[for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org "One World, One Internet"
Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Hello Theo, ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-... Thanks Dennis Chang On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote: Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, > > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. > > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we > thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the > IRT’s attention to it. > > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if > possible. > > Thank you for your support! > > — > > Kind Regards, > > Dennis S. Chang > > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director > > +1 213 293 7889 > > Skype: dennisSchang > > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Thank you Dennis, I'll give it a read as soon I have the time. Theo On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hello Theo,
ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Thanks Dennis,
One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link?
For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly.
Best regards,
Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, > > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. > > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we > thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the > IRT’s attention to it. > > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if > possible. > > Thank you for your support! > > — > > Kind Regards, > > Dennis S. Chang > > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director > > +1 213 293 7889 > > Skype: dennisSchang > > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Hi Dennis, It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting. https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise? Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party. Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed? Best regards, Theo On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:
Thank you Dennis,
I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.
Theo
On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hello Theo,
ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, > > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. > > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we > thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the > IRT’s attention to it. > > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if > possible. > > Thank you for your support! > > — > > Kind Regards, > > Dennis S. Chang > > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director > > +1 213 293 7889 > > Skype: dennisSchang > > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Hi Theo, Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course. My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place. In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed? Thanks Dennis Chang On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote: Hi Dennis, It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting. https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise? Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party. Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed? Best regards, Theo On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote: > Thank you Dennis, > > I'll give it a read as soon I have the time. > > Theo > > On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote: >> Hello Theo, >> >> ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law >> mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: >> https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-... >> >> >> >> Thanks >> Dennis Chang >> >> >> On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote: >> >> Thanks Dennis, >> One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the >> implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? >> For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able >> to wrap it up >> rather quickly. >> Best regards, >> Theo >> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >> > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >> > >> > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois >> > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >> includes >> > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >> topic. >> > >> > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >> > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >> > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >> > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the >> > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >> aware, a >> > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries >> > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry >> Registration Data >> > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] >> that was >> > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >> RDAP in >> > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own >> process, we >> > thought it was important to continue progressing the >> implementation >> > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and >> > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >> schedule. >> > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >> > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly >> call the >> > IRT’s attention to it. >> > >> > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >> meeting as >> > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >> > possible. >> > >> > Thank you for your support! >> > >> > — >> > >> > Kind Regards, >> > >> > Dennis S. Chang >> > >> > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >> > >> > +1 213 293 7889 >> > >> > Skype: dennisSchang >> > >> > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" >> > >> > >> > >> > Links: >> > ------ >> > [1] >> > >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Hi Dennis, Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways. You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change. My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter. Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them? Thanks, Theo On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Theo,
Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.
My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.
In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Dennis,
It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.
https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf
The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?
Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.
Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?
Best regards,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote: > Thank you Dennis, > > I'll give it a read as soon I have the time. > > Theo > > On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote: >> Hello Theo, >> >> ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law >> mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: >> https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-... >> >> >> >> Thanks >> Dennis Chang >> >> >> On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl> wrote: >> >> Thanks Dennis, >> One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the >> implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? >> For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able >> to wrap it up >> rather quickly. >> Best regards, >> Theo >> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >> > Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >> > >> > Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois >> > Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >> includes >> > the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >> topic. >> > >> > As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >> > sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >> > bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >> > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the >> > Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >> aware, a >> > Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries >> > Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry >> Registration Data >> > Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] >> that was >> > published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >> RDAP in >> > the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own >> process, we >> > thought it was important to continue progressing the >> implementation >> > project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and >> > announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >> schedule. >> > Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >> > pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly >> call the >> > IRT’s attention to it. >> > >> > We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >> meeting as >> > a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >> > possible. >> > >> > Thank you for your support! >> > >> > — >> > >> > Kind Regards, >> > >> > Dennis S. Chang >> > >> > GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >> > >> > +1 213 293 7889 >> > >> > Skype: dennisSchang >> > >> > www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" >> > >> > >> > >> > Links: >> > ------ >> > [1] >> > >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list > Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
To clarify: The Whois conflicts procedure remains unchanged. It is the proposed change to the procedure (relaxation of the trigger requirement) that remains in limbo. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of theo geurts Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:15 PM To: Dennis Chang Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Hi Dennis, Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways. You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change. My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter. Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them? Thanks, Theo On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Theo,
Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.
My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.
In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Hi Dennis,
It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.
The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?
Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.
Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?
Best regards,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:
Thank you Dennis,
I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.
Theo
On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hello Theo,
ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-law<https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-law>
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt>
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt>
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt>
Thanks, Then we continue with the next meeting as planned. I do request we put this item and the draft memo up for discussion also. Not sure if we get to it, if not, no biggie, we discuss it later. But it is imperative that it needs to be discussed. Thanks, Theo On 3-9-2016 22:24, Metalitz, Steven wrote:
To clarify: The Whois conflicts procedure remains unchanged. It is the proposed change to the procedure (relaxation of the trigger requirement) that remains in limbo.
*image001*
*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*
T: 202.355.7902 |met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>**
*Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp**LLP*|*www.msk.com <http://www.msk.com/>*
1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *theo geurts *Sent:* Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:15 PM *To:* Dennis Chang *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Hi Dennis,
Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways.
You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change.
My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter.
Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them?
Thanks,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Theo,
Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.
My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.
In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Hi Dennis,
It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.
https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf
The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?
Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.
Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?
Best regards,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:
Thank you Dennis,
I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.
Theo
On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hello Theo,
ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here:
https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl
<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
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_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Added to the agenda for 6 September 2016 IRT Meeting per your request. https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-6Septembe... * Agenda: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next Steps Thanks Dennis Chang From: theo geurts <gtheo@xs4all.nl> Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 12:06 PM To: "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com>, Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Thanks, Then we continue with the next meeting as planned. I do request we put this item and the draft memo up for discussion also. Not sure if we get to it, if not, no biggie, we discuss it later. But it is imperative that it needs to be discussed. Thanks, Theo On 3-9-2016 22:24, Metalitz, Steven wrote: To clarify: The Whois conflicts procedure remains unchanged. It is the proposed change to the procedure (relaxation of the trigger requirement) that remains in limbo. [mage001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & KnuppLLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of theo geurts Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:15 PM To: Dennis Chang Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Hi Dennis, Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways. You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change. My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter. Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them? Thanks, Theo On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Theo,
Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.
My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.
In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Hi Dennis,
It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.
https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf
The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?
Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.
Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?
Best regards,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:
Thank you Dennis,
I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.
Theo
On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hello Theo,
ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here: https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
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If call an unusable proposal a relaxation... Best, Volker Am 03.09.2016 um 22:24 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
To clarify: The Whois conflicts procedure remains unchanged. It is the proposed change to the procedure (relaxation of the trigger requirement) that remains in limbo.
*image001*
*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*
T: 202.355.7902 |met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>**
*Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp**LLP*|*www.msk.com <http://www.msk.com/>*
1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *theo geurts *Sent:* Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:15 PM *To:* Dennis Chang *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Hi Dennis,
Yes, agreed on the implementation project, we are almost there anyways.
You are correct that there is no change in the procedure at this very moment. But this can change.
My read is, the WHOIS IAG is in limbo due to the withdrawal. But it can be rewritten/reintroduced at the GNSO next meeting, or thereafter.
Regardless what they are going to do, I guess we need some clarity here and the IRT should signal them?
Thanks,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 23:11, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Theo,
Thanks for your attention to this CP. Much appreciated of course.
My understanding is that the GNSO Council considered a possible modification to the existing procedure as recommended by the IAG, but this decision has been deferred. Therefore, no change to the procedure that is currently in place.
In another word, we continue with our implementation project. Agreed?
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 1:13 PM, "theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Hi Dennis,
It just dawned on me that this thing was rather familiar for two reasons. I was an observer on that group and it was discussed yesterday at the GNSO council meeting.
https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-council-01sep16-en.pdf
The motion is currently withdrawn. Where does that leave us draft wise?
Side note for those who are interested. The trigger mentioned in the WHOIS IAG was already tried by the Dutch Registry SIDN (backend operator for .Amsterdam) in 2015. The Dutch Privacy Data Regulator simply replied back :"You know the law, stick to it, we are not going to issue a statement". And that was the end of that. Yes, fun people for sure, they just don't how to party.
Anyhow, all fun talk aside, the WHOIS IAG report is not an option for now since it is in limbo at the GNSO, how do we proceed?
Best regards,
Theo
On 2-9-2016 20:00, theo geurts wrote:
Thank you Dennis,
I'll give it a read as soon I have the time.
Theo
On 2-9-2016 15:47, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hello Theo,
ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law mentioned in the implementation note can be found here:
https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-...
Thanks Dennis Chang
On 9/2/16, 2:19 AM, "gtheo" <gtheo@xs4all.nl
<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Thanks Dennis, One question after a quick read, what procedure is that on the implementation notes on the last page? Do you have a link? For the rest I think we got it covered and should be able to wrap it up rather quickly. Best regards, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Good Afternoon, Thanks to staff for putting this together and giving the IRT time to review. Here are my initial comments on the draft: · Definition of Thick (Registration) – though probably accurate, it seems clunky and may be better stated similar to the definition of Thin. · Section 2.2 – I thought we agreed to remove the bulk option language. · Section 2.10 – We need to add verbiage that allows these fields to remain optional indefinitely for existing registrations. · Section 3.1 – I don’t like the starting date, as it reads Registrars must start the transition this date, which will not be what happens in practice. Some registrars may start on this date but many will start at a later date when their systems are ready. Additionally I wonder if we need to tweak the language “required fields of Existing Domain Names that are available in the Registrar database” to list the three required fields and something like “and any other relevant contact data the Registrar has available in their database”. · Section 3.4 – This section should be removed as this is already required in the RDAP Profile and COM/NET/JOBS are grandfathered until the transition has been completed February 1 2019 (e.g. section 3.5). · Section 3.5 – I think this needs to be specific to COM/NET/JOBS so that it ties more succinctly into the RDAP Profile. That’s all I have for now. Thanks Roger From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Chang Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 7:06 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Dear Thick Whois IRT, Thank you for your participation and contribution today. Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2. We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document. Same time same day same call in info. Agenda on IRT wiki: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org "One World, One Internet" From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org> Date: Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM To: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org "One World, One Internet"
Good Afternoon, On the call and in my email to the list, I suggested that the definition for Thick (Registrations) could be made clearer and Dennis asked that I provide some language suggestions. So being more consistent with the Thin definition, how about something like: “domain name for which the sponsoring Registrar provides a copy of the associated contact information to the Registry Operator. Registry Operator maintains the technical information (e.g., name servers, statuses, creation date) and the sponsoring Registrar associated with the domain name. Contact information for the domain name is maintained by the sponsoring Registrar.” Thanks Roger From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Chang Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:54 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois IRT, Thank you for your participation and contribution today. Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2. We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document. Same time same day same call in info. Agenda on IRT wiki: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet" From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org<mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org>> Date: Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM To: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Hey Roger, I like this definition, thank you for proposing it. I agree this is clearer and reads better being consistent with the Think definition. I support this change. Thanks, Marc From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Roger D Carney Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 2:28 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Good Afternoon, On the call and in my email to the list, I suggested that the definition for Thick (Registrations) could be made clearer and Dennis asked that I provide some language suggestions. So being more consistent with the Thin definition, how about something like: “domain name for which the sponsoring Registrar provides a copy of the associated contact information to the Registry Operator. Registry Operator maintains the technical information (e.g., name servers, statuses, creation date) and the sponsoring Registrar associated with the domain name. Contact information for the domain name is maintained by the sponsoring Registrar.” Thanks Roger From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Chang Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:54 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois IRT, Thank you for your participation and contribution today. Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2. We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document. Same time same day same call in info. Agenda on IRT wiki: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet" From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org<mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org>> Date: Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM To: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Agreed, this is works better Roger. Thanks, Theo On 7-9-2016 20:41, Anderson, Marc wrote:
Hey Roger,
I like this definition, thank you for proposing it. I agree this is clearer and reads better being consistent with the Think definition. I support this change.
Thanks, Marc
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger D Carney *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 2:28 PM *To:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Good Afternoon,
On the call and in my email to the list, I suggested that the definition for Thick (Registrations) could be made clearer and Dennis asked that I provide some language suggestions. So being more consistent with the Thin definition, how about something like: “/domain name for which the sponsoring Registrar provides a copy of the associated contact information to the Registry Operator. Registry Operator maintains the technical information (e.g., name servers, statuses, creation date) and the sponsoring Registrar associated with the domain name. Contact information for the domain name is maintained by the sponsoring Registrar./”
Thanks
Roger
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Chang *Sent:* Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:54 PM *To:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Dear Thick Whois IRT,
Thank you for your participation and contribution today.
Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2.
We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document.
Same time same day same call in info.
Agenda on IRT wiki:
* Transition from thin to thick o Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 o Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
*From: *<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org <mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org>> *Date: *Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM *To: *"gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> *Subject: *[Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services**Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en>__that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Dennis, Thank you for sending the updated Transition Policy document. I want to send some feedback on this version prior to Tuesday’s call/discussion. · Roger Carney already mentioned this, but this draft contains no mention of the reduced validation rules the IRT discussed. In fact section 2.4 requires contact operations to be supported as described in RFC 5733 which prescribes required fields. This would prevent the implementation of reduced validation rules. · Section 2.10 mentions Registrant/Admin/Tech contact types but does not mention the billing contact type at all. For clarity, I would like to request the policy explicitly state if the Billing contact is required, optional, disallowed or left to the Registry to decide. · Noting Theo’s comments about the Implementation Notes, I would like to suggest a link to the procedure be added to that section. Thank you, Marc Anderson From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Chang Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 5:54 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois IRT, Thank you for your participation and contribution today. Attached is the draft policy document we worked on at the meeting together: one version with redline and one clean as V2. We’ll continue the team edit at our meeting next week to finalize the document. Same time same day same call in info. Agenda on IRT wiki: * Transition from thin to thick * Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 * Public Comment readiness * Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) * Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) * Next steps — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet" From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org<mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org>> Date: Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM To: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! — Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Hello all, _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _ We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now. The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months. What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it. Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_ Thanks, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Links: ------ [1] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en [2] http://www.icann.org
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"? Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
/1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN’s Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. /
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: /Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!/
Thanks, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en>] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT’s attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
—
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
That might be a way forward Volker. https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise. I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries. Theo Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4] www.domaindiscount24.com [5] / www.BrandShelter.com [6] Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems [7] www.twitter.com/key_systems [8] Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu [9] Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net [3] / www.RRPproxy.net [4] www.domaindiscount24.com [5] / www.BrandShelter.com [6] Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems [7] www.twitter.com/key_systems [8] CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu [9] This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. Links: ------ [1] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.key-systems.net [4] http://www.RRPproxy.net [5] http://www.domaindiscount24.com [6] http://www.BrandShelter.com [7] http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems [8] http://www.twitter.com/key_systems [9] http://www.keydrive.lu _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM To: gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt>
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
*image001*
*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*
T: 202.355.7902 |met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>**
*Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp**LLP*|*www.msk.com <http://www.msk.com/>*
1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM *To:* gtheo *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>
Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM To: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & KnuppLLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM To: gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt> -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum.... Best regards, Marika Marika Konings Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: marika.konings@icann.org Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages. From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> Date: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 To: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM To: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com Mitchell Silberberg & KnuppLLP | www.msk.com 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM To: gtheo Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [2] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
_______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Thanks, Marika, I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president. In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments. Best regards, Theo On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
*Marika Konings*
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org <mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>
//
/Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO/
/Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses <http://learn.icann.org/courses/gnso> and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages <http://gnso.icann.org/sites/gnso.icann.org/files/gnso/presentations/policy-efforts.htm#newcomers>./
*From: *<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> *Date: *Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 *To: *'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Cc: *"gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
*mage001*
*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>
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*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM *To:* Metalitz, Steven; gtheo *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
*mage001*
*Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>
*Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp**LLP*|*www.msk.com <http://www.msk.com/>*
1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM *To:* gtheo *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: > That might be a way forward Volker. > > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
> > > However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain > one. > The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments > displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed > law wise. > > I guess the problem boils down to this. > -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. > -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. > -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. > > I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to > fix this as it is out of scope. > Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. > Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes > to Thin WHOIS Registries. > > Theo > > > > > > > Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM: > >> How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with >> local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention >> specification"? >> >> Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo: >> >> Hello all, >> >> _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and >> requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for >> Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry >> Operators and Registrars. _ >> >> We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we >> can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling >> with this section for a few now. >> >> The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the >> discussions we had about this in the last few months. >> >> What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of >> moving forward to the comment period. >> The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, >> yet this IRT relies on it. >> >> Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something >> like: >> _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars >> and Registrants the best of luck!_ >> >> Thanks, >> Theo >> >> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >> >> Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >> >> Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois >> Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >> includes >> the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >> topic. >> >> As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >> sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >> bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the >> Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >> aware, a >> Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries >> Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration >> Data >> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] >> that was >> published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >> RDAP in >> the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, >> we >> thought it was important to continue progressing the >> implementation >> project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and >> announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >> schedule. >> Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >> pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call >> the >> IRT's attention to it. >> >> We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >> meeting as >> a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >> possible. >> >> Thank you for your support! >> >> -- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Dennis S. Chang >> >> GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >> >> +1 213 293 7889 >> >> Skype: dennisSchang >> >> www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> [2] "One World, One Internet" >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] > > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >
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Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here. Few things that stood out. It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are. Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us. What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)? Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names. 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats. 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc). 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar. I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long. Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA. One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period. Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment. Thank you for making it this far. Theo theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org
_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]
1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]
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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1 [3]]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
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Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo: (1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context? (2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis? (3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond? In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that? [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM To: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here. Few things that stood out. It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are. Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us. What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)? Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names. 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats. 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc). 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar. I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long. Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA. One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period. Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment. Thank you for making it this far. Theo theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM: Thanks, Marika, I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president. In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments. Best regards, Theo On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote: And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum%20to%20the%20IRT%20-%20Thin%20to%20Thick%20WHOIS%20Transition_Final_2015-06-08.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1434138098000&api=v2<https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum%20to%20the%20IRT%20-%20Thin%20to%20Thick%20WHOIS%20Transition_Final_2015-06-08.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1434138098000&api=v2>. Best regards, Marika MARIKA KONINGS Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org> _ _ _Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_ _Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10<http://learn.icann.org/courses/gnso>] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._ FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM<http://WWW.MSK.COM> [1<http://www.msk.com/>] 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM<http://WWW.MSK.COM> [1<http://www.msk.com/>] 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: That might be a way forward Volker. https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en> However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise. I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries. Theo Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM: How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"? Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo: Hello all, _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _ We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now. The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months. What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it. Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_ Thanks, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! -- Kind Regards, Dennis S. Chang GDD Services & Engagement Program Director +1 213 293 7889 Skype: dennisSchang www.icann.org<http://www.icann.org> [2<http://www.icann.org>] [2<http://www.icann.org>] "One World, One Internet" Links: ------ [1<http://www.msk.com/>] https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en> _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt> _______________________________________________ Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt> -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. 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Hi Steve, et al. I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP. However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to us anyways. Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is that complex. I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff. This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for .Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006. I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more info on: -how does it work? -what are the timelines? -expected duration? -what are the practical issues? -etc If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and make it work? The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it may be a path forward for us. Best regards, Theo Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org
_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1 [3]]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
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Hi Steve, I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a possibility made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the PDP WG deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common whois system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on the horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group is trying to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately end up being superseded. This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model. Limit the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For example, who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the same can be achieved with existing means. All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the very real possibility that we are working on something ultimately destined the trash can. Best regards, Volker Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo:
Hi Steve, et al.
I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP.
However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to us anyways. Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is that complex.
I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff.
This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for .Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006.
I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more info on: -how does it work? -what are the timelines? -expected duration? -what are the practical issues? -etc
If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and make it work?
The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it may be a path forward for us.
Best regards,
Theo
Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
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FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
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Having supported the Thick WHOIS PDP WG, I believe most if not all of its members were well aware of the work that was ongoing in parallel, but nevertheless the assumption was that it could take some time for that work to complete and that any transition to a new model/system would be easier if all registries would be operating under the same model. It is also one of the questions that is included in the RDS PDP WG Charter: Coexistence: What steps should be taken to enable next-generation RDS coexistence with and replacement of the legacy WHOIS system? Of course, I am happy to stand corrected if my recollection is wrong. Best regards, Marika On 09/09/16 03:40, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote: Hi Steve, I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a possibility made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the PDP WG deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common whois system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on the horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group is trying to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately end up being superseded. This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model. Limit the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For example, who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the same can be achieved with existing means. All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the very real possibility that we are working on something ultimately destined the trash can. Best regards, Volker Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo: > > Hi Steve, et al. > > I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my > part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing > up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is > currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything > is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP. > > However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to > us anyways. > Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is > that complex. > > I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on > that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff. > > This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for > .Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal > with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are > currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard > they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is > no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006. > > I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD > to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more > info on: > -how does it work? > -what are the timelines? > -expected duration? > -what are the practical issues? > -etc > > If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and > make it work? > > The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it > may be a path forward for us. > > Best regards, > > Theo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM: >> Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc >> last week about his draft memo: >> >> (1) The first two developments to which you cite are the >> invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the >> EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that >> US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in >> processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing >> personally identifiable information from European registrars and >> making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have >> been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? >> If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor >> or the Privacy Shield in this context? >> >> (2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from >> EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note >> that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal >> review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not >> covered by that analysis? >> >> (3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might >> well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you >> respond? >> >> In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would >> be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working >> Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, >> it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing >> it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support >> that? >> >> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION >> >> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com >> >> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [3] >> >> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 >> >> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR >> THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS >> MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS >> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN >> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, >> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY >> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, >> AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. >> THANK YOU. >> >> FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] >> SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM >> TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' >> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick >> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >> >> Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here. >> >> Few things that stood out. >> >> It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but >> Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I >> would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a >> possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences >> are. >> >> Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review >> does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us. >> >> What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal >> review (page5)? >> >> Let me list them: >> 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration >> properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience >> long-term technical failures rendering >> them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois >> have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the >> registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that >> registrants could continue to manage their domain names. >> >> 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display >> formats. >> >> 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of >> data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at >> all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of >> Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, >> etc). >> >> 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has >> typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the >> registrar. >> >> I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point >> that this migration has been in the freezer for too long. >> >> Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in >> point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. >> Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP >> policy released in 2015. >> Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. >> Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA. >> >> One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys >> want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for >> the comment period. >> >> Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is >> the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but >> it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable >> procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would >> solve our impediment. >> >> Thank you for making it this far. >> >> Theo >> >> theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM: >> >>> Thanks, Marika, >>> >>> I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. >>> Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already >>> warned >>> us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign >>> prepared >>> does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How >>> many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been >>> invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit >>> or >>> Trump running for president. >>> >>> In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up >>> to >>> this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a >>> few >>> impediments. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Theo >>> >>> On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote: >>> >>> And it can be found here: >>> >>> >> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum.... >> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Marika >>> >>> MARIKA KONINGS >>> >>> Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet >>> Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) >>> >>> Email: marika.konings@icann.org >>> >>> _ _ >>> >>> _Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_ >>> >>> _Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 >>> [1]] >>> and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._ >>> >>> FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of >>> "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> >>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 >>> TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo >>> <gtheo@xs4all.nl> >>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" >>> <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick >>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >>> >>> That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. >>> >>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION >>> >>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com >>> >>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]] >>> >>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 >>> >>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY >>> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. >>> THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS >>> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN >>> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, >>> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY >>> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR >>> TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM >>> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. >>> >>> FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] >>> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM >>> TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo >>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick >>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >>> >>> Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal >>> review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation >>> on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions >>> may well become relevant to such a review. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Volker >>> >>> Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: >>> >>> Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. >>> >>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION >>> >>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com >>> >>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]] >>> >>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 >>> >>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY >>> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED >>> RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, >>> AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS >>> MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT >>> ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS >>> MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY >>> REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL >>> ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. >>> >>> FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org >>> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF >>> Volker Greimann >>> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM >>> TO: gtheo >>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft >>> Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >>> >>> Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an >>> excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. >>> An >>> Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon >>> be >>> another one of those. ;-) >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Volker >>> >>> Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: >>> >>> That might be a way forward Volker. >>> >>> >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en >> >>> >>> >>> However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to >>> >>> obtain >>> >>> one. >>> The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some >>> >>> governments >>> >>> displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record >>> >>> speed >>> >>> law wise. >>> >>> I guess the problem boils down to this. >>> -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at >>> >>> risk. >>> >>> -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. >>> -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. >>> >>> I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the >>> >>> IRT to >>> >>> fix this as it is out of scope. >>> Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention >>> >>> RDAP. >>> >>> Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it >>> >>> comes >>> >>> to Thin WHOIS Registries. >>> >>> Theo >>> >>> Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM: >>> >>> How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts >>> >>> with >>> >>> local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention >>> specification"? >>> >>> Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and >>> requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for >>> Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for >>> >>> Registry >>> >>> Operators and Registrars. _ >>> >>> We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see >>> >>> if we >>> >>> can have some discussion in advance about this as I am >>> >>> struggling >>> >>> with this section for a few now. >>> >>> The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after >>> >>> the >>> >>> discussions we had about this in the last few months. >>> >>> What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of >>> moving forward to the comment period. >>> The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to >>> >>> address, >>> >>> yet this IRT relies on it. >>> >>> Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says >>> >>> something >>> >>> like: >>> _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the >>> >>> Registrars >>> >>> and Registrants the best of luck!_ >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Theo >>> >>> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >>> >>> Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >>> >>> Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick >>> >>> Whois >>> >>> Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >>> includes >>> the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >>> topic. >>> >>> As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >>> sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >>> bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >>> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and >>> >>> the >>> >>> Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >>> aware, a >>> Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the >>> >>> Registries >>> >>> Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration >>> Data >>> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 >>> >>> [1]] >>> >>> that was >>> published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >>> RDAP in >>> the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own >>> >>> process, >>> >>> we >>> thought it was important to continue progressing the >>> implementation >>> project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September >>> >>> and >>> >>> announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >>> schedule. >>> Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >>> pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly >>> >>> call >>> >>> the >>> IRT's attention to it. >>> >>> We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >>> meeting as >>> a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >>> possible. >>> >>> Thank you for your support! >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Dennis S. Chang >>> >>> GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >>> >>> +1 213 293 7889 >>> >>> Skype: dennisSchang >>> >>> www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet" >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1 [3]] >> >> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> -- >> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. >> >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen, >> >> Volker A. 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Well, I was a member of the PDP and when I supported a switch, I assumed this would be a quick thing: The legal issues would be sorted, the remaining thin registries would set up thick whois servers, get a data dump from the registrars and after a short switchover time, registrars would updated their EPP protocols to a standard used by currently thick registries and afterward, a delta file would be sent for final changes. Quick and dirty and very cheap to implement. I did not imagine that everyone would try to reinvent the wheel in the implementation process. EPP is pretty much standardized, registrars use EPP to send registration data to thick registries. The same implementation could be used for the currently thin registries. Of course we were aware that RDS would be coming at some point, so no one even considered that this be overdesigned and complicated beyond belief as it would only be for a short period of time. The more complicated it gets and the more implementation time and cost expenditure is invested, the more you remove the basic common sense understanding of making this change. I still favor a change to thick over thin, but for all our sakes, make it as easy as possible without adding new design and implementation requirements. Use what we already have and be done with it. Best, Volker Am 09.09.2016 um 15:43 schrieb Marika Konings:
Having supported the Thick WHOIS PDP WG, I believe most if not all of its members were well aware of the work that was ongoing in parallel, but nevertheless the assumption was that it could take some time for that work to complete _and_ that any transition to a new model/system would be easier if all registries would be operating under the same model. It is also one of the questions that is included in the RDS PDP WG Charter: Coexistence: What steps should be taken to enable next-generation RDS coexistence with and replacement of the legacy WHOIS system?
Of course, I am happy to stand corrected if my recollection is wrong.
Best regards,
Marika
On 09/09/16 03:40, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Hi Steve,
I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a possibility
made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the PDP WG
deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common whois
system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on
establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on the
horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group is trying
to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately end up
being superseded.
This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model. Limit
the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For example,
who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the same
can be achieved with existing means.
All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the very
real possibility that we are working on something ultimately destined
the trash can.
Best regards,
Volker
Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo:
>
> Hi Steve, et al.
>
> I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my
> part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing
> up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is
> currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything
> is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP.
>
> However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to
> us anyways.
> Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is
> that complex.
>
> I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on
> that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff.
>
> This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for
> .Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal
> with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are
> currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard
> they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is
> no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006.
>
> I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD
> to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more
> info on:
> -how does it work?
> -what are the timelines?
> -expected duration?
> -what are the practical issues?
> -etc
>
> If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and
> make it work?
>
> The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it
> may be a path forward for us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Theo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
>> Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc
>> last week about his draft memo:
>>
>> (1) The first two developments to which you cite are the
>> invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the
>> EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that
US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in
>> processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing
>> personally identifiable information from European registrars and
>> making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have
>> been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong?
>> If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor
>> or the Privacy Shield in this context?
>>
>> (2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from
>> EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note
>> that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal
review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not
>> covered by that analysis?
>>
>> (3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might
>> well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you
>> respond?
>>
>> In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would
>> be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working
>> Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board,
>> it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing
>> it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support
>> that?
>>
>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
>>
>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
>>
>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [3]
>>
>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
>>
>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
>> THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS
>> MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS
>> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN
>> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,
>> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY
>> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE,
>> AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
>> THANK YOU.
>>
>> FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl]
>> SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM
>> TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann'
>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick
>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
>>
>> Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
>>
>> Few things that stood out.
>>
>> It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but
>> Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I
>> would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a
>> possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences
>> are.
>>
>> Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review
>> does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
>>
>> What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal
>> review (page5)?
>>
>> Let me list them:
>> 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration
>> properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience
>> long-term technical failures rendering
>> them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois
>> have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the
>> registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that
>> registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
>>
>> 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display
>> formats.
>>
>> 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of
>> data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at
>> all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of
>> Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders,
>> etc).
>>
>> 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has
>> typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the
>> registrar.
>>
>> I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point
>> that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
>>
>> Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in
>> point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid.
>> Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP
>> policy released in 2015.
>> Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved.
>> Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
>>
>> One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys
>> want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for
>> the comment period.
>>
>> Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is
>> the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but
>> it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable
>> procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would
>> solve our impediment.
>>
>> Thank you for making it this far.
>>
>> Theo
>>
>> theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
>>
>>> Thanks, Marika,
>>>
>>> I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right.
>>> Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already
>>> warned
>>> us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign
>>> prepared
>>> does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How
>>> many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been
>>> invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit
>>> or
>>> Trump running for president.
>>>
>>> In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up
>>> to
>>> this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a
>>> few
>>> impediments.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Theo
>>>
>>> On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
>>>
>>> And it can be found here:
>>>
>>>
>> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Marika
>>>
>>> MARIKA KONINGS
>>>
>>> Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet
>>> Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>>
>>> Email: marika.konings@icann.org
>>>
>>> _ _
>>>
>>> _Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
>>>
>>> _Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10
>>> [1]]
>>> and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
>>>
>>> FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of
>>> "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com>
>>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44
>>> TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo
>>> <gtheo@xs4all.nl>
>>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"
>>> <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick
>>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
>>>
>>> That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
>>>
>>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
>>>
>>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
>>>
>>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]
>>>
>>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
>>>
>>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY
>>> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS.
>>> THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS
>>> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN
>>> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,
>>> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY
>>> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR
>>> TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM
>>> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
>>>
>>> FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net]
>>> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM
>>> TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo
>>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick
>>> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
>>>
>>> Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal
>>> review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation
>>> on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions
>>> may well become relevant to such a review.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Volker
>>>
>>> Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>>>
>>> Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
>>>
>>> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
>>>
>>> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
>>>
>>> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [2] [1 [3]]
>>>
>>> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
>>>
>>> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY
>>> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED
>>> RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION,
>>> AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS
>>> MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT
>>> ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS
>>> MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY
>>> REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL
>>> ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
>>>
>>> FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org
>>> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF
>>> Volker Greimann
>>> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM
>>> TO: gtheo
>>> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft
>>> Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
>>>
>>> Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an
>>> excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess.
>>> An
>>> Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon
>>> be
>>> another one of those. ;-)
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Volker
>>>
>>> Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
>>>
>>> That might be a way forward Volker.
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
>>>
>>> obtain
>>>
>>> one.
>>> The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
>>>
>>> governments
>>>
>>> displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
>>>
>>> speed
>>>
>>> law wise.
>>>
>>> I guess the problem boils down to this.
>>> -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
>>>
>>> risk.
>>>
>>> -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline.
>>> -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
>>>
>>> I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
>>>
>>> IRT to
>>>
>>> fix this as it is out of scope.
>>> Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
>>>
>>> RDAP.
>>>
>>> Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
>>>
>>> comes
>>>
>>> to Thin WHOIS Registries.
>>>
>>> Theo
>>>
>>> Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
>>>
>>> How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
>>>
>>> with
>>>
>>> local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention
>>> specification"?
>>>
>>> Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and
>>> requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for
>>> Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
>>>
>>> Registry
>>>
>>> Operators and Registrars. _
>>>
>>> We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
>>>
>>> if we
>>>
>>> can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
>>>
>>> struggling
>>>
>>> with this section for a few now.
>>>
>>> The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>> discussions we had about this in the last few months.
>>>
>>> What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of
>>> moving forward to the comment period.
>>> The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
>>>
>>> address,
>>>
>>> yet this IRT relies on it.
>>>
>>> Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
>>>
>>> something
>>>
>>> like:
>>> _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
>>>
>>> Registrars
>>>
>>> and Registrants the best of luck!_
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Theo
>>>
>>> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
>>>
>>> Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
>>>
>>> Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
>>>
>>> Whois
>>>
>>> Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy
>>> includes
>>> the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this
>>> topic.
>>>
>>> As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four
>>> sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are
>>> bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data
>>> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>> Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be
>>> aware, a
>>> Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
>>>
>>> Registries
>>>
>>> Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration
>>> Data
>>> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
>>>
>>> [1]]
>>>
>>> that was
>>> published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of
>>> RDAP in
>>> the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
>>>
>>> process,
>>>
>>> we
>>> thought it was important to continue progressing the
>>> implementation
>>> project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our
>>> schedule.
>>> Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited
>>> pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
>>>
>>> call
>>>
>>> the
>>> IRT's attention to it.
>>>
>>> We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT
>>> meeting as
>>> a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your support!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Dennis S. Chang
>>>
>>> GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
>>>
>>> +1 213 293 7889
>>>
>>> Skype: dennisSchang
>>>
>>> www.icann.org [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1 [3]]
>>
>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
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>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>> [5] http://www.key-systems.net
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>> [7] http://www.domaindiscount24.com
>> [8] http://www.BrandShelter.com
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>> [10] http://www.twitter.com/key_systems
>> [11] http://www.keydrive.lu
>
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Wich new design and implementation requirements are you talking about Volker? Thanks. Theo Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-09 04:13 PM:
Well, I was a member of the PDP and when I supported a switch, I assumed this would be a quick thing:
The legal issues would be sorted, the remaining thin registries would set up thick whois servers, get a data dump from the registrars and after a short switchover time, registrars would updated their EPP protocols to a standard used by currently thick registries and afterward, a delta file would be sent for final changes. Quick and dirty and very cheap to implement.
I did not imagine that everyone would try to reinvent the wheel in the implementation process. EPP is pretty much standardized, registrars use EPP to send registration data to thick registries. The same implementation could be used for the currently thin registries.
Of course we were aware that RDS would be coming at some point, so no one even considered that this be overdesigned and complicated beyond belief as it would only be for a short period of time. The more complicated it gets and the more implementation time and cost expenditure is invested, the more you remove the basic common sense understanding of making this change.
I still favor a change to thick over thin, but for all our sakes, make it as easy as possible without adding new design and implementation requirements. Use what we already have and be done with it.
Best,
Volker
Am 09.09.2016 um 15:43 schrieb Marika Konings:
Having supported the Thick WHOIS PDP WG, I believe most if not all of its members were well aware of the work that was ongoing in parallel, but nevertheless the assumption was that it could take some time for that work to complete and that any transition to a new model/system would be easier if all registries would be operating under the same model. It is also one of the questions that is included in the RDS PDP WG Charter: Coexistence: What steps should be taken to enable next-generation RDS coexistence with and replacement of the legacy WHOIS system?
Of course, I am happy to stand corrected if my recollection is wrong.
Best regards,
Marika
On 09/09/16 03:40, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
Hi Steve,
I am not proposing to tear it up, although your raising it a possibility
made me think it could be an alternative. After all, when the PDP WG
deliberated this, the EWG was still in its infancy and a common whois
system seemed like a good idea. Now that the GNSO is working on
establishing an alternate RDS which admittedly is still years on the
horizon means that ultimately the thick whois model this group is trying
to find an implementation for will in all likelyhood ultimately end up
being superseded.
This is why I am advocating a very lightweight transition model. Limit
the implementation needs to the barest minimum possible. For example,
who needs new EPP extentions and contacts for resellers when the same
can be achieved with existing means.
All our work here should be undertaken with the awareness of the very
real possibility that we are working on something ultimately destined
the trash can.
Best regards,
Volker
Am 09.09.2016 um 10:05 schrieb gtheo:
Hi Steve, et al.
I guess that listing those benefits wasn't the greatest move on my
part and could be perceived as I am suggesting :"Let's tear this thing
up". Though it does somewhat highlight the fact that there is
currently nothing wrong with the thin WHOIS in the sense that anything
is broken here operational wise, and needs fixing ASAP.
However, I am not suggesting to tear it up, beside that is not up to
us anyways.
Furthermore, I am NOT even sure if that is the solution anyways. It is
that complex.
I do think we have not explored all the options. Let me elaborate on
that some more and make a suggestion to the IRT and ICANN staff.
This morning I had a conversation with the Dutch Registry for
.Amsterdam and .FRL to get more feedback on their process, to deal
with the situation with their Thick WHOIS issues. Turns out they are
currently having a discussion with ICANN GDD and from what I heard
they are making progress. I find this highly interesting as there is
no trigger they can use for the old waiver process from 2006.
I would suggest if there are no objections we ask Cyrus from the GDD
to attend our next call or participate on the list and give us more
info on:
-how does it work?
-what are the timelines?
-expected duration?
-what are the practical issues?
-etc
If we get more insight here then perhaps we can streamline this and
make it work?
The only issue here is, that it seems out of scope for the IRT. Yet it
may be a path forward for us.
Best regards,
Theo
Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc
last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the
invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the
EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that
US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in
processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing
personally identifiable information from European registrars and
making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have
been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong?
If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor
or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from
EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note
that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal
review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not
covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might
well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you
respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would
be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working
Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board,
it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing
it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support
that?
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [3]
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl]
SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM
TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann'
CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick
Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but
Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I
would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a
possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences
are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review
does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal
review (page5)?
Let me list them:
1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration
properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience
long-term technical failures rendering
them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois
have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the
registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that
registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display
formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of
data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at
all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of
Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders,
etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has
typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the
registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point
that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in
point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid.
Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP
policy released in 2015.
Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved.
Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys
want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for
the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is
the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but
it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable
procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would
solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right.
Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already
warned
us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign
prepared
does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How
many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been
invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit
or
Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up
to
this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a
few
impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet
Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org
_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10
[1]]
and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of
"Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com>
DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44
TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo
<gtheo@xs4all.nl>
CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"
<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>
SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick
Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [2] [1 [3]]
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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net]
SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM
TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo
CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick
Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal
review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation
on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions
may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com
MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM [1] [2] [1 [3]]
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THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org
[mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF
Volker Greimann
SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM
TO: gtheo
CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org
SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft
Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an
excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess.
An
Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon
be
another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one.
The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this.
-Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline.
-There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope.
Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention
specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and
requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for
Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of
moving forward to the comment period.
The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like:
_Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks,
Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy
includes
the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this
topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four
sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are
bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data
Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be
aware, a
Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration
Data
Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was
published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of
RDAP in
the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we
thought it was important to continue progressing the
implementation
project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our
schedule.
Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited
pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the
IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT
meeting as
a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if
possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [2] [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"
Links:
------
[1 [3]]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
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I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>
_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
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Hi Steve, The agenda and the latest documents were distributed last week as attached and the draft letter is on the agenda. The IRT agenda can be also be found on the IRT wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-13Septemb... Provided below for your convenience. I am assuming all IRT members have access to the IRT wiki page. If not, please let me know. 13 September 2016 ________________________________ · Agenda: · Transition from thin to thick · Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 · Public Comment readiness · Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) · Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) · Next Steps Thanks Dennis Chang From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> Date: Monday, September 12, 2016 at 11:32 AM To: 'gtheo' <gtheo@xs4all.nl> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below. [mage001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>
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_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
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https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
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Thanks Dennis, Regarding the agenda items, if we do not get through all of them they will be automatically moved to the next call right? Best, Theo On 12-9-2016 21:39, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Steve,
The agenda and the latest documents were distributed last week as attached and the draft letter is on the agenda.
The IRT agenda can be also be found on the IRT wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-13Septemb...
Provided below for your convenience.
I am assuming all IRT members have access to the IRT wiki page. If not, please let me know.
