Agree, Stephanie. No one disagrees that LEA input is vital. And Registrars, in particular, have been building a more engaging relationship with LEA/Public Safety over the past year. This stems mostly from our experiences during the 2013 RAA negotiations, where asks were made in private, but later disavowed. I understand the nature of LEA is that they cannot always participate on the record, or speak for their agencies. But it is significantly more helpful when they do. Thanks— J. From: <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:01 To: PPSAI WG <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed approachfor reviewing public comments I agree the input is important, but they should put it on the public record. Stephanie Perrin On 2015-07-22 12:26, Mary Wong wrote: Thanks, Kiran - as with all the comments we are compiling for the WG, the sheer volume could mean that we may have missed it, so we’d appreciate it if this can be clarified. Similarly, and more broadly, as the WG reviews the comments, please let us know if there are responses that we should have included in the templates that we did not. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> -----Original Message----- From: Kiran Malancharuvil <Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com><mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:22 To: Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org><mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> Cc: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com><mailto:michele@blacknight.com>, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed approachfor reviewing public comments Yikes. Let's ask Bobby and Dick what happened there. LEA input is valuable and we should consider it, even if outside the formal public comment process. Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Jul 22, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org><mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> wrote: Hello Kiran and everyone, The PSWG did not seem to have submitted their comments to the PPSAI public comments forum. I checked around internally and do not think they sent it in or published it. As such, ICANN policy staff doesn¹t have any records or copies of it and so whatever PSWG statement was drafted has not been included or reflected in our documents, including the various templates comprising the Public Comment Review Tool. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4889 Email: mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> -----Original Message----- From: <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org><mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Kiran Malancharuvil <Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com><mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 11:58 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com><mailto:michele@blacknight.com> Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org><mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed approachfor reviewing public comments Good question. Since I was loathe to sort through zillions of pages looking for the comments I wanted to read initially, I requested the comments directly from Bobby and he emailed them to me. I don't think Dick has access to this list anymore, but I will ask them to forward a link or attachment and I will pass it along? K Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Jul 22, 2015, at 1:15 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com><mailto:michele@blacknight.com> wrote: Does anyone have a link to their submission? I know they were drafting one, but I don¹t recall seeing it Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/http://blog.blacknight.com/http://www.blacknight.... - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social Random Stuff: http://www.michele.irish/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 On 22/07/2015 04:59, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Kiran Malancharuvil"<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.orgonbehalfofKiranMalancharuvil> <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com><mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.orgonbehalfofKiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com> wrote: Barry, Thanks for your comments. I think you would be interested in the past interventions of Dick Leaning, who was the LE representative on this group until his retirement from Europol on July 1st of this year, and in the public safety working group comment drafted by Bobby Flaim from the FBI and Loreen Kapin from the FTC (with Dick's input). They have statedon multiple occasions that getting a warrant isn't a 15 minute thing. I'll let them speak for themselves but suffice to say that they prefer a system that doesn't require a warrant. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that they've given their recommendations formally. Happy lurking! Kiran Kiran Malancharuvil Policy Counselor MarkMonitor 415-419-9138 (m) Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:12 PM, Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com><mailto:bzs@world.std.com> wrote: I apologize for posting at all since I'm not much involved but I'm sort of surprised at the level of speculation about law enforcement. As an ISP I've been in the middle of this sort of thing. In a nutshell there are large and huge and tiny LEAs and they're all quite different in their response. I've dealt with the FBI who can turn out a proper warrant in about 15 minutes and college campus police (colleges you've heard of) who could be incredibly unprofessional -- one threatened, and I mean angrily threatened, that if I didn't produce the credentials immediately (I stood my ground for a warrant, it was basically cyberstalking) they would "show up at my office". I said they were welcome, I'd make the coffee, and got in touch with the university's general counsel. I could post that interchange but as you can imagine they were horribly embarrassed. Why not get someone from an LEA or two involved even informally rather than speculate? So much of this is in the name of law enforcement yet my impression is that law enforcement per se hasn't been engaged. A DA wouldn't hurt either since they have to build the cases and wield the prosecutorial discretion which is really what you're ultimately trying to support. Sorry, I'll go back to lurking. -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs@TheWorld.com<mailto:bzs@TheWorld.com> | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo* _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg