I agree with Luc and Tim - and some of the other comments on the list. From memory, the purpose of clause 3.7.7.3 was to say that SOMEONE has to be responsible for a domain name, regardless of whether they are accredited under the Specification (and resultant documentation) or not. So for Luc, I don't imagine that he will have 'licensed' the domain name for his aunt. He was simply being a kind nephew - well done. But if his aunt goes on a hijacking spree, then Luc is in the frame, unless he reveals all of his aunt's contact details and lets the relevant authorities take action against his aunt. The purpose of the clause at the higher level - to ensure that someone takes responsibility and, if they won't reveal contact details, then they should take the rap and, I think we would argue, stop the use of that domain name by the miscreant. That does two things - it protects privacy since the party's details don't have to be revealed. But if they aren't revealed, then they are stopped. So the big tasks ahead include determining what the specification means by 'accrediting' a p/p service (acknowledging that they may be defined differently, with commensurate requirements), acknowledging that anyone (including those outside of accredited parties) who does let someone else use 'their' name (they being the registered name holder) are nevertheless responsible. Now to start work on both what is/are a p/p service(s) and what the tests should be for an 'accreditation'. Holly On 12/02/2014, at 4:42 AM, Luc SEUFER wrote:
I have the exact same opinion as Tim regarding this clause.
As a matter of fact, my aunt is a licensee of a domain name that I have registered for her and for which I am the registrant in the whois database. By doing so I had/have no intention of acting as a p/p provider, but merely to appoint as registrant a tad more knowledgeable person than my aunt for technical matters. i.e. if she got the email address based on this domain name hacked and you would like to inform her, I am certain you will prefer to speak to me.
Luc
On Feb 11, 2014, at 18:09, Tim Ruiz <tim@godaddy.com<mailto:tim@godaddy.com>> wrote:
Again, IMHO, 3.7.7.3 was left in the RAA because it does not necessarily refer to P/P services (which now has its own specification). Any registrant may license a domain name to someone else to use and have no intention of operating a p/p service. If so, this clause informs them (because it has to be in our registration agreements) that they have certain obligations.
I don't believe this clause is any part of what we are here to do. If once we are done Registrars, Board, or Staff have concerns about this clause then that may become a topic for the next round of RAA negotiations.
Tim
On Feb 11, 2014, at 11:31 AM, "Margie Milam" <Margie.Milam@icann.org<mailto:Margie.Milam@icann.org>> wrote:
Also— the P/P Specification from the 2013 RAA also refers to licensee:
1.1 "P/P Customer" means, regardless of the terminology used by the P/P Provider, the licensee, customer, beneficial user, beneficiary, or other recipient of Privacy Services and Proxy Services
All the best,
Margie
From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Margie Milam Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:24 AM To: Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Hi Volker & All-
I am not aware of a definition of licensing in the 2013 RAA or any of the previous versions.
However, please look at it Section 3.4.1.5 from the 2013 RAA that uses the term “licensee” in the context of proxy registration services:
3.4.1.5 the name, postal address, e-mail address, and voice telephone number provided by the customer of any privacy service or licensee of any proxy registration service, in each case, offered or made available by Registrar or its Affiliates in connection with each registration. Effective on the date that ICANN fully implements a Proxy Accreditation Program established in accordance with Section 3.14, the obligations under this Section 3.4.1.5 will cease to apply as to any specific category of data (such as postal address) that is expressly required to be retained by another party in accordance with such Proxy Accreditation Program.
Margie
From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:16 AM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Hi Margie,
as discussed earlier today, there seems to be disagreement over what the term "licensing" means and if it should apply to privacy or proxy services.
Volker Am 11.02.2014 17:08, schrieb Margie Milam: All-
I think the language you are looking for is in the body of the 2013 RAA under Section 3.7.7.3 below:
3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and the identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.
Margie
From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of James M. Bladel Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:21 AM To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Marika Konings; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal
No. This language does not exist in the 2013 RAA.
http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/approved-with-specs-27jun13...
J.
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 8:06 To: Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es>> Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal
So it’s not in the RAA then is it?
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:59 PM To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Michele, the reference comes from a document that was produced in February 2009, so presumably it is referring to an earlier version of the RAA.
Best regards,
Marika
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 14:56 To: "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es>>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>> Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Gema
Which clause in the RAA stipulates this?
I’m looking at the 2013 RAA’s proxy / privacy specification and I cannot see this.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:35 PM To: Marika Konings Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Yes, I´ve seen this, Marika, but it only defines “relay” and in a very confusing way, mixing it with “reveal”.
5) Relay Information Requests See study # 20 for this term’s use in context. Problems arise from time to time in connection with registered names. Allegations of actionable harm require copyright and trademark owners, law enforcement officials and others to be able to operate through a proxy or privacy service provider to contact the domain name user. Potential “harms” could include suspected fraud, intellectual property rights infringement, or the infringement of other civil or criminal laws. To support the relay of information requests, service providers must have reliable and timely means of communicating with their domain licensees. The ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement stipulates that the proxy registrant reveal the identity of the domain licensee upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for resulting harm.
So, I insist definitions of “relay”, “reveal” and “publication” are included in the “Grouping of Charter Questions” paper or else, referenced to a document that provides its meaning in the context of Proxy-Privacy Services.
Thank you again and best regards,
Gema
De: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org] Enviado el: martes, 11 de febrero de 2014 13:16 Para: Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria Asunto: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Dear Gema,
I think that refers to the attached document which is also posted on the WG wiki (background documents – see https://community.icann.org/x/XSWfAg).
Best regards,
Marika
From: "<Campillos Gonzalez>", Gema Maria <GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS@minetur.es>> Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 12:50 To: Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>> Subject: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Dear Marika,
Where exactly can I find the definitions for the terms in the heading? In footnote 7 of the “Grouping of Charter Questions” paper, there is a reference to the “Terms of Reference for GNSO Whois Studies (refer to WG Background Documents).”, but I am not able to find that document. Could you please point me to the paper I have to look up?
Thank you so much,
Gema
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