13 September 2016
------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Agenda:
·Transition from thin to thick
·Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9
·Public Comment readiness
·Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits)
·Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits)
·Next Steps
Thanks
Dennis Chang
*From: *<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> *Date: *Monday, September 12, 2016 at 11:32 AM *To: *'gtheo' <gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Cc: *"gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below.
*mage001*
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Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
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_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org
<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of
"Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
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That’s right Theo. We have another meeting already scheduled on the following week and the agenda for that meeting will be set at the end of tomorrow’s meeting. Thanks Dennis Chang From: theo geurts <gtheo@xs4all.nl> Date: Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:48 PM To: Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org>, "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Thanks Dennis, Regarding the agenda items, if we do not get through all of them they will be automatically moved to the next call right? Best, Theo On 12-9-2016 21:39, Dennis Chang wrote: Hi Steve, The agenda and the latest documents were distributed last week as attached and the draft letter is on the agenda. The IRT agenda can be also be found on the IRT wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-13Septemb... Provided below for your convenience. I am assuming all IRT members have access to the IRT wiki page. If not, please let me know. 13 September 2016 ________________________________ · Agenda: · Transition from thin to thick · Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 · Public Comment readiness · Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) · Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) · Next Steps Thanks Dennis Chang From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com><mailto:met@msk.com> Date: Monday, September 12, 2016 at 11:32 AM To: 'gtheo' <gtheo@xs4all.nl><mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org><mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below. [age001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
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_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
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Dennis S. Chang
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Thanks Dennis, Theo On 12-9-2016 21:54, Dennis Chang wrote:
That’s right Theo.
We have another meeting already scheduled on the following week
and the agenda for that meeting will be set at the end of tomorrow’s meeting.
Thanks
Dennis Chang
*From: *theo geurts <gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Date: *Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:48 PM *To: *Dennis Chang <dennis.chang@icann.org>, "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> *Cc: *"gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Thanks Dennis,
Regarding the agenda items, if we do not get through all of them they will be automatically moved to the next call right?
Best,
Theo
On 12-9-2016 21:39, Dennis Chang wrote:
Hi Steve,
The agenda and the latest documents were distributed last week as attached and the draft letter is on the agenda.
The IRT agenda can be also be found on the IRT wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-13Septemb...
Provided below for your convenience.
I am assuming all IRT members have access to the IRT wiki page. If not, please let me know.
13 September 2016
------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Agenda:
·Transition from thin to thick
·Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9
·Public Comment readiness
·Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits)
·Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits)
·Next Steps
Thanks
Dennis Chang
*From: *<gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> <mailto:met@msk.com> *Date: *Monday, September 12, 2016 at 11:32 AM *To: *'gtheo' <gtheo@xs4all.nl> <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl> *Cc: *"gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below.
*age001*
*Steven J. Metalitz *|** *Partner, through his professional corporation*
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Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM: > Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc > last week about his draft memo: > > (1) The first two developments to which you cite are the > invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the > EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that > US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in > processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing > personally identifiable information from European registrars and > making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have > been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? > If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor > or the Privacy Shield in this context? > > (2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from > EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note > that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal > review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not > covered by that analysis? > > (3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might > well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you > respond? > > In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would > be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working > Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, > it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing > it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support > that? > > STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION > > T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com> > > MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM <http://WWW.MSK.COM> [3] > > 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 > > THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR > THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS > MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS > PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN > INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, > DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY > PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, > AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. > THANK YOU. > > FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] > SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM > TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' > CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> > SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick > Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS > > Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here. > > Few things that stood out. > > It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but > Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I > would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a > possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences > are. > > Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review > does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us. > > What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal > review (page5)? > > Let me list them: > 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration > properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience > long-term technical failures rendering > them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois > have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the > registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that > registrants could continue to manage their domain names. > > 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display > formats. > > 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of > data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at > all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of > Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, > etc). > > 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has > typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the > registrar. > > I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point > that this migration has been in the freezer for too long. > > Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in > point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. > Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP > policy released in 2015. > Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. > Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA. > > One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys > want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for > the comment period. > > Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is > the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but > it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable > procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would > solve our impediment. > > Thank you for making it this far. > > Theo > > theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM: > >> Thanks, Marika, >> >> I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. >> Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already >> warned >> us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign >> prepared >> does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How >> many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been >> invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit >> or >> Trump running for president. >> >> In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up >> to >> this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a >> few >> impediments. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Theo >> >> On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote: >> >> And it can be found here: >> >> > https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum.... >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Marika >> >> MARIKA KONINGS >> >> Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet >> Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) >> >> Email: marika.konings@icann.org <mailto:marika.konings@icann.org> >> >> _ _ >> >> _Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_ >> >> _Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 >> [1]] >> and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._ >> >> FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of >> "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com>> >> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 >> TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo >> <gtheo@xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> >> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" >> <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> >> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick >> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >> >> That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. >> >> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION >> >> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com> >> >> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM <http://WWW.MSK.COM> [2] [1 [3]] >> >> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 >> >> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY >> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. >> THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS >> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN >> INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, >> DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY >> PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR >> TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM >> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. >> >> FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] >> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM >> TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo >> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick >> Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >> >> Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal >> review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation >> on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions >> may well become relevant to such a review. >> >> Best, >> >> Volker >> >> Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: >> >> Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. >> >> STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION >> >> T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com <mailto:met@msk.com> >> >> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM <http://WWW.MSK.COM> [2] [1 [3]] >> >> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 >> >> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY >> FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED >> RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, >> AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS >> MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT >> ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS >> MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY >> REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL >> ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. >> >> FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> >> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF >> Volker Greimann >> SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM >> TO: gtheo >> CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft >> Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS >> >> Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an >> excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. >> An >> Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon >> be >> another one of those. ;-) >> >> Best, >> >> Volker >> >> Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: >> >> That might be a way forward Volker. >> >> > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en >> >> >> However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to >> >> obtain >> >> one. >> The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some >> >> governments >> >> displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record >> >> speed >> >> law wise. >> >> I guess the problem boils down to this. >> -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at >> >> risk. >> >> -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. >> -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. >> >> I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the >> >> IRT to >> >> fix this as it is out of scope. >> Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention >> >> RDAP. >> >> Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it >> >> comes >> >> to Thin WHOIS Registries. >> >> Theo >> >> Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM: >> >> How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts >> >> with >> >> local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention >> specification"? >> >> Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo: >> >> Hello all, >> >> _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and >> requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for >> Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for >> >> Registry >> >> Operators and Registrars. _ >> >> We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see >> >> if we >> >> can have some discussion in advance about this as I am >> >> struggling >> >> with this section for a few now. >> >> The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after >> >> the >> >> discussions we had about this in the last few months. >> >> What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of >> moving forward to the comment period. >> The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to >> >> address, >> >> yet this IRT relies on it. >> >> Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says >> >> something >> >> like: >> _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the >> >> Registrars >> >> and Registrants the best of luck!_ >> >> Thanks, >> Theo >> >> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >> >> Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >> >> Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick >> >> Whois >> >> Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >> includes >> the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >> topic. >> >> As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >> sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >> bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and >> >> the >> >> Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >> aware, a >> Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the >> >> Registries >> >> Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration >> Data >> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 >> >> [1]] >> >> that was >> published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >> RDAP in >> the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own >> >> process, >> >> we >> thought it was important to continue progressing the >> implementation >> project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September >> >> and >> >> announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >> schedule. >> Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >> pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly >> >> call >> >> the >> IRT's attention to it. >> >> We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >> meeting as >> a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >> possible. >> >> Thank you for your support! >> >> -- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Dennis S. Chang >> >> GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >> >> +1 213 293 7889 >> >> Skype: dennisSchang >> >> www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet" >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1 [3]] > > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt > > -- > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen, > > Volker A. 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Thanks Dennis, apologies for missing this earlier. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: Dennis Chang [mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 3:40 PM To: Metalitz, Steven; 'gtheo' Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Hi Steve, The agenda and the latest documents were distributed last week as attached and the draft letter is on the agenda. The IRT agenda can be also be found on the IRT wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-13September2016<https://community.icann.org/display/TWCPI/IRT+Meetings#IRTMeetings-13September2016> Provided below for your convenience. I am assuming all IRT members have access to the IRT wiki page. If not, please let me know. 13 September 2016 ________________________________ • Agenda: • Transition from thin to thick • Draft Consensus Policy document review - continue from section 2.9 • Public Comment readiness • Whois Conflict Procedure (if time permits) • Draft memo to GNSO Council regarding Privacy (if time permits) • Next Steps Thanks Dennis Chang From: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> Date: Monday, September 12, 2016 at 11:32 AM To: 'gtheo' <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> Cc: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below. [mage001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>
_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION
T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
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Steve, thank you for the reminder. I see that Dennis has responded indicating it’s on the agenda but listed as an “if time permits” item. Would it maybe make sense to bump this up in priority making sure we have time to discuss? On your first question the relevance of the Safe Harbor invalidation and development of Privacy Shield is that these developments have led regulators in the EU to also question the validity of consent-based transfers, particularly in the context of large and/or repeated transfers of personal data. Considering that both the RA and the RAA “require” consent from the registrant, this development is particularly noteworthy. I think it’s notable that the ICANN memorandum references three “instruments to provide for an adequate level of data protection on part of the data recipient located outside of the EEA”, one being Safe Harbor. The invalidation of Safe Harbor and the emergence of Privacy Shield seems a relevant privacy issue not anticipated by the Working Group or the ICANN memorandum for that matter. On question two, in addition to Russian laws which the ICANN memorandum notes were “still the subject of significant uncertainty as to its scope, applicability and requirements”, I understand that data localization laws exist in countries such as South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Brazil (for example), but the applicability and requirements associated with these laws (and other similar laws around the world) weren’t addressed in the ICANN memorandum, which focused on the EU. The primary point the draft makes in this regard is that data protection regulations exist in other jurisdictions beyond the EU that may have a direct impact on thick Whois policies and procedures, and should be a consideration for all thick registries and registrars and in particular for those completing the thick transition. For question three, my first thought was that our obligation on the IRT is just to inform (notify) the GNSO Council so that appropriate action can be taken. That seems like the easy way out though and that we shouldn’t just be throwing this over the wall so to speak. We could ask the GNSO Council to provide direction on if additional policy considerations are required. Thank you, Marc From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Metalitz, Steven Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 2:32 PM To: 'gtheo' Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
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_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
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+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
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Thanks for providing these responses Marc. Let me offer some quick reactions that could provide a basis for discussion if we do reach this item on tomorrow’s agenda. First, I take your point that the validity of consent as a basis for processing was addressed in the two memos from national data protection authorities that are referenced in your draft letter, and that those memos were issued after and in reaction to the invalidation of the Safe Harbor by the Court of Justice of the European Union. However, that invalidation did not by itself change the data protection law of any EU Member State with regard to consent as a basis for processing. Furthermore, I think your e-mail mischaracterizes what the June 2015 legal review said about Safe Harbor. It referred to it solely in the context in which “the data processing under thick Whois is based upon legitimate interests” of a party, rather than upon consent. It was for that reason that the review recommended consent as “the most suitable approach.” If the Safe Harbor is only relevant in the context of a possible basis for processing which is not relied upon, then it is hard to see how invalidation of the Safe Harbor brings any of the conclusions of the legal review into question. This seems consistent with the fact that your company, for example, apparently did not rely upon the Safe Harbor to justify its receipt of PII from European registrars in Whois data in the thick registries that it operates. If that is the case, then it is hard to see how invalidation of the Safe Harbor changes the substantive legal situation. Second, you are of course correct that the EU is not the only jurisdiction whose law may be relevant here but I think you may be blurring the distinction between privacy legislation such as the European Data Protection Directive, and data localization requirements such as the Russian law; it was specifically the Russian Localization Law that the legal review characterized as the “subject of significant uncertainty as to its scope, applicability and requirements,” but which it ultimately concluded would not be likely to present a problem so long as the personal data was also stored in Russia and there was consent of the data subject for “onward transfers from Russia.” Both of these features are fully consistent with thick Whois architecture. I am still not clear whether you are contesting this analysis or what you think has changed since it was delivered to us. Finally, I am not sure what you are suggesting the IRT do beyond just “throwing the issue back over the wall” to the GNSO council, but I am sure we will be able to discuss this in more detail on tomorrow’s or a future call. Steve Metalitz [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: Anderson, Marc [mailto:mcanderson@verisign.com] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 4:58 PM To: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org; Metalitz, Steven; 'gtheo' Subject: RE: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Steve, thank you for the reminder. I see that Dennis has responded indicating it’s on the agenda but listed as an “if time permits” item. Would it maybe make sense to bump this up in priority making sure we have time to discuss? On your first question the relevance of the Safe Harbor invalidation and development of Privacy Shield is that these developments have led regulators in the EU to also question the validity of consent-based transfers, particularly in the context of large and/or repeated transfers of personal data. Considering that both the RA and the RAA “require” consent from the registrant, this development is particularly noteworthy. I think it’s notable that the ICANN memorandum references three “instruments to provide for an adequate level of data protection on part of the data recipient located outside of the EEA”, one being Safe Harbor. The invalidation of Safe Harbor and the emergence of Privacy Shield seems a relevant privacy issue not anticipated by the Working Group or the ICANN memorandum for that matter. On question two, in addition to Russian laws which the ICANN memorandum notes were “still the subject of significant uncertainty as to its scope, applicability and requirements”, I understand that data localization laws exist in countries such as South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Brazil (for example), but the applicability and requirements associated with these laws (and other similar laws around the world) weren’t addressed in the ICANN memorandum, which focused on the EU. The primary point the draft makes in this regard is that data protection regulations exist in other jurisdictions beyond the EU that may have a direct impact on thick Whois policies and procedures, and should be a consideration for all thick registries and registrars and in particular for those completing the thick transition. For question three, my first thought was that our obligation on the IRT is just to inform (notify) the GNSO Council so that appropriate action can be taken. That seems like the easy way out though and that we shouldn’t just be throwing this over the wall so to speak. We could ask the GNSO Council to provide direction on if additional policy considerations are required. Thank you, Marc From: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Metalitz, Steven Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 2:32 PM To: 'gtheo' Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below. [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>
_ _
_Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_
_Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10 [1]] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._
FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
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Hi all, A few thoughts here from my side. It appears the GNSO draft memo is either not very clear, or it is me having a very different thought process compared to Marc and Steve here. The discussion about safe harbor or Russian law is not so relevant to me. These things happen and will continue to happen as our governments are set in an age of quarrel constantly changing their laws and policies and bickering amongst eachother. If I zoom out and look at this from a more high-level perspective I see the following. I see a ton of Registries in very different jurisdictions. I see a ton of Registrars in very different jurisdictions. That the current Thick WHOIS Registries and their Registrars have not run into trouble is amazing. I think it is pretty risky and just asking for trouble at some point, as there is no procedure in place to address issues for Registrars or Registries. Moving .com to a Thick WHOIS Registry, in my opinion is adding more risk and liability. Anyways this is my thought process here. I would like to note, that we now base our actions on the legal review from 2015. Yet, I also observe that .Amsterdam is the first geo gTLD registry that openly admits, that according to them the current Thick WHOIS model is causing them massive headaches to comply with the law. Other geo TLD Registries like Nominet and Afnic, etc are monitoring very closely how the progress is going for .Amsterdam as they are in the same boat. To be clear here, these geo gTLD operators have removed all personal identifiable WHOIS data from their respective ccTLDs when it comes to the public WHOIS they operate years ago. Thanks, Theo Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-12 11:39 PM:
Thanks for providing these responses Marc. Let me offer some quick reactions that could provide a basis for discussion if we do reach this item on tomorrow’s agenda.
First, I take your point that the validity of consent as a basis for processing was addressed in the two memos from national data protection authorities that are referenced in your draft letter, and that those memos were issued after and in reaction to the invalidation of the Safe Harbor by the Court of Justice of the European Union. However, that invalidation did not by itself change the data protection law of any EU Member State with regard to consent as a basis for processing. Furthermore, I think your e-mail mischaracterizes what the June 2015 legal review said about Safe Harbor. It referred to it solely in the context in which “the data processing under thick Whois is based upon legitimate interests” of a party, rather than upon consent. It was for that reason that the review recommended consent as “the most suitable approach.” If the Safe Harbor is only relevant in the context of a possible basis for processing which is not relied upon, then it is hard to see how invalidation of the Safe Harbor brings any of the conclusions of the legal review into question. This seems consistent with the fact that your company, for example, apparently did not rely upon the Safe Harbor to justify its receipt of PII from European registrars in Whois data in the thick registries that it operates. If that is the case, then it is hard to see how invalidation of the Safe Harbor changes the substantive legal situation.
Second, you are of course correct that the EU is not the only jurisdiction whose law may be relevant here but I think you may be blurring the distinction between privacy legislation such as the European Data Protection Directive, and data localization requirements such as the Russian law; it was specifically the Russian Localization Law that the legal review characterized as the “subject of significant uncertainty as to its scope, applicability and requirements,” but which it ultimately concluded would not be likely to present a problem so long as the personal data was also stored in Russia and there was consent of the data subject for “onward transfers from Russia.” Both of these features are fully consistent with thick Whois architecture. I am still not clear whether you are contesting this analysis or what you think has changed since it was delivered to us.
Finally, I am not sure what you are suggesting the IRT do beyond just “throwing the issue back over the wall” to the GNSO council, but I am sure we will be able to discuss this in more detail on tomorrow’s or a future call.
Steve Metalitz
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FROM: Anderson, Marc [mailto:mcanderson@verisign.com] SENT: Monday, September 12, 2016 4:58 PM TO: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org; Metalitz, Steven; 'gtheo' SUBJECT: RE: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Steve, thank you for the reminder. I see that Dennis has responded indicating it’s on the agenda but listed as an “if time permits” item. Would it maybe make sense to bump this up in priority making sure we have time to discuss?
On your first question the relevance of the Safe Harbor invalidation and development of Privacy Shield is that these developments have led regulators in the EU to also question the validity of consent-based transfers, particularly in the context of large and/or repeated transfers of personal data. Considering that both the RA and the RAA “require” consent from the registrant, this development is particularly noteworthy. I think it’s notable that the ICANN memorandum references three “instruments to provide for an adequate level of data protection on part of the data recipient located outside of the EEA”, one being Safe Harbor. The invalidation of Safe Harbor and the emergence of Privacy Shield seems a relevant privacy issue not anticipated by the Working Group or the ICANN memorandum for that matter.
On question two, in addition to Russian laws which the ICANN memorandum notes were “still the subject of significant uncertainty as to its scope, applicability and requirements”, I understand that data localization laws exist in countries such as South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Brazil (for example), but the applicability and requirements associated with these laws (and other similar laws around the world) weren’t addressed in the ICANN memorandum, which focused on the EU. The primary point the draft makes in this regard is that data protection regulations exist in other jurisdictions beyond the EU that may have a direct impact on thick Whois policies and procedures, and should be a consideration for all thick registries and registrars and in particular for those completing the thick transition.
For question three, my first thought was that our obligation on the IRT is just to inform (notify) the GNSO Council so that appropriate action can be taken. That seems like the easy way out though and that we shouldn’t just be throwing this over the wall so to speak. We could ask the GNSO Council to provide direction on if additional policy considerations are required.
Thank you,
Marc
FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Metalitz, Steven SENT: Monday, September 12, 2016 2:32 PM TO: 'gtheo' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
I have not yet seen any agenda for tomorrow’s call but assuming that it includes a discussion of the Verisign draft letter to GNSO council, it would be great to have Verisign’s responses to the questions about it that I posed two weeks ago. See below.
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Metalitz, Steven schreef op 2016-09-08 05:25 PM:
Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo:
(1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context?
(2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis?
(3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond?
In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that?
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FROM: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] SENT: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM TO: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here.
Few things that stood out.
It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are.
Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us.
What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)?
Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names.
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long.
Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA.
One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period.
Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment.
Thank you for making it this far.
Theo
theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM:
Thanks, Marika,
I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president.
In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments.
Best regards,
Theo
On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote:
And it can be found here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum....
Best regards,
Marika
MARIKA KONINGS
Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Email: marika.konings@icann.org
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FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo:
That might be a way forward Volker.
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to
obtain
one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some
governments
displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record
speed
law wise.
I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at
risk.
-The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate.
I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the
IRT to
fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention
RDAP.
Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it
comes
to Thin WHOIS Registries.
Theo
Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM:
How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts
with
local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"?
Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo:
Hello all,
_1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for
Registry
Operators and Registrars. _
We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see
if we
can have some discussion in advance about this as I am
struggling
with this section for a few now.
The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after
the
discussions we had about this in the last few months.
What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to
address,
yet this IRT relies on it.
Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says
something
like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the
Registrars
and Registrants the best of luck!_
Thanks, Theo
Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM:
Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team,
Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick
Whois
Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic.
As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and
the
Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the
Registries
Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1
[1]]
that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own
process,
we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September
and
announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly
call
the IRT's attention to it.
We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible.
Thank you for your support!
--
Kind Regards,
Dennis S. Chang
GDD Services & Engagement Program Director
+1 213 293 7889
Skype: dennisSchang
www.icann.org [3] [4] [2 [4]] [2 [4]] "One World, One Internet"
Links: ------ [1 [3]]
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en
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1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand
As a registrar who has been the "recipient" of a number of domain portfolios of defunct/de-accredited/closing registrars, I can say that there is no appreciable difference at all in the "quality" and "validity" of the data between thick-whois registries and thin-whois-registries. * The Contact Data about Registrations, whether available via Registrar (thick model) or Escrow (thin model) has been entirely dependant on the Registrar concerned, and nothing at all to do with the storage model. * There have been more (numerically) problems with contact data for thin-whois rather than thick-whois which is because there has been an 850% difference between the number of registrations between the two models, percentage-wise it's "roughly even" (marginally skewed as there have not always been any thick-whois registrations to transfer from de-accredited registrars)
2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats.
Of the field-labels, maybe, but that is largely supposed to be covered by other Policies.
3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc).
It _may_ change the level of consistency, whether that's an _improvement_ is a different discussion, and really best left to the PDP on RDS
4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar.
With more-and-more restrictions on WHOIS data access / limitations, along with the quite-poor IPv6 support by some Registries, whilst IPv4 WHOIS *uptime*may be better than certain registrars in certain regions, it wont change for most (100% is 100% - there is no possible improvement on it) and dependant on Registry/Registrar, may significantly reduce access/availablility That's regarding ##4 as a general statement for policy. When you bring _specifics_ like the Registry concerned being Versign(GRS) most if not all of those concerns go away - although it does introduce a single-point-of-failure (one location for whois data for a tld) that does not currently exist. So I disagree that any of 1-4 are actual valid benefits / reasons (although I do agree with the policy overall) Rob --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I am aware of that review, however it seems odd that the legal review should occur prior to the details of the transition having been finalized. Surely the question of how this is done will have an impact on the legal situation? Similarly, certain legal circumstances of transfers of private details into foreign countries have changed since then. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:44 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago.
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*From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM *To:* Metalitz, Steven; gtheo *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review.
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group.
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*_THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS._**THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.*
*From:*gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann *Sent:* Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM *To:* gtheo *Cc:* gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS
Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-)
Best,
Volker
Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: > That might be a way forward Volker. > > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en
> > > However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain > one. > The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments > displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed > law wise. > > I guess the problem boils down to this. > -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. > -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. > -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. > > I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to > fix this as it is out of scope. > Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. > Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes > to Thin WHOIS Registries. > > Theo > > > > > > > Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM: > >> How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with >> local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention >> specification"? >> >> Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo: >> >> Hello all, >> >> _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and >> requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for >> Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry >> Operators and Registrars. _ >> >> We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we >> can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling >> with this section for a few now. >> >> The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the >> discussions we had about this in the last few months. >> >> What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of >> moving forward to the comment period. >> The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, >> yet this IRT relies on it. >> >> Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something >> like: >> _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars >> and Registrants the best of luck!_ >> >> Thanks, >> Theo >> >> Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: >> >> Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, >> >> Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois >> Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy >> includes >> the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this >> topic. >> >> As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four >> sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are >> bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data >> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the >> Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be >> aware, a >> Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries >> Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration >> Data >> Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] >> that was >> published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of >> RDAP in >> the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, >> we >> thought it was important to continue progressing the >> implementation >> project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and >> announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our >> schedule. >> Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited >> pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call >> the >> IRT's attention to it. >> >> We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT >> meeting as >> a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if >> possible. >> >> Thank you for your support! >> >> -- >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Dennis S. Chang >> >> GDD Services & Engagement Program Director >> >> +1 213 293 7889 >> >> Skype: dennisSchang >> >> www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org> [2] "One World, One Internet" >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] > > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2016-07-26-en > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >>> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list >> Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt >
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email:vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
participants (9)
-
Anderson, Marc -
Dennis Chang -
gtheo -
Marika Konings -
Metalitz, Steven -
Rob Golding -
Roger D Carney -
theo geurts -
Volker Greimann