On August 19, 2015 at 10:27 vgreimann@key-systems.net (Volker Greimann) wrote:
Hi Barry,
this should be seen in the context of the demands for differentiation based upon use of the website, i.e. transactional vs. non-transactional. Whois has no additional benefit for domains used for websites where the ownership information has to be displayed anyway. Hence privacy is more than appropriate for such domains.
Yes but the set of domains in WHOIS is a super-set of the set of domains which reach websites, a much larger super-set. The set of domains with active DNS are somewhere in between the entire WHOIS and websites with contact info in coverage but probably a lot closer to WHOIS since registries tend to default DNS servers on purchase even if only generic. These could be measured fairly easily. But for example domains which are only used for email would be in the DNS but have no website associated. Very common use of domains. And those which reach a website within a jurisdictional domain (in the legal sense) which requires contact information such as you describe for Germany -- less those not in compliance perhaps due to local lax enforcement (not particularly Germany) -- is even smaller, probably much smaller. Also there's the issue of WHOIS and language. Required contact information on a website would presumably be in the owner or marketing target's local language and character set. I don't know or don't remember what the proposed requirements vis a vis language and character set is for (a new) WHOIS. I suppose I could go read the proposal again. Is that important? There are other localization issues such as how postal addresses are formatted or even what constitutes a satisfactory address for website contact information by local law vs WHOIS (as proposed.) Well, we all know this. But in terms of the website contact info is it satisfactory to the purpose? Are you for example ok with contact info on a website only in Tagalu or Xhosa? As I said earlier it would be more productive to work forward from use cases rather than various individuals' abstract notion of "contact information". For example is the goal to have enough information available to initiate legal service on a domain owner? Or to market to a domain owner? Or to just send them a Valentine's day card (N.B. tomorrow, 8/20, is Chinese Valentine's day)? I know, all of that...easy hand-wave. This is why I take the more deconstructed view to just ask IETF to add a new WHOIS RR and let owners (optionally) put their info into their DNS zones as a public-facing database perhaps with some suggestions on format, language, etc. And that reduces the entire problem to what is required of registries at point of sale and update and by implication ICANN, plus access issues.
Am 18.08.2015 um 19:50 schrieb Barry Shein:
On August 18, 2015 at 15:26 vgreimann@key-systems.net (Volker Greimann) wrote:
So there is absolutely no need for whois in Europe.
(IF the domain is associated with a website?)
So make WHOIS just a DNS record maintained by the domain owner however they see fit, or not.
If someone finds that inadequate they can proceed with whatever they would do to obtain customer records from any company in any situation such as request the records from the source.
For DNS that's a registrar or ICANN, but for a phone number for example that would be the phone company or source of the phone number -- if found in a newspaper ask the newspaper if they have more contact information for an advertiser and would they be willing to share that information.
Other sources likely exist, try googling the domain name for its owner or search sources such as corporate listings or legal cases.
And if that response is inadequate to their needs seek authority from a court of competent jurisdiction or similar (trade regulator, etc.) to compel disclosure from whomever one sees as a potentially productive source.
I keep coming back to the question of what are the use cases for WHOIS?
Not just "to find the owner of a domain", but for what purposes and how and why that should be supported? And to what level of (enforced) quality?
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