennisSchang

www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"

Links: ------ [1 [3]]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en

...

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Having supported the Thick WHOIS PDP WG, I believe most if not all of its members were well aware of the work that was ongoing in parallel, but nevertheless the assumption was that it could take some time for that work to complete and that any transition to a new model/system would be easier if all registries would be operating under the same model. It is also one of the questions that is included in the RDS PDP WG Charter: Coexistence: What steps should be taken to enable next-generation RDS coexistence with and replacement of the legacy WHOIS system? Of course, I am happy to stand corrected if my recollection is wrong. Best regards, Marika On 09/09/16 03:40, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:     Hi Steve,         I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a possibility     made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the PDP WG     deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common whois     system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on     establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on the     horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group is trying     to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately end up     being superseded.         This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model. Limit     the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For example,     who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the same     can be achieved with existing means.         All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the very     real possibility that we are working on something ultimately destined     the trash can.         Best regards,     Volker              Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo:     >     > Hi Steve, et al.     >     > I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my     > part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing     > up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is     > currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything     > is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP.     >     > However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to     > us anyways.     > Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is     > that complex.     >     > I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on     > that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff.     >     > This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for     > .Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal     > with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are     > currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard     > they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is     > no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006.     >     > I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD     > to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more     > info on:     > -how does it work?     > -what are the timelines?     > -expected duration?     > -what are the practical issues?     > -etc     >     > If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and     > make it work?     >     > The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it     > may be a path forward for us.     >     > Best regards,     >     > Theo     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     >     > Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:     >> Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc     >> last week about his draft memo:     >>     >>  (1)     The first two developments to which you cite are the     >> invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the     >> EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it.  My impression is that    >> US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in     >> processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing     >> personally identifiable information from European registrars and     >> making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have     >> been directly impacted by its invalidation.   Is my impression wrong?     >> If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor     >> or the Privacy Shield in this context?     >>     >>  (2)    The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from     >> EU privacy/data protection laws.  Can you be more specific?  I note     >> that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal    >> review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not     >> covered by that analysis?     >>     >>  (3)    If the IRT were to send this letter,  the GNSO council might     >> well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you     >> respond?     >>     >> In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would     >> be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working     >> Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board,     >> it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing     >> it.”  Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support     >> that?     >>     >> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION     >>     >> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com     >>     >> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [3]     >>     >> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036     >>     >> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR     >> THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS     >> MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS     >> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN     >> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,     >> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY     >> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE,     >> AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM.     >> THANK YOU.     >>     >> FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl]     >> SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM     >> TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann'     >> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org     >> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick     >> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS     >>     >> Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.     >>     >> Few things that stood out.     >>     >> It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but     >> Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I     >> would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a     >> possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences     >> are.     >>     >> Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review     >> does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.     >>     >> What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal     >> review (page5)?     >>     >> Let me list them:     >>   1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration     >> properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience     >> long-term technical failures rendering     >> them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois     >> have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the     >> registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that     >> registrants could continue to manage their domain names.     >>     >>   2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display     >> formats.     >>     >>   3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of     >> data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at     >> all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of     >> Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders,     >> etc).     >>     >>   4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has     >> typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the     >> registrar.     >>     >> I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point     >> that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.     >>     >>   Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations.  The reasoning in     >> point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid.     >>   Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP     >> policy released in 2015.     >>   Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved.     >> Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.     >>     >> One could almost argue there are no benefits.  Not sure if you guys     >> want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for     >> the comment period.     >>     >>  Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is     >> the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but     >> it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable     >> procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would     >> solve our impediment.     >>     >> Thank you for making it this far.     >>     >> Theo     >>     >> theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:     >>     >>> Thanks, Marika,     >>>     >>> I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right.     >>> Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already     >>> warned     >>> us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign     >>> prepared     >>> does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How     >>> many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been     >>> invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit     >>> or     >>> Trump running for president.     >>>     >>> In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up     >>> to     >>> this IRT.  We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a     >>> few     >>> impediments.     >>>     >>> Best regards,     >>>     >>> Theo     >>>     >>> On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:     >>>     >>> And it can be found here:     >>>     >>>     >> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....     >>     >>>     >>>     >>> Best regards,     >>>     >>> Marika     >>>     >>> MARIKA KONINGS     >>>     >>> Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet     >>> Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)     >>>     >>> Email: marika.konings@icann.org     >>>     >>> _ _     >>>     >>> _Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_     >>>     >>> _Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10     >>> [1]]     >>> and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._     >>>     >>> FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of     >>> "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com>     >>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44     >>> TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo     >>> <gtheo@xs4all.nl>     >>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"     >>> <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>     >>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick     >>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS     >>>     >>> That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.     >>>     >>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION     >>>     >>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com     >>>     >>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]     >>>     >>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036     >>>     >>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY     >>> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS.     >>> THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS     >>> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN     >>> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,     >>> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY     >>> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR     >>> TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM     >>> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.     >>>     >>> FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net]     >>> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM     >>> TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo     >>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org     >>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick     >>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS     >>>     >>> Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal     >>> review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation     >>> on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions     >>> may well become relevant to such a review.     >>>     >>> Best,     >>>     >>> Volker     >>>     >>> Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:     >>>     >>> Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.     >>>     >>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION     >>>     >>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com     >>>     >>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]     >>>     >>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036     >>>     >>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY     >>> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED     >>> RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION,     >>> AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS     >>> MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT     >>> ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS     >>> MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY     >>> REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL     >>> ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.     >>>     >>> FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org     >>> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF     >>> Volker Greimann     >>> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM     >>> TO: gtheo     >>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org     >>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft     >>> Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS     >>>     >>> Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an     >>> excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess.     >>> An     >>> Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon     >>> be     >>> another one of those. ;-)     >>>     >>> Best,     >>>     >>> Volker     >>>     >>> Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:     >>>     >>> That might be a way forward Volker.     >>>     >>>     >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en     >>     >>>     >>>     >>> However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to     >>>     >>> obtain     >>>     >>> one.     >>> The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some     >>>     >>> governments     >>>     >>> displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record     >>>     >>> speed     >>>     >>> law wise.     >>>     >>> I guess the problem boils down to this.     >>> -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at     >>>     >>> risk.     >>>     >>> -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline.     >>> -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.     >>>     >>> I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the     >>>     >>> IRT to     >>>     >>> fix this as it is out of scope.     >>> Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention     >>>     >>> RDAP.     >>>     >>> Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it     >>>     >>> comes     >>>     >>> to Thin WHOIS Registries.     >>>     >>> Theo     >>>     >>> Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:     >>>     >>> How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts     >>>     >>> with     >>>     >>> local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention     >>> specification"?     >>>     >>> Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:     >>>     >>> Hello all,     >>>     >>> _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and     >>> requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for     >>> Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for     >>>     >>> Registry     >>>     >>> Operators and Registrars. _     >>>     >>> We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see     >>>     >>> if we     >>>     >>> can have some discussion in advance about this as I am     >>>     >>> struggling     >>>     >>> with this section for a few now.     >>>     >>> The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after     >>>     >>> the     >>>     >>> discussions we had about this in the last few months.     >>>     >>> What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of     >>> moving forward to the comment period.     >>> The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to     >>>     >>> address,     >>>     >>> yet this IRT relies on it.     >>>     >>> Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says     >>>     >>> something     >>>     >>> like:     >>> _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the     >>>     >>> Registrars     >>>     >>> and Registrants the best of luck!_     >>>     >>> Thanks,     >>> Theo     >>>     >>> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:     >>>     >>> Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,     >>>     >>> Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick     >>>     >>> Whois     >>>     >>> Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy     >>> includes     >>> the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this     >>> topic.     >>>     >>> As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four     >>> sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are     >>> bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data     >>> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and     >>>     >>> the     >>>     >>> Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be     >>> aware, a     >>> Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the     >>>     >>> Registries     >>>     >>> Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration     >>> Data     >>> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1     >>>     >>> [1]]     >>>     >>> that was     >>> published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of     >>> RDAP in     >>> the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own     >>>     >>> process,     >>>     >>> we     >>> thought it was important to continue progressing the     >>> implementation     >>> project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September     >>>     >>> and     >>>     >>> announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our     >>> schedule.     >>> Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited     >>> pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly     >>>     >>> call     >>>     >>> the     >>> IRT's attention to it.     >>>     >>> We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT     >>> meeting as     >>> a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if     >>> possible.     >>>     >>> Thank you for your support!     >>>     >>> --     >>>     >>> Kind Regards,     >>>     >>> Dennis S. Chang     >>>     >>> GDD Services & Engagement Program Director     >>>     >>> +1 213 293 7889     >>>     >>> Skype: dennisSchang     >>>     >>> www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"     >>>     >>> Links:     >>> ------     >>> [1 [3]]     >>     >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en     >>     >>     >>> _______________________________________________     >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list     >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org     >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt     >>>     >>> _______________________________________________     >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list     >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org     >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt     >>     >> --     >> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.     >>     >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,     >>     >> Volker A. Greimann     >> - Rechtsabteilung -     >>     >> Key-Systems GmbH     >> Im Oberen Werk 1     >> 66386 St. Ingbert     >> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901     >> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851     >> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net     >>     >> Web: www.key-systems.net [5] [3 [5]] / www.RRPproxy.net [6] [4 [6]]     >> www.domaindiscount24.com [7] [5 [7]] / www.BrandShelter.com [8] [6     >> [8]]     >>     >> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:     >> www.facebook.com/KeySystems [9] [7 [9]]     >> www.twitter.com/key_systems [10] [8 [10]]     >>     >> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin     >> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken     >> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534     >>     >> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP     >> www.keydrive.lu [11] [9 [11]]     >>     >> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den     >> angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe,     >> Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger     >> ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt     >> sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch     >> in Verbindung zu setzen.     >>     >> --------------------------------------------     >>     >> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to     >> contact us.     >>     >> Best regards,     >>     >> Volker A. Greimann     >> - legal department -     >>     >> Key-Systems GmbH     >> Im Oberen Werk 1     >> 66386 St. Ingbert     >> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901     >> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851     >> Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net     >>     >> Web: www.key-systems.net [5] [3 [5]] / www.RRPproxy.net [6] [4 [6]]     >> www.domaindiscount24.com [7] [5 [7]] / www.BrandShelter.com [8] [6     >> [8]]     >>     >> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and     >> stay updated:     >> www.facebook.com/KeySystems [9] [7 [9]]     >> www.twitter.com/key_systems [10] [8 [10]]     >>     >> CEO: Alexander Siffrin     >> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken     >> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534     >>     >> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP     >> www.keydrive.lu [11] [9 [11]]     >>     >> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to     >> whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish     >> any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print     >> or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has     >> misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to     >> this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.     >>     >> _______________________________________________     >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list     >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org     >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt     >>     >> --     >>    >> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.     >>     >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,     >>     >> Volker A. 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Wich new design and implementation requirements are you talking about Volker? Thanks. Theo Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-09 04:13 PM:

Well, I was a member of the PDP and when I supported a switch, I assumed this would be a quick thing:

The legal issues would be sorted, the remaining thin registries would set up thick whois servers, get a data dump from the registrars and after a short switchover time, registrars would updated their EPP protocols to a standard used by currently thick registries and afterward, a delta file would be sent for final changes. Quick and dirty and very cheap to implement.

I did not imagine that everyone would try to reinvent the wheel in the implementation process. EPP is pretty much standardized, registrars use EPP to send registration data to thick registries. The same implementation could be used for the currently thin registries.

Of course we were aware that RDS would be coming at some point, so no one even considered that this be overdesigned and complicated beyond belief as it would only be for a short period of time. The more complicated it gets and the more implementation time and cost expenditure is invested, the more you remove the basic common sense understanding of making this change.

I still favor a change to thick over thin, but for all our sakes, make it as easy as possible without adding new design and implementation requirements. Use what we already have and be done with it.

Best,

Volker

Am 09.09.2016 um 15:43 schrieb Marika Konings:

...

Having supported the Thick WHOIS PDP WG, I believe most if not all of its members were well aware of the work that was ongoing in parallel, but nevertheless the assumption was that it could take some time for that work to complete and that any transition to a new model/system would be easier if all registries would be operating under the same model. It is also one of the questions that is included in the RDS PDP WG Charter: Coexistence: What steps should be taken to enable next-generation RDS coexistence with and replacement of the legacy WHOIS system?

Of course, I am happy to stand corrected if my recollection is wrong.

Best regards,

Marika

On 09/09/16 03:40, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:

Hi Steve,

I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a possibility

made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the PDP WG

deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common whois

system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on

establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on the

horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group is trying

to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately end up

being superseded.

This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model. Limit

the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For example,

who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the same

can be achieved with existing means.

All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the very

real possibility that we are working on something ultimately destined

the trash can.

Best regards,

Volker

Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo:

...

...

Hi Steve, et al.

...

...

I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my

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part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing

...

up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is

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currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything

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is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP.

...

...

However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to

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us anyways.

...

Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is

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that complex.

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...

I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on

...

that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff.

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...

This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for

...

.Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal

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with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are

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currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard

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they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is

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no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006.

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...

I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD

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to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more

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info on:

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-how does it work?

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-what are the timelines?

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-expected duration?

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-what are the practical issues?

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-etc

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If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and

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make it work?

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The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it

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may be a path forward for us.

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...

Best regards,

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Theo

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Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:

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...

Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc

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last week about his draft memo:

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...

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...

(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the

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invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the

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EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that

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US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in

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processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing

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personally identifiable information from European registrars and

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making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have

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been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong?

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If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor

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or the Privacy Shield in this context?

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(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from

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EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note

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that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal

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review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not

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covered by that analysis?

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(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might

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well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you

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respond?

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In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would

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be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working

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Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board,

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it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing

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it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support

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that?

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...

...

...

STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

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...

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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

...

...

...

...

MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [3]

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...

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...

1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

...

...

...

...

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR

...

...

THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS

...

...

MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS

...

...

PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN

...

...

INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,

...

...

DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY

...

...

PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE,

...

...

AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM.

...

...

THANK YOU.

...

...

...

...

FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl]

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...

SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM

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...

TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann'

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CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org

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...

SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick

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Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

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Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.

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Few things that stood out.

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It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but

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Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I

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would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a

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possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences

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are.

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Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review

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does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.

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What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal

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review (page5)?

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Let me list them:

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1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration

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properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience

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long-term technical failures rendering

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them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois

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have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the

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registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that

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registrants could continue to manage their domain names.

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2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display

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formats.

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3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of

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data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at

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all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of

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Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders,

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etc).

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4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has

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typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the

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registrar.

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I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point

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that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.

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Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in

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point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid.

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Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP

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policy released in 2015.

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Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved.

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Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.

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One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys

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want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for

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the comment period.

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...

Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is

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the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but

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it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable

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procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would

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solve our impediment.

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Thank you for making it this far.

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...

Theo

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theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:

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Thanks, Marika,

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I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right.

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Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already

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warned

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us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign

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prepared

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does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How

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many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been

...

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invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit

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or

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Trump running for president.

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In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up

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to

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this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a

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few

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impediments.

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Best regards,

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Theo

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On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:

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And it can be found here:

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https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....

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Best regards,

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Marika

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MARIKA KONINGS

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Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet

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Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)

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Email: marika.konings@icann.org

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_ _

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_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_

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_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10

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[1]]

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and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._

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FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of

...

...

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"Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com>

...

...

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DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44

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...

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TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo

...

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<gtheo@xs4all.nl>

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...

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CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"

...

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<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>

...

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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick

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Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

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That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.

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STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

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...

...

...

...

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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

...

...

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MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [2] [1 [3]]

...

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...

...

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...

1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

...

...

...

...

...

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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY

...

...

...

FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS.

...

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...

THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS

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...

...

PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN

...

...

...

INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,

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DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY

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PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR

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TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM

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YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.

...

...

...

...

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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net]

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SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM

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TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo

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CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org

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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick

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Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

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Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal

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review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation

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on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions

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may well become relevant to such a review.

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Best,

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Volker

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Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:

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Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.

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STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION

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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com

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MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [2] [1 [3]]

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1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036

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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY

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RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION,

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AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS

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ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS

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MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY

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REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL

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ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.

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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org

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[mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF

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Volker Greimann

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SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM

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TO: gtheo

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CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org

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SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft

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Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS

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Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an

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excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess.

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An

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Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon

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be

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another one of those. ;-)

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Best,

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Volker

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Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:

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That might be a way forward Volker.

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https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en

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However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to

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obtain

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one.

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The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some

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governments

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displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record

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speed

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law wise.

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I guess the problem boils down to this.

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-Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at

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risk.

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-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline.

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-There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.

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I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the

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IRT to

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fix this as it is out of scope.

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Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention

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RDAP.

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Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it

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comes

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to Thin WHOIS Registries.

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Theo

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Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:

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How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts

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with

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local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention

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specification"?

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Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:

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Hello all,

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_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and

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requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for

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Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for

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Registry

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Operators and Registrars. _

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We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see

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if we

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can have some discussion in advance about this as I am

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struggling

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with this section for a few now.

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The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after

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the

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discussions we had about this in the last few months.

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What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of

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moving forward to the comment period.

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The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to

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address,

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yet this IRT relies on it.

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Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says

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something

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like:

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_Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the

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Registrars

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and Registrants the best of luck!_

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Thanks,

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Theo

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...

Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:

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Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,

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Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick

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Whois

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Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy

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includes

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the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this

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topic.

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As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four

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sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are

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bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data

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Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and

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the

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Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be

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aware, a

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Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the

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Registries

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Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration

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Data

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Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1

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[1]]

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that was

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published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of

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RDAP in

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the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own

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process,

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we

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thought it was important to continue progressing the

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...

implementation

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...

project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September

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and

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...

announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our

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schedule.

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Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited

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pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly

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call

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the

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IRT's attention to it.

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We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT

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...

meeting as

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...

a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if

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...

...

possible.

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...

Thank you for your support!

...

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...

...

...

...

--

...

...

...

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...

Kind Regards,

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...

...

...

...

...

Dennis S. Chang

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...

GDD Services & Engagement Program Director

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...

+1 213 293 7889

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...

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...

Skype: dennisSchang

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...

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Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4] www.domaindiscount24.com [5] / www.BrandShelter.com [6]

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems [7] www.twitter.com/key_systems [8]

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu [9]

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Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann - legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4] www.domaindiscount24.com [5] / www.BrandShelter.com [6]

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems [7] www.twitter.com/key_systems [8]

CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu [9]

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Links: ------ [1] http://WWW.MSK.COM [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.key-systems.net [4] http://www.RRPproxy.net [5] http://www.domaindiscount24.com [6] http://www.BrandShelter.com [7] http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems [8] http://www.twitter.com/key_systems [9] http://www.keydrive.lu