Jaap, I agree, and therefore I for example usually always try to use these terms: * ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes o these are the 2-letter codes used for ccTLDs, like "DE" for Germany o these are in Part 1 of "ISO 3166" * ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 Codes o these are the 3-letter codes for countries like "DEU" for Germany o these are also in Part 1 of "ISO 3166" * ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivision Names (NOT the "codes"!) o These are usually states, provinces, districts, etc o these are in Part 2 of "ISO 3166" The "ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivisions" also have "codes" - but we do not protect the CODES but rather the NAMES! Example: There is a subdivision "Bayern" in Germany (Bavaria). The "code" is "DE-BY". But that's not what we protect. We protect the NAME itself: "Bayern". It's one thing how people call these in our working emails. And you are right: we should all be very precise. But we WT members usually know what is meant. When it comes to the AGB we really need to be SUPER precise - and very consistent! So my suggestion for the use in the AGB: * ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes (alternatively: "alpha-2 codes listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard") o the 2-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1 o these are real "codes" and not "names" * ISO 3166 -1 Alpha-3 Codes (alternatively: "alpha-3 codes listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard") o the 3-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1 o these are real "codes" and not "names" * ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names (alternatively: "country subdivision names listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard") o Officially called "principal subdivisions of countries" and located in ISO 3166 Part 2 o Again: here we target the NAME - not the "code" (we target "Bayern" and not "DE-BY") - hence we do not say "Country Subdivision Codes" but "Country Subdivision Names". The 2012 AGB uses "sub-national place name, such as a county, province, or state, listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard" in section 2.2.1.4.2 (3) when it refers to "ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names". ISO calls the CODES (which is not what we want to protect) "codes for identifying principal subdivisions of countries" and in other places "country subdivision codes". I haven't found the term "sub-national place name" in official ISO documents. So while it's clear what is meant - it's not ISO language. So the targeted strings are in my mind: "Country Subdivision Names" - and usually that column is always called "Subdivision Name". We might want to consider to not use "sub-national place name" in the AGB anymore. Thoughts? Thanks, Alexander -----Original Message----- From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jaap Akkerhuis Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2018 3:36 PM To: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items -- remarks about ISO 3166 terminology used A quick scan of the working document shows rather inconsistent use of ISO 3166 related terms. Quite some of these uses stem from citing the AGB. There is not a lot to do about that, we should not change history too much. But for the current document we could do better I hope. Often one reads things like "codes listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard". What really is meant here is "codes listed in the standard ISO 3166 Part 2". What makes this important is that people are confusing the -2 suffix with the length of the code. We should be more careful in using proper terminology and if one wants to use "3166-1" as a shortcut for "ISO 3166 Part 2" it should somewhere be explained. An example of unclear use is a sentence like: "meaningful representations of a country or territory name on the ISO 3166-2 standard" What is really meant here? Country and territory names appear in ISO 3166 Part one, ISO 3166 Part 2 talks about subdivisions only. (It might be quoted from an old AGB so can't be changed, but it is still confusing), Something like "ISO 3166 3-letter codes, country subdivisions (3166 Alpha-2)" becomes quite confusing very fast. in general ISO talks about alpha-3 etc. codes and 3166 Part 1 had alpha-2 and alpha-3 codes. ISO 3166 Part 2 is about codes for subdivision codes. These codes are not related to the alpha-3 codes of Part 1 but consist of alpha-2 codes from part 1 followed by "up to 3 characters". The working document talks about alpha-3 or 2 codes, 2/3 characters, and 2/3 letter codes etc. Most times they seem to be used denoting the same but I'm not always when non-ASCII codes are involved. I know, it is hard to be consistent it the terminology but it is worth the effort. jaap _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5