Theo’s ruminations lead me to repeat the questions I posed to Marc last week about his draft memo: (1) The first two developments to which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data containing personally identifiable information from European registrars and making it available through registry Whois), and so would not have been directly impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong? If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context? (2) The last paragraph refers to data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are there other issues not covered by that analysis? (3) If the IRT were to send this letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if anything) we are asking them to do. How would you respond? In particular, If I understand Theo correctly, his answer to #3 would be “please tear up the consensus policy recommended by the Working Group, adopted by the GNSO Council, and approved by the ICANN board, it is obsolete, and let’s not waste [further] time implementing it.” Is that reading correct, and do others in the IRT support that? [image001] Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/> 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. From: gtheo [mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 6:57 AM To: Marika Konings; Metalitz, Steven; 'Volker Greimann' Cc: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Interesting review. After reading it I agree with Volker here. Few things that stood out. It seems the focus was put on the 95/46/EC Directive (makes sense) but Safe Harbor was not included in. I am not sure if that was intended? I would not be surprised that anyone ever thought that it would be a possibility that it would be invalidated, and what the consequences are. Anyways, we just need a good procedure for this IRT. The legal review does not address the current impediment, so that is not up to us. What is up to us, maybe, are the benefits mentioned in the legal review (page5)? Let me list them: 1. A thick Whois model offers attractive archival and restoration properties. If a registrar were to go out of business or experience long-term technical failures rendering them unable to provide service, registries maintaining thick Whois have all the registrant information at hand and could transfer the registrations to a different (or temporary) registrar so that registrants could continue to manage their domain names. 2. A thick Whois model reduces the degree of variability in display formats. 3. Establishing requirements such as collecting uniform sets of data, and display standards, improves consistency across all gTLDs at all levels and result in better access to Whois data for all users of Whois databases (e.g. law enforcement, Intellectual Property holders, etc). 4. The uptime of the registry with respect to Whois data has typically been found to be better (at least marginally) than the registrar. I am not sure about the rest of you, but this re-enforces the point that this migration has been in the freezer for too long. Point 1, that's why we have escrow obligations. The reasoning in point 1 is not sustainable for the future I am afraid. Point 2 and 3, This has been addressed by the RAA 2013 and the AWIP policy released in 2015. Point 4, I suspect with RDAP this problem will also be solved. Beside the RAA 2013 also addresses this with an SLA. One could almost argue there are no benefits. Not sure if you guys want to circle back on this one and include this in a side note for the comment period. Also, interesting to read but, out of scope for this IRT (I think) is the RDAP solution (page 12 of the legal review)? It could be me, but it almost looks like if there was a quick procedure and workable procedure then the technical issue would be solved also, and it would solve our impediment. Thank you for making it this far. Theo theo geurts schreef op 2016-09-07 10:22 PM: Thanks, Marika, I'll give that one a read tomorrow. Though I think Volker is right. Seems we are operating under old marching orders, Steve already warned us that this thing has taken way too long. The draft Verisign prepared does actually highlight the current situation. And to be fair? How many people would have thought that Safe Harbor would have been invalidated? Not me for sure. But I also did not predict the brexit or Trump running for president. In addition to this, I think we are in agreement here. It is not up to this IRT. We can only signal the GNSO that most likely we have a few impediments. Best regards, Theo On 7-9-2016 16:53, Marika Konings wrote: And it can be found here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum%20to%20the%20IRT%20-%20Thin%20to%20Thick%20WHOIS%20Transition_Final_2015-06-08.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1434138098000&api=v2<https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52889541/ICANN%20Memorandum%20to%20the%20IRT%20-%20Thin%20to%20Thick%20WHOIS%20Transition_Final_2015-06-08.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1434138098000&api=v2>. Best regards, Marika MARIKA KONINGS Senior Policy Director & Team Leader for the GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org> _ _ _Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO_ _Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses [10<http://learn.icann.org/courses/gnso>] and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages [11]._ FROM: <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Metalitz, Steven" <met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com>> DATE: Wednesday 7 September 2016 at 08:44 TO: 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, gtheo <gtheo@xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl>> CC: "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>" <gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org>> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS That legal review was undertaken more than a year ago. STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPP LLP | WWW.MSK.COM<http://WWW.MSK.COM> [1<http://www.msk.com/>] 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. FROM: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>] SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 10:44 AM TO: Metalitz, Steven; gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Partially. As the thick whois WG clearly recommended that a legal review be undertaken with regard to the impact of any implementation on local privacy legislations, the question of available excemptions may well become relevant to such a review. Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 16:38 schrieb Metalitz, Steven: Agree that this issue is outside the scope of this group. STEVEN J. METALITZ | PARTNER, THROUGH HIS PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION T: 202.355.7902 | met@msk.com<mailto:met@msk.com> MITCHELL SILBERBERG & KNUPPLLP | WWW.MSK.COM<http://WWW.MSK.COM> [1<http://www.msk.com/>] 1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036 THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. FROM: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org>] ON BEHALF OF Volker Greimann SENT: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 9:28 AM TO: gtheo CC: gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org> SUBJECT: Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] [for iRT review] Draft Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET, and .JOBS Well, I agree that we need a workable process for obtaining an excemption, but that is a discussion for another group, I guess. An Implementation Advisory Group, if you will. I hear there may soon be another one of those. ;-) Best, Volker Am 07.09.2016 um 15:18 schrieb gtheo: That might be a way forward Volker. https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en<https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/waiver-request-process-2013-09-13-en> However, that one wasn't exactly "speedy". Took me two years to obtain one. The invalidation of Safe Harbor was rather sudden. Some governments displayed the last 12 months that things can change at record speed law wise. I guess the problem boils down to this. -Sudden changes in law putting migrated Registrar businesses at risk. -The procedure can take much longer than the proposed timeline. -There might be Registrars that cannot migrate. I am not sure, but I have the feeling that it is not up to the IRT to fix this as it is out of scope. Though Registrars who cannot migrate, we might want to mention RDAP. Even though that is already mentioned in the RDAP spec when it comes to Thin WHOIS Registries. Theo Volker Greimann schreef op 2016-09-07 01:24 PM: How about adding: "Further procedures for resolving conflicts with local privacy laws are included in the 2013 RAA Data Retention specification"? Am 07.09.2016 um 12:52 schrieb gtheo: Hello all, _1. Where a conflict exists between local privacy laws and requirements included in this Policy, ICANN's Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Laws is available for Registry Operators and Registrars. _ We didn't get around this yesterday, wich is fine. Let us see if we can have some discussion in advance about this as I am struggling with this section for a few now. The text itself is good, as in, this is what I expected after the discussions we had about this in the last few months. What I am not sure off is how to deal with this in the sense of moving forward to the comment period. The procedure is not working, but is outside of this IRT to address, yet this IRT relies on it. Are we going to put in a footnote in the report that says something like: _Outside the scope of the IRT to address, but we wish the Registrars and Registrants the best of luck!_ Thanks, Theo Dennis Chang schreef op 2016-09-02 02:05 AM: Dear Thick Whois Policy Implementation Review Team, Attached for your review is our initial draft of the Thick Whois Transition Policy for .COM, .NET and .JOBS. The draft Policy includes the various elements discussed in our recent meeting on this topic. As you review the draft, you will find bracketed text in four sections: sections 2.9, 2.10, 3.4 and 3.5. These sections are bracketed because they reference the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy and the Registration Data Access Protocol gTLD Profile. As you may be aware, a Request for Reconsideration (RfR) was submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group in August regarding the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy [1 [1]] that was published on 26 July 2016. The RfR objects to the inclusion of RDAP in the Consensus Policy. While the RfR goes through its own process, we thought it was important to continue progressing the implementation project with the goal of opening Public Comment in September and announcing the Transition Policy by 1 February 2017 per our schedule. Therefore, the text is bracketed as it may need to be revisited pending the resolution of the RfR and we wanted to directly call the IRT's attention to it. We will review all contents of the document at our next IRT meeting as a team but please provide your comments in advance via email if possible. Thank you for your support! -- Kind Regards, Dennis S. 